Dajaune Brown - loan to Gateshead until end of season

[G STAR RAM]

10 minutes ago, roboto said:

He’ll be so far down the list of our two fit and available strikers at the club…

I think it would be better for him to be with our team, perhaps learn a bit from Dwight Gayle in training and be an impact sub when needed for us.

Is he having an impact when coming on as sub for Gateshead do you know?

[roboto]

52 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Is he having an impact when coming on as sub for Gateshead do you know?

I'm not sure, because there's not been much commentary about his appearances so far. However, he could provide more of an impact here than Collins, TJJ, Waghorn and Washington currently can.

If he was getting more game time down there, then I'd expect us to allow him to continue with that, but getting the odd 10-15 minute cameos is something he could get here and be more useful to us short term.

[G STAR RAM]

9 minutes ago, roboto said:

I'm not sure, because there's not been much commentary about his appearances so far. However, he could provide more of an impact here than Collins, TJJ, Waghorn and Washington currently can.

If he was getting more game time down there, then I'd expect us to allow him to continue with that, but getting the odd 10-15 minute cameos is something he could get here and be more useful to us short term.

Personally I think Barkhuizen or Sibley would be much more reliable players to have as impact subs.

5 or 10 minutes here or there for Brown might give him something to prove though I suppose.

[MaltRam]

I think the attachment to our own youngsters is understandable, but probably taints our view a bit.

If we had been looking to bring in a conference bench warmer in Jan, there would have been little enthusiasm.

Let the lad develope with no pressure this season and come back with a better idea of where he needs to be this summer.

[roboto]

Sometime in life you have to take the opportunities that come your way. If I was Dajaune I'd be trying to get back to Derby and get in the matchday squad.

When he was sent out on loan we had an in form Collins and the prospect of signing another striker before the end of the Jan window, which would've left him with less opportunity and just some minutes in the u21s. However, things have panned out differently, Collins out for a while, our other strikers all injured, we've just signed Gayle up as emergency cover, but there's space for a plan B striker in the squad.

Yes Barks and Sibley might do a job there, but they aren't specialist strikers. Having Gayle as the main threat and Dajaune as his back-up (also learning some tips from the former PL striker) is much more beneficial to us and him, in my opinion.

[Andrew3000]

3 minutes ago, roboto said:

Sometime in life you have to take the opportunities that come your way. If I was Dajaune I'd be trying to get back to Derby and get in the matchday squad.

When he was sent out on loan we had an in form Collins and the prospect of signing another striker before the end of the Jan window, which would've left him with less opportunity and just some minutes in the u21s. However, things have panned out differently, Collins out for a while, our other strikers all injured, we've just signed Gayle up as emergency cover, but there's space for a plan B striker in the squad.

Yes Barks and Sibley might do a job there, but they aren't specialist strikers. Having Gayle as the main threat and Dajaune as his back-up (also learning some tips from the former PL striker) is much more beneficial to us and him, in my opinion.

Agreed. He would be a wildcard, but he's fit, young and strong. Every other striker we have is physically compromised.  I get thar the responsibility could be immense for such a youngster, but this could be managed.  If he performed at all well the benefits are huge for all. If he struggles, it is still a massive learning opportunity that he can grow from, provided he's supported well.

This is a striker crisis.  No one knows if he is ready but he is 'next man up'. Warne talking up the value of a specialist CF on the one hand but also talking about playing Nat or Barks is contradictory.

We at least need the option. What if gayle and waggy break down?

 

Bring him home.  

[Boycie]

In my opinion, if he’s getting 5-10 minutes in the odd game, he might as well be playing in the u21 keeping his confidence up and getting the odd run out for us for 5-10 mins.

I assume they hoped Gateshead would play hIm more?

[CBX1985]

On 24/01/2024 at 10:01, Ghost of Clough said:

Warne opted to use Mendez-Laing in the middle rather than playing John-Jules there. What hope does an academy player have?

The Academy was decimated by administration.  Their performance has been dreadful.  It will take a "footballing" generation (i.e. time from scouting to playing) to get back to 2021/22 levels.

It is ok saying "let's get academy payers in", but what if the academy players are realistically only Gateshead Utd level players?  If there was someone in the academy today, I put it that Warne would have been having them training with 1sts pretty pronto  He hasn't, so he doesn't rate any of them at this stage highly enough - or even at all.

What hope does an academy player have?  If they are good enough: lots, probably due to circumstances better than elsewhere.  If they aren't, do we really want second rate 18 year olds in the team  Better off getting some/any 35 year old from any of four top divisions - at least they have experience.  

[CBX1985]

2 hours ago, Boycie said:

In my opinion, if he’s getting 5-10 minutes in the odd game, he might as well be playing in the u21 keeping his confidence up and getting the odd run out for us for 5-10 mins.

I assume they hoped Gateshead would play hIm more?

Why are Gateshead not playing him?  If he isn't good enough to be first team there, what chance here

[Ghost of Clough]

38 minutes ago, CBX1985 said:

The Academy was decimated by administration.  Their performance has been dreadful.  It will take a "footballing" generation (i.e. time from scouting to playing) to get back to 2021/22 levels.

It is ok saying "let's get academy payers in", but what if the academy players are realistically only Gateshead Utd level players?  If there was someone in the academy today, I put it that Warne would have been having them training with 1sts pretty pronto  He hasn't, so he doesn't rate any of them at this stage highly enough - or even at all.

What hope does an academy player have?  If they are good enough: lots, probably due to circumstances better than elsewhere.  If they aren't, do we really want second rate 18 year olds in the team  Better off getting some/any 35 year old from any of four top divisions - at least they have experience.  

Define "decimated". In terms of players, we lost only Ryan, Eze (who joined us at the start of that season), and Kellyman from our academy sides during adminstration. Williams was a fringe first teamer by the time we sold him. In terms of staff, I beleive we no longer have any vacancies for academy roles.

Define "dreadful". Last season, the U18s finished 7th last season (2 points off 4th) and are currently 4th (3 points off 3rd) this season. Results for the U21s this season still aren't great, but if you'd watch them you'd know they aren't too far off the pace - evidenced by having lost by more than 1 goal only twice in all compettiions since September (a record which our first team also has).

It defeinitely won't take a "geenration" to get back to the levels we were at previously.

Warne has had a number of academy players participate in first team training. That doesn't mean he's willing to give them a go in the first team though. It also doesn't mean Warne is a good or bad judge of player. As I've stated many times before, there is also a difference between the ability of a squad/fringe player and a regular starter. Examples I gave in the past were Brown and O'Shea being good squad players at Man Utd, but less impressive as regulars for a struggling Sunderland side. You could also look at current PL sides and their use of academy players. For example, Liverpool have given Bobby Clark 6 appearances this season, but if they were to loan him out to a L1 side.

"If they're good enough" is only true if a manager is willing to give them a go. Thompson was good enough for 25 Championship games in the 21/22 season (1521 mins) but only good enough for 10 under Warne last season (159 minutes). Warne isn't the only manager guilty of it, but he absolutely is afraid of putting young players in incase they make mistakes.

[Boycie]

1 hour ago, CBX1985 said:

Why are Gateshead not playing him?  If he isn't good enough to be first team there, what chance here

I assume every team has the same problem with playing youngsters, it’s the risk of losing.  Maybe they’ve not had the luxury of a large lead going into the final period of matches where they can bring him on?

Its the same here too, but in the meantime he’d be playing for the stiffs.

[richinspain]

6 hours ago, Boycie said:

I assume every team has the same problem with playing youngsters, it’s the risk of losing.  Maybe they’ve not had the luxury of a large lead going into the final period of matches where they can bring him on?

Its the same here too, but in the meantime he’d be playing for the stiffs.

The under 21s were allowed to play for the under 21s even though they were out on loan a few years back. Is that rule no longer in effect?

[Returning ram]

7 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

"If they're good enough" is only true if a manager is willing to give them a go. Thompson was good enough for 25 Championship games in the 21/22 season (1521 mins) but only good enough for 10 under Warne last season (159 minutes). Warne isn't the only manager guilty of it, but he absolutely is afraid of putting young players in incase they make mistakes.

For comparison, what about Bird and Cashin. He isn't afraid to put youngsters in, he just doesn't think some are as good as other options.

Same as every manager really, Cole to Chelsea is a very good example of that.

Edit

Also add in Haydon Roberts, another "young" player, PW was happy to play.

Edited February 23 by Returning ram
Added in

[Boycie]

1 hour ago, richinspain said:

The under 21s were allowed to play for the under 21s even though they were out on loan a few years back. Is that rule no longer in effect?

I’m not sure, but have you forget how far Derby is from Newcastle? 

[Tamworthram]

10 hours ago, Returning ram said:

For comparison, what about Bird and Cashin. He isn't afraid to put youngsters in, he just doesn't think some are as good as other options.

Same as every manager really, Cole to Chelsea is a very good example of that.

Edit

Also add in Haydon Roberts, another "young" player, PW was happy to play.

Perhaps @Ghost of Clough should have said “proven” youngsters. Bird and Cashin were so established in the first team when PW arrived that it doesn’t quite feel right to describe them as “youngsters” even though they technically are.

Having said that, I’m not entirely convinced PW is afraid to play unproven youngsters. It could just be that he doesn’t see them good enough (at the moment) to make that breakthrough. 
 

It’s always a risk playing unproven youngsters in the first team and it’s perhaps a risk PW should have taken earlier in the season but now we’re at the sharp end of the season, maybe it’s more important to stick with experience.

Edited February 24 by Tamworthram

[Returning ram]

16 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Perhaps @Ghost of Clough should have said “proven” youngsters. Bird and Cashin were so established in the first team when PW arrived that it doesn’t quite feel right to describe them as “youngsters” even though they technically are.

Having said that, I’m not entirely convinced PW is afraid to play unproven youngsters. It could just be that he doesn’t see them good enough (at the moment) to make that breakthrough. 
 

It’s always a risk playing unproven youngsters in the first team and it’s perhaps a risk PW should have taken earlier in the season but now we’re at the sharp end of the season, maybe it’s more important to stick with experience.

Cashin had only played 18 games the season before, less than Thompson. 
 

The quote was "he absolutely is afraid of putting young players in incase they make mistakes." 

Which in my opinion is an unfounded statement that isn't backed up by him using youngsters he feels are going to better his first team.

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, Returning ram said:

Cashin had only played 18 games the season before, less than Thompson. 
 

The quote was "he absolutely is afraid of putting young players in incase they make mistakes." 

Which in my opinion is an unfounded statement that isn't backed up by him using youngsters he feels are going to better his first team.

18 games is a bit different to throwing a newbie into the first team but, as I said, I'm not sure he's that "afraid".

[Returning ram]

2 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

18 games is a bit different to throwing a newbie into the first team but, as I said, I'm not sure he's that "afraid".

Totally agree, however the post mentioned Thompson having 25 games the season before and then not being trusted by PW. Nothing about a newbie.

[DiggerB]

https://x.com/gatesheadfc/status/1763972493063131593?s=46

[Carnero]

Goal @ 16'05 of this video