League Table since October defeat at Stevenage

[Crewton]

44 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

If we’d played football and used midfield all season instead of “whack it wide and cross it”, we’d have been top yonks and yonks ago.

I'm not so sure about that. The way most teams set up to play us, the midfield area tends to be compressed so that playing through the opposition requires near flawless 1/2 touch football and strikers with pace off the mark. I'm not convinced that we've had the right players to play that way, particularly with injuries to Bird, JJ and Gayle for long periods. If you've got any evidence to back up that claim, I'd be interested to see it.

I think it's more likely that if we'd not shown rare defensive flaws at key times in certain games (Wigan, Portsmouth, Charlton, Wycombe, Peterborough & Shrewsbury at home, Northampton, Cheltenham, Barnsley and Shrewsbury away, for example) and took even a small % of the great chances that we've missed, we'd be anything between 10 and 20 points better off, but that would be expecting L1 players to be as consistent as elite players.

[Anag Ram]

I think the combination works best. 4-3-3 so midfield doesn’t get overrun.

Difficulty there has been getting the right combination. Adams and Smith has worked well lately but in Bird’s absence we don’t have an automatic third (Thompson was okay on Saturday but Orient were rubbish)

If we had Bird with Smith and Adams for protection, we’d have quicker ball to the wide players so crosses are more effective.

Ideally we’d have slick first time passing, except our players have the limitations of League One quality so sometimes passes go astray. That’s not ideal in a tense, must win run-in so it doesn’t happen.

Pragmatism has worked this far. The target was promotion and we are within touching distance.

 

[DRBee]

2 hours ago, Ellafella said:

Interesting; so what happened? Or is it just a coincidence? I recall we lost at Stevenage, fans were unhappy, Hourihane entered into a heated discussion with fans, Mr Clowes gave the Pom-pommed one the vote of confidence and the rest is history. 
So what does the table mean? 
My take on where Derby are headed…On balance, we should get auto from this point but I’m not taking it for granted. So if we do,  am I confident of our next season? I have to say I’m not. I’m not confident because I think our current blend of football is not capable of producing sufficient goals in open play at Championship level. It may be considered bad timing to have this discussion now, but that’s what I see ahead. So, if and when we get there, it’s going to be intriguing. 

Its fine to have this discussion now despite the blind-faithers.

Another question that affects our confidence for next year ( whatever division we are in ) is how to explain the regular large variation in the quality of our performances within a few games. The Stevenage performance itself, our FA cup exit and the recent performance at Northampton and  a few others show how inconsistent our performances can be. Lets hope Cambridge wont be another example. Warne could easily use our depressing number if injuries to explain this inconsistency but Warne and his management team have to take some responsibility given their role in team selection , formation  and player motivation.

[Crewton]

55 minutes ago, DRBee said:

Its fine to have this discussion now despite the blind-faithers.

Another question that affects our confidence for next year ( whatever division we are in ) is how to explain the regular large variation in the quality of our performances within a few games. The Stevenage performance itself, our FA cup exit and the recent performance at Northampton and  a few others show how inconsistent our performances can be. Lets hope Cambridge wont be another example. Warne could easily use our depressing number if injuries to explain this inconsistency but Warne and his management team have to take some responsibility given their role in team selection , formation  and player motivation.

It's fine, but it's tedious.

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 hour ago, DRBee said:

Its fine to have this discussion now despite the blind-faithers.

Another question that affects our confidence for next year ( whatever division we are in ) is how to explain the regular large variation in the quality of our performances within a few games. The Stevenage performance itself, our FA cup exit and the recent performance at Northampton and  a few others show how inconsistent our performances can be. Lets hope Cambridge wont be another example. Warne could easily use our depressing number if injuries to explain this inconsistency but Warne and his management team have to take some responsibility given their role in team selection , formation  and player motivation.

What’s the qualifier for the phrase “blind-faithers”? What is served by making generalised comments about other members of the fan base?

Some people are able to take this season as it is, see we’ve won more than we’ve lost, scored lots of goals, conceded the equal lowest number of goals in the league and put ourselves within touching distance of automatic promotion, is their “blind faith” being repaid? People called for patience citing things like the need for the team to gel, Warne and his staff’s previous experience of promotion at this level being an advantage, the quality available in our squad telling in time…is that “blind faith”? 

Some people have concerns about what will happen next season, should they be labelled “wrist slashers” for thinking only the worst will happen? Or should it be acknowledged that there could be grounds for those concerns based on our inconsistency at times this season, the need for further recruitment, the manager’s previous record at the level above etc?
 

It’s all opinions, some of which have been proven correct some of which have been disproved so far this season. Generalising labels at any section of the fan base just seems unnecessary to me. 

Edited April 15 by Caerphilly Ram

[On the Ram Page]

Hopefully we can make promotion. If so, we will all be “blind-faithers” for next season, both the optimistic and the pessimistic. Until we know what our squad will be how can anyone predict how we will do. 
 

I’m an optimist!

I think the management team have shown enough flexibility over the last few months for me to be optimistic they will adapt to the Championship. Paul Warne has shown at times he can be ruthless and I expect several departures this summer. I also commend him recruiting the right “type” (much to many people’s dismay), who are good team players, rather than pot hunters, wage chasers (we’ve had too many of those over the years!). I think our dressing room has been strong due to the characters he has recruited.

I will be very pleasantly surprised if we do an Ipswich, but who knows till we get there. One thing I do know is Warne and co will work tirelessly to try to achieve success.

[Van der MoodHoover]

5 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

I think the time to have this discussion is over the summer. The time to be worried is mid-August if we haven't bought anyone in.

Imagine what we would say about Forest Fans if they were in this position talking about next season.

Surely if Forest were talking now about how they'll get on in the championship next season we'd be complimentary about their realism.......😉

[DavesaRam]

5 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Would we? Does that style of play suit our top scorer James Collins?

What about our second top goal scorer NML? Most of his goal contributions have come from out wide haven't they?

Not saying that the way we play is brilliant or anything but a change to the style that you have suggested pretty much negates most of attacking threat, the one that has us as 4th top goal scorers this season I hasten to add...

 

Playing wide and  crossing into the box is perfectly valid until it becomes the only option, and yes we have benefitted from it. But an awful lot of our defeats and stalemates have come from just that, especially when it is combined with a deliberate avoidance of midfield. As with Northampton and Wycombe, all the opposition have to do is stifle our wing backs and we are stuffed. And earlier in the season all the crosses in the world are no use if either no-one us in there, or if they sail over the heads of the few who do eventually turn up.

The evidence is there - when we have addressed these issues we have gone on a run of good results, even though our goals have predominantly come from crosses.

And since the Stevenage “fans rebellion” Paul Warne has shown signs of listening and changing, and fair play to him for that, because we have been much better as a result.  Have every hope for the last two matches.

[G STAR RAM]

10 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

Playing wide and  crossing into the box is perfectly valid until it becomes the only option, and yes we have benefitted from it. But an awful lot of our defeats and stalemates have come from just that, especially when it is combined with a deliberate avoidance of midfield. As with Northampton and Wycombe, all the opposition have to do is stifle our wing backs and we are stuffed. And earlier in the season all the crosses in the world are no use if either no-one us in there, or if they sail over the heads of the few who do eventually turn up.

The evidence is there - when we have addressed these issues we have gone on a run of good results, even though our goals have predominantly come from crosses.

And since the Stevenage “fans rebellion” Paul Warne has shown signs of listening and changing, and fair play to him for that, because we have been much better as a result.  Have every hope for the last two matches.

The Northampton and Wycombe results both came as a result of profligacy infront of goal.

If teams as poor as them have been able to stifle us, it's strange that much better teams have been unable to.

As for Warne listening to the 'fans rebellion' I've seen you say it a few times and there is absolutely no way he made any changes to please the fans, and you're only kidding yourself if you actually believe he did.

[On the Ram Page]

25 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The Northampton and Wycombe results both came as a result of profligacy infront of goal.

If teams as poor as them have been able to stifle us, it's strange that much better teams have been unable to.

As for Warne listening to the 'fans rebellion' I've seen you say it a few times and there is absolutely no way he made any changes to please the fans, and you're only kidding yourself if you actually believe he did.

Absolutely right

[ariotofmyown]

7 hours ago, Crewton said:

I'm not so sure about that. The way most teams set up to play us, the midfield area tends to be compressed so that playing through the opposition requires near flawless 1/2 touch football and strikers with pace off the mark. I'm not convinced that we've had the right players to play that way, particularly with injuries to Bird, JJ and Gayle for long periods. If you've got any evidence to back up that claim, I'd be interested to see it.

That is a great point and something the more tedious Warne critics often seem to forget: there is another team playing too!

I suppose if you go into the season thinking "we are the famous Derby County, we'll just brush these insignificant little minnows away" then you are probably going to disappointed when you don't win every game 6-0 looking like Brazil in the 70s.

At the same time though, teams have often come to Pride Park and looked to keep it very tight. They did the same once we became good under Steve Mac 1, which is why we never looked quite as amazing under him as when he first joined. As teams set up to frustrate us, our passing style suffered and we really could have done with options to get it wide and crossed into the box in the air.

We became a better team this season away from home, where our style was more suited to teams coming onto us more. We've rarely ever/never been so good away from home, but less people see these games live. We've struggled a bit more away recently, as even the home teams have set up to frustrate us too. The Stevenage nadir was probably because it was Stevenage, maybe the worst team for us to play away to for the way we setup.

Even on Saturday, we raced into a 2 goal lead, never looked in any trouble at all, yet people are genuinely concerned we didn't score from open play! Should we have thrown men recklessly forward, risking a counter attack, but hoping one of those extra players could have converted at least on of the many crosses flashed across the goal? I guess Saturday doesn't really count though, as it was "only" Leighton Orient, "the sort of team we should be beating". Even though they have taken points off our promotion rivals when we've beaten them twice.

As other posters have said, it's a shame that some posters seem to have taken so little joy from what could be our first promotion in nearly 20 years. I don't know where this purity in football took hold. After what we've been thru, you'd think people would be even more thankful for potential success.

I don't remember any of it when we went up with Billy. It's like West Ham fans who want Moyes gone...these are glory years for West Ham. They won a European Trophy last year and have barely got close to winning anything in decades.

Anyway, big thanks to Warne and his team for getting us this close.

 

[DavesaRam]

16 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

The Northampton and Wycombe results both came as a result of profligacy infront of goal.

If teams as poor as them have been able to stifle us, it's strange that much better teams have been unable to.

As for Warne listening to the 'fans rebellion' I've seen you say it a few times and there is absolutely no way he made any changes to please the fans, and you're only kidding yourself if you actually believe he did.

My apologies, G-Star. It is my opinion, a d expressing our opinions is what this forum runs on for all of us. But it doesn’t mean that I insist what my opinion is right.

I have received a few pelters since last Saturday, so to make sure everybody is happy after the next match thread, could somebody kindly post a list of permitted opinions, please? It would be really helpful.

[ariotofmyown]

18 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

And since the Stevenage “fans rebellion” Paul Warne has shown signs of listening and changing, and fair play to him for that, because we have been much better as a result.

@DavesaRam the above is not an opinion. You are prestenting it as what actually happened. When you are challenged on it, you then can't use the tired defence of "isn't this forum supposed to be about opinions?"

That is a poor defence when someone gives an opinion, then is unable to provide anything to back it up. It's an even worse defence in response to something that has been claimed as factual.

[Wolfie]

1 hour ago, DavesaRam said:

I have received a few pelters since last Saturday, so to make sure everybody is happy after the next match thread, could somebody kindly post a list of permitted opinions, please? It would be really helpful.

Not posting offensive twadlle like this might be a start...

 "my heart sank when I saw the team sheet, because like a bad smell, Bradley was back in. My only surprise was that Warne's other boyfriend Hourihane wasn't starting"

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

My apologies, G-Star. It is my opinion, a d expressing our opinions is what this forum runs on for all of us. But it doesn’t mean that I insist what my opinion is right.

I have received a few pelters since last Saturday, so to make sure everybody is happy after the next match thread, could somebody kindly post a list of permitted opinions, please? It would be really helpful.

Once again, as per your last reply, not sure why you are apologising?

As you say this is a forum for for opinions and I think it's quite acceptable to challenge/have your own opinions challenged.

I don't think I've said anything out of turn or abusive to you and, if I did, I'd have no problem with you pointing it out to me.

As for receiving pelters since last Saturday, once again, as long as there were no personal insults, I think you fully deserved them for what you posted. It was not an opinion that you gave, just a crass insult about two of our players and our manager. I'd suggest that if you're going to take the hump when you get called out on posts like that, it may be a good idea to consider what you post more carefully in the future rather than what people do and don't find acceptable.

As I said in my first post, I enjoy reading your posts, just feel on this occasion you overstepped the mark. 

[DavesaRam]

6 hours ago, Wolfie said:

Not posting offensive twadlle like this might be a start...

 "my heart sank when I saw the team sheet, because like a bad smell, Bradley was back in. My only surprise was that Warne's other boyfriend Hourihane wasn't starting"

What motivated that comment was that no matter what was happening on the pitch, Warne would virtually always bring Bradley on, usually as his first substitution, even if we couldn't score for toffee and were chasing the game. Whether it was because of an obligation play Bradley as often as he could, or because he insisted on using a back 3 even though it hadn't worked for most of the season (indeed has only started to work since Adams has arrived) I don't know. And secondly, even though he would go match after match without achieving much at all, Hourihane seemed to be first name on the team sheet every week, while other players who did produce the goods, kept on getting subbed off or dropped to the bench. 

I know after Wycombe Warne said he needed to change things up a bit, but I was at the outside bar when the team news came out, and there was quite a noticeable collective groan, including several "Oh no, Bradley's back in", so I am not on my own. And my comments were based on experience. Also, against Wycombe the players didn't bring everything onto the [itch, let alone leave it all there, but much of our defeat was down to the way the team was set up to play. However I am glad to say I was wrong, because the team played well, and controlled the match from start to finish.

Earlier in the matchday thread I mentioned that I had watched a Youtube video of Chris Martin's 97 goals for the club, and stated categorically that I didn't mention it because I wanted Martin back at the club, (I don't) but because I would love us to be playing more in the manner of Stevie Mac 1 than we do at the moment. For most of the season, we have had to score close to 100% of our chances otherwise we drop points, because we rarely control or dominate matches. I would much rather end up with the points as a result of dominating the match, rather than scrape through by converting all of the few chances we do make. We are heading in the right direction, again since the arrival of Adams, so maybe I should curb the disappointment when it looks like a poor team selection. And despite my concerns pre-match, I yelled myself hoarse on Saturday once I got to my seat.

Lets draw a line under this and move forwards. Here's to whoever is in the squad for next Saturday's visit to Cambridge.

Edited April 16 by DavesaRam

[RadioactiveWaste]

On 15/04/2024 at 13:42, Van der MoodHoover said:

Surely if Forest were talking now about how they'll get on in the championship next season we'd be complimentary about their realism.......😉

I'm pretty sure they'd be hilariously unrealistic about just how they'd do the championship (oh the good players will stay because they love forest, the bad players will be sold for huge profits, everyone will feel privileged to play at the "world famous" city ground " etc etc...

[SamUltraRam]

Updated to include recent fixtures

We've conceded just 22 goals in 31 games and scored 55

[ariotofmyown]

33 minutes ago, SamUltraRam said:

Updated to include recent fixtures

We've conceded just 22 goals in 31 games and scored 55

It's the sort of thing that could happen when a new manager brings in quite a few players during his first close season. It takes a while to get things to gel, then things start to come together.

Pretty sure the promotions under The Bald Eagle and Wee Billy were similar...lots of new players, slow start, then momentum kept building. Obviously, they both joined during the summer unlike Warne, but perhaps a little patience is needed to get some success.

Of course, it doesn't always work, but changing things regularly at the first sign of trouble is a very expensive strategy. Alas, we have no experience of this happening at Derby, so I can see why so many people wanted a change!

[plymouthram]

I watched the Portsmouth v Barnsley game on I-Follow last week, Pompey won 3-2 coming from behind. I thought that Barnsley were the better team and Portsmouth's 83rd minute penalty was a dodgy call. That was their 13th penalty scored this season, only Wycombe can match that amount of luck with officials dishing out spot kicks.

If and it's not a big if, the game was drawn or even won by Barnsley the title would still be on for Derby. I look at last season with Plymouth grinding out results when being outplayed and Ipswich grabbing 2nd spot with ease. I feel, even though Pompey are champs, they are not the best equipped side for the Championship next season. Could we get a similar situation next season with Ipswich flying high and Plymouth struggling this season. Could Derby do well next season and Portsmouth struggle ?