How impressive is PW as a coach?

[Crewton]

10 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Listening to Talksport2 earlier talking about Ipswich's impressive 2 seasons. They've got a coach that's impressive. Already the talk is of him being head-hunted by 'higher' Prem clubs.

Like Graham Potter was? 

[Crewton]

11 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Not very impressive. 

But let's see if he can adapt to the championship. He has quite the record of relegation but hopefully he has learned. That would be more impressive. 

So it takes no coaching ability at all to achieve 4 promotions from League 1?

Blimey, I've missed my vocation!

[The_Sheriff]

Most underrated gaffer we have had in my lifetime.

 

[cannable]

When we had Clough he had us fit, with loads of good footballers, played nice football but were dog defensively and couldn’t defend a set piece for s****.

Warne will have us fit, loads of battlers, set us up we’ll, battle hard and be god from set-pieces at both ends.

I feel as though he’ll end up setting up the next manager for success, as Clough did.

[Nuwtfly]

8 hours ago, sage said:

Shoestring budget? We had the highest wage bill in League One 

Oh come on, we wasn’t able to pay a fee for any players! You can’t tell me we were the big spenders

[Dimmu]

9 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

I think we won promotion through matching/surpassing the physical attributes of our opponents and seeing our individual quality pull through.

I don’t think we won promotion through tactical nous or coaching a team of mediocre League One players to perform better than the sum of their parts.

Bit of a contradiction there Bris. First, you describe a big part of tactics and in the next sentence, you dismiss it. 

To answer the original question:

I'm not sure if talking only about Warne is fair as coaching is strongly a team effort.
 I've seen Warneball being called physical, so why did he have a midfield of Hourihane and Bird for about half of the season? Or that Warneball is putting crosses in? What kind of tactics would you choose if you had Collins upfront? Crosses maybe? Or the other way around, did Didzy score countless goals because we put a lot of crosses in? Nope, we played to his strengths. If I'd describe Warneball to an outsider, I'd call it pragmatic, fluid, and mixable while using our strengths and making the most of our opponent's weaknesses. Attention to detail is a strength when we talk about football management.

Just to highlight how fluid our tactics are: I've seen us defending with 5-3-2, 5-4-1, 4-5-1, 4-4-1-1 all in the same game. Well, we all have because it happened often when Bradley was brought on. 

I think he has only two aims when setting his tactics. Firstly, how to get the most out of the striker (how much Didzy, Waggy, Collins, and Gayle have scored, I think he's got that right). The second aim is how to help our keeper to keep a clean sheet. (The least goals conceded in EFL is some achievement). If these two are not about tactics, then what is? And tactics need coaching. With confidence and some experience, I claim that is not an easy part of coaching. 

So, tactics are a massive part of coaching and they have excelled. Another would be increasing the player's ability and that's tougher to measure. I haven't seen as fit team as the current one is in ages and it's part of improving the player's ability. Yes, it may have caused some injuries, but that's football. Also, they managed to teach Sibley to play as LWB. On the first try, he was horrible at it but played okay as fullback when he had a player in front of him. It's a testament to Sibbo and the coaching team, and during the run-in, his performances as LWB turned out to be one of the developmental highlights.

It'll sure be an interesting summer ahead. Will we build a midfield like Hourihane-Bird or Adams-Smith-Thommo? They don't have much in common, but the question is, will they continue to be the ones who'll be sacrificed when we aim to be at our best in both boxes?

I think Warne has shown to be an excellent manager, who seems to be able to build a bunch of individuals into a cohesive group and I really appreciate that. At the same time, my personal preference would be much sexier, quick short-passing champagne football. Maybe it'll come when we have the players for it.

Edited May 5 by Dimmu

[MadAmster]

9 hours ago, sage said:

Shoestring budget? We had the highest wage bill in League One 

Total wage bill of £17M of which the players cost around £7M. That £17M is well above the total turnover of almost all L1 clubs and I'd estimate the £7M would beat the total budget of half a dozen L1 clubs.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

9 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

The OP asked a question. People have offered answers.

Get out,it's merely an excuse for the whingers to briefly crawl out of their boxes after being firmly placed in them after promotion.

I swear some people are genuinely upset that warne achieved it with us.

 

Edited May 5 by kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong

[angieram]

6 minutes ago, Dimmu said:

Bit of a contradiction there Bris. First, you describe a big part of tactics and in the next sentence, you dismiss it. 

To answer the original question:

I'm not sure if talking only about Warne is fair as coaching is strongly a team effort.
 I've seen Warneball being called physical, so why did he have a midfield of Hourihane and Bird for about half of the season? Or that Warneball is putting crosses in? What kind of tactics would you choose if you had Collins upfront? Crosses maybe? Or the other way around, did Didzy score countless goals because we put a lot of crosses in? Nope, we played to his strengths. If I'd describe Warneball to an outsider, I'd call it pragmatic, fluid, and mixable while using our strengths and making the most of our opponent's weaknesses. Attention to detail is a strength when we talk about football management.

Just to highlight how fluid our tactics are: I've seen us defending with 5-3-2, 5-4-1, 4-5-1, 4-4-1-1 all in the same game. Well, we all have because it happened often when Bradley was brought on. 

I think he has only two aims when setting his tactics. Firstly, how to get the most out of the striker (how much Didzy, Waggy, Collins, and Gayle have scored, I think he's got that right). The second aim is how to help our keeper to keep a clean sheet. (The least goals conceded in EFL is some achievement). If these two are not about tactics, then what is? And tactics need coaching. With confidence and some experience, I claim that is not an easy part of coaching. 

So, tactics are a massive part of coaching and they have excelled. Another would be increasing the player's ability and that's tougher to measure. I haven't seen as fit team as the current one is in ages and it's part of improving the player's ability. Yes, it may have caused some injuries, but that's football. Also, they managed to teach Sibley to play as LWB. On the first try, he was horrible at it but played okay as fullback when he had a player in front of him. It's a testament to Sibbo and the coaching team, and during the run-in, his performances as LWB turned out to be one of the developmental highlights.

It'll sure be an interesting summer ahead. Will we build a midfield like Hourihane-Bird or Adams-Smith-Thommo? They don't have much in common, but the question is, will they continue to be the ones who'll be sacrificed when we aim to be at our best in both boxes?

I think Warne has shown to be an excellent manager, who seems to be able to build a bunch of individuals into a cohesive group and I really appreciate that. At the same time, my personal preference would be much sexier, quick short-passing champagne football. Maybe it'll come when we have the players for it.

Great analysis,  Dimmu.

[8Leeds]

I don’t think there’s many managers that could have built a team with as much togetherness as Paul has. 

I’ve not always enjoyed our style of play and at times felt it limited some of our players but it’s gotten results and seen us promoted. 

We’re able to defend from corners, something we’ve struggled with for an age. We’re also a threat from them as well now which is nice to see.

Most managers seem to be of the mindset of get short term success to hopefully get a move higher up the pyramid, Paul gives me the impression he thinks differently, his mind is  completely on Derby and it’s long term success. 

Cheers Paul and the team for an exciting end to the season. The scenes from the end of the Carlisle game will live long in the memory. 

[TomTom92]

Think how Warne does in the championship will determine how we rate him in years to come.

Good on him for getting us up. But he’s only achieved what was expected of him. Hoping he continue to keep building and can do what Nigel couldn’t in getting us up to the PL (in due course).

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Nuwtfly said:

Oh come on, we wasn’t able to pay a fee for any players! You can’t tell me we were the big spenders

Wages and agents fees? Top of the league?

[Crewton]

54 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Total wage bill of £17M of which the players cost around £7M. That £17M is well above the total turnover of almost all L1 clubs and I'd estimate the £7M would beat the total budget of half a dozen L1 clubs.

Fortunately, we beat 22 League 1 clubs in the only metric that matters.

And yet, here we are again having a debate about Warne's coaching ability one week after those scenes against Carlisle......

[jono]

1 hour ago, MadAmster said:

Total wage bill of £17M of which the players cost around £7M. That £17M is well above the total turnover of almost all L1 clubs and I'd estimate the £7M would beat the total budget of half a dozen L1 clubs.

We had rather big crowds compared to other L1 clubs which makes it rational rather than something to flog us with. We are now in a league where our turnover and budget will likely be middle of the pack. Take out some minnows and the parachute clubs. 

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, jono said:

We had rather big crowds compared to other L1 clubs which makes it rational rather than something to flog us with. We are now in a league where our turnover and budget will likely be middle of the pack. Take out some minnows and the parachute clubs. 

Our gross revenue will be right behind the parachute brigade, no?,  because of the gate.  (Depending on sponsorship revenue I suppose. )
But our expenditure on the squad will be middle of the pack imo - unless we find an investor who’s minted   
 

WTS !

 

[Caerphilly Ram]

In answer to the OP’s question, and as with everything, it’s not as binary as some on either side of the argument would have us believe. 

Warne himself is keen to share the credit for any success he has with his colleagues and players. I suspect Barker does a lot of the coaching on the grass along with Hamshaw, but Warne definitely plays a part. Both Bird and Warne commented on the additional coaching which led to Bird’s improved finishing this season so there must be something there.

We’ve seen a number of players adapt to new/different roles and positions during his tenure. Sibley at lb/lwb, Smith at rb, Wilson who many said couldn’t play as a rb filled in admirably at the end of the season as the examples that stick out in my mind.

We’ve defended as a team and achieved the best defensive record in the whole EFL this season, that has to be down to some sort of coaching surely rather than the “our players are just better” that certain posters keep trotting out. For a defence that suffered constant changes due to injury and the switching from 3 to 4 at the back to be so consistent smacks of some sort of tactical organisation despite the occasional erratic moment.

His man management and the team unity has been cited by a number of the squad as being a big factor in their success this season. Does that count as coaching? 
 

And yet there were games (more last season than this? 🤔) when an opposition manager tweaked something in the game and Warne didn’t react. There’s the much discussed lack of youth integration and development into the first team, does that count against his accolades as a coach? The game management and lack of control in midfield has irked many, is that a failing of his coaching (or is it a tactical choice which he is happy to take for pragmatic reasons?) 

For me Warne has some strengths, despite what some are desperate to deny, and he has some weaknesses which are also ignored by some of the fan base. He has delivered a measure of success this season and we get to see whether he can carry that into the championship in the coming months…fun times innit 😁 

Edited May 5 by Caerphilly Ram

[Nuwtfly]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Wages and agents fees? Top of the league?

All of the money we did have had to go into wages. We literally didn’t spend a fee on a player. We had weird loans and promotions clauses and all kinds of creativity going on. How else could you describe the other than shoe string? We weren’t able to compete with Bolton and Pompey for players - we even got out manoeuvred by Charlton!

There are things that Warne can be fairly criticised on but I don’t think managing our budget can be one. Credit where credit is due!

Edited May 5 by Nuwtfly

[Srg]

3 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

All of the money we did have had to go into wages. We literally didn’t spend a fee on a player. We had weird loans and promotions clauses and all kinds of creativity going on. How else could you describe the other than shoe string? We weren’t able to compete with Bolton and Pompey for players - we even got out manoeuvred by Charlton!

There are things that Warne can be fairly criticised on but I don’t think managing our budget can be one. Credit where credit is due!

There was also a significant portion of that budget that was taken up by players he didn’t sign himself, nearly all of which were old. Not a criticism on anyone, we all know the situation, but given the option I doubt those are the attributes he would’ve spent the budget on. 

[Ramarena]

You can’t deny that he’s done well for us and achieved the objective set. 4 promotions from league 1 is a very impressive accolade.

There are plenty of questions about how effective his management will be at Champ level, but he’s earned the right to be given a go at it and see how he fares.

Obviously there are frustrations with elements of his management. But we’re going to need to overlook them for the time being and hope he can make us stable in the Championship.

[MadAmster]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

Fortunately, we beat 22 League 1 clubs in the only metric that matters.

And yet, here we are again having a debate about Warne's coaching ability one week after those scenes against Carlisle......

I actually think, from what I observe in games, albeit 80% via RamsTV, and from snippets they show of training that Barker does more of the "hands on" stuff and PW is more the management type, an enabler. Deciding on the direction, making everything necessary to the coaching staff, doing the HR stuff etc. He does do some of the coaching but I get the impression that Barker is the main hands on guy.

I'm not applauding or decrying PW, more looking at it as a team effort. A gaffer who decides who, what, where and how and a staff who implement it.