The Paul Warne Poll

[brady1993]

1 hour ago, sage said:

I think we are both right.

I think Clowes was looking for someone mote experienced but an extra 4 points which would have very reasonably been gained with adequate finishing, would have placed us in the play off positions, which would have made it very difficult to replace him.

Maybe like Rush with Clough and Stevie Mac, he had his man on standby and was waiting for a couple of bad results.

 

Oh agreed. My point was more than anything we were going along at about par points wise for what you'd expect given everything. Collins scores a bunch and suddenly on paper I'd contend we'd have overperformed. 

It's why I said at the time that expectations have been raised when Warne got appointed because it felt fairly clear that it was an appointment with a fast promotion in mind.

It's also why despite my own personal feelings I suspect he's on a ticking clock right now. I just can't gauge how long Warne will be given but I think if it looks like we are starting to really fall off the pace for playoffs I won't be shocked if something happens.

 

[sage]

Just now, brady1993 said:

Oh agreed. My point was more than anything we were going along at about par points wise for what you'd expect given everything. Collins scores a bunch and suddenly on paper I'd contend we'd have overperformed. 

It's why I said at the time that expectations have been raised when Warne got appointed because it felt fairly clear that it was an appointment with a fast promotion in mind.

It's also why despite my own personal feelings I suspect he's on a ticking clock right now. I just can't gauge how long Warne will be given but I think if it looks like we are starting to really fall off the pace for playoffs I won't be shocked if something happens.

 

Mu suspicion is he will be given the season and if we don't come top 6 he will be gone.

I'd imagine DC has a manager or 2 in his head already.

 

[trappatoni]

2 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

I'm about to throw a massive spanner into the works of this whole thread...

There are more managers out there than just Warne and Rosenior.

On paper, replacing Rosenior with Warne was a good move. I personally couldn't believe we'd landed someone with such a good record at this level.

But this thread shouldn't be about what's happened in the past, it should be forward looking. Is Warne the man to take us forward? I loved Rosenior, but he doesn't have any relevance in us moving forwards now.

 

No you are right but we can discuss the past. 

 

IF we haven't put in a genuine promotion challenge at the end of this season I would have a look at Warburton.  If we are spunki... I mean spending... millions a year on a cat 1 academy why not appoint a manager with a track record of bringing through young and academy players.   He's also left his coaching role to look for a manager's job. 

 

If not him then maybe look outside the box rather than going for a tried and tested route.   The likes of Cooper, Jones, Potter (I know he was a decent player), Klopp, Mourinho, Wenger all have in UK terms unconventional paths into management - as did Warburton.   Find the next one and get in first.  Just use a bit of imagination rather than the he's done it before route we seem to be going down with players as well as the manager. 

[brady1993]

4 minutes ago, sage said:

Mu suspicion is he will be given the season and if we don't come top 6 he will be gone.

I'd imagine DC has a manager or 2 in his head already.

 

I think you are probably right aside from a situation where we are well off the pace come December. (Like outside of the top 10). 

The only only thing I will say in contrast to this and to be clear this is pure speculation on my part is that my read of some of Warne's interview comments is somebody who feels under pressure and is reaching for explanations. Its just got that inkling of somebody deflecting in order to mitigate their situation.

[duncanjwitham]

11 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

There are more managers out there than just Warne and Rosenior.

Honestly, at least when you're talking about tactics, systems, styles of play etc, it's just easier to say RoseniorBall or McClaren-type football than describe exactly what's going on on the pitch.  If I say RowettBall, then pretty much everyone on here knows what I'm talking about and I don't have to start talking about compact back 4s with 2 holding midfielders, and using pacy front 4s to counterattack.

[RoyMac5]

7 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

Warnes whole football philosophy is based around pressing and gegenpressing ala Klopps Liverpool. Here's one for the stattos. Under Warne Rotherham consistently had one of the lowest 'Passes allowed Per Defensive Action' rates in the entire English football pyramid. Essentially the lower the PPDA, the less time a team allows the opposition to have on the ball. Highly impressive given the lack of quality and depth within their squad in comparison to teams in the Premier League. Rotherham also had the highest challenge intensity, a metric designed to measure how actively a team is seeking to recover the ball. So what these stats tell us is that Rotherham actively looked to win the ball pressing high up the pitch, and were very good at it.

So how long did Rotherham have on the ball?

[RoyMac5]

7 hours ago, sunnyhill60 said:

Who signed Collins?

Who signed Didzy - we know Warne wouldn't have.

[Papahet]

His best signing so far is someone who wasn't even a target and only came here by the off-chance he played at fozzys testimonial 😀

Says it all..

[RoyMac5]

31 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

I'm about to throw a massive spanner into the works of this whole thread...

There are more managers out there than just Warne and Rosenior.

On paper, replacing Rosenior with Warne was a good move. I personally couldn't believe we'd landed someone with such a good record at this level.

But this thread shouldn't be about what's happened in the past, it should be forward looking. Is Warne the man to take us forward? I loved Rosenior, but he doesn't have any relevance in us moving forwards now.

True. We had a decent squad last season and we'd 'hammered' some teams under Rosenior. So I personally thought with Warne we'd be getting 'Roseniorball' but without so much sideways/backwards passing for it's own sake. Afterall we were told he was adaptable and happy with the squad. Indeed it was stated how he'd even tried to sign some of our squad for Rotherham.

But what we have now is just an anathema to football enjoyment, because we aren't adaptable at all and the predictable way Warne wants us to play is 'joyless', except for results ie when we actually win.

Edited September 4, 2023 by RoyMac5

[Tamworthram]

29 minutes ago, sage said:

So if Collins had took some of those early chances and we'd been 4th, it wouldn't have impacted the decision?

 

Well obviously only DC can answer that question but probably not. It would seem that DC didn’t see Rosenior as the man to take us forward. If the scenario had played out as you describe it may have been awkward for DC but I suspect not enough to change his mind especially as, I assume, negotiations and interviews would have been going on for a little while with PW.

[Tamworthram]

30 minutes ago, sage said:

Mu suspicion is he will be given the season and if we don't come top 6 he will be gone.

I'd imagine DC has a manager or 2 in his head already.

 

On that we agree unless, by Christmas (or thereabouts) we find ourselves way off the pace and still not playing decent or cohesive football.

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Well obviously only DC can answer that question but probably not. It would seem that DC didn’t see Rosenior as the man to take us forward. If the scenario had played out as you describe it may have been awkward for DC but I suspect not enough to change his mind especially as, I assume, negotiations and interviews would have been going on for a little while with PW.

Tapping up?

Somewhere in the threads when talking about Rosenior staying someone said (paraphrased) 'ah yes a final break with the Mel Morris era'. But of course one of the biggest 'movers' of that era is still right here. So whilst I am sure he is 'on our side', I am not sure of the culture he brings to the Club? A bit like with Mel and looking back, the pink only wears off the glasses when it rains!?

[duncanjwitham]

8 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

Warnes whole football philosophy is based around pressing and gegenpressing ala Klopps Liverpool.

I read a really interesting article a while back, about how Klopp had to adapt his style when he moved from Dortmund to Liverpool.  I'm not sure if this is the same article, but it's the closest I can find and it does make some of the same points:

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/article/klopp-his-tactical-evolution-from-dortmund-to-liverpool-tactical-analysis-tactics

The gist of it was, the German league is a much more open, attacking league so you can basically always counter-press, because the other team is always going to come and have a go at you to some degree.  At Liverpool, he was having to deal with teams coming to Anfield and just setting up to not lose, and you can't press in the same way if the other team has no intention of ever really playing into it.  The net result being his Liverpool team keep possession a lot more than his Dortmund one, and have to create their own chances more, rather than just relying on pressing the other team into a mistake.

I do wonder if there's something a bit similar happening here - smaller teams are possibly much more willing to come and have a go at Rotherham than they are at Pride Park in front of 25k+ fans.

[I am Ram]

In his latest interview, PW mentions promotion and sending the lads away to do some soul searching. Why is he struggling to get his message across to the players, even the basics of how he wants to play are not being carried out. I think he needs to do some soul searching and adapt to his squad, that he assembled. Stop being stubborn, your tactics at Rovrum have been found out at this level by the rest of the league, football moves on, adapt or fail i think. I hope he adapts and we start seeing some resemblance of a footballing philosophy to turn the ship around, at the moment we look rudderless and have no identity. It's a hard watch at the minute UTR

[nottingram]

I would be amazed if even half the people who go “well actually Rosenior was interim so it can’t have been a surprise” actually thought at the time he wasn’t going to be appointed full time.

It felt inevitable, and him being replaced was a huge shock.

[Rammy03]

2 hours ago, sage said:

So Warne should have the time and Rosenoir shouldn't have?

 

It's irrelevant. Clowes chose not to appoint Rosenior full time. At the time I thought we needed a clean slate, a new manager chosen by new ownership. That was my overriding feeling on the whole situation. Nothing to do with not giving Rosenior time.

[Archied]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

You think people demand elite level football? After watching Warneball for 11 months, I crave for the days of Rowettball, never mind what we had under Mac. I firmly stand by my belief that Rosenior would have eventually got us playing a lot closer to Mac than where we were when he left.

No but I do believe lots of fans fail to factor in that the players we get are far from the complete package , I loved macs clough jnr team but let’s be honest we had plenty moaning about our soft underbelly and other failings when we lost a few ,

your certain rosenior would have been successful building a winning side playing the way you like teams to play , im not so sure he would and not sure it’s the type of team I enjoy watching , I’m more sure he could do it on a top 4 prem budget though 

[Caerphilly Ram]

10 minutes ago, nottingram said:

I would be amazed if even half the people who go “well actually Rosenior was interim so it can’t have been a surprise” actually thought at the time he wasn’t going to be appointed full time.

It felt inevitable, and him being replaced was a huge shock.

Personally I was content to see Rosenior given the job full time as I could see what he was looking to do and liked the idea of a young coach being given a chance, however alongside that was an idea that I wanted to close the book on what had gone before and see a fresh start from the club under new ownership. I’ve often assumed that was David Clowes intention as he has done an element of clubwide refresh in key roles, other than Pearce where I can see the logic in having some continuity. Clowes himself has said he wanted to appoint Warne sooner than he did, so it probably wasn’t a surprise to Rosenior if Clowes intent was always to look to another manager;

Paul Warne, who had taken Rotherham up from League One for the third time in 2022, was Clowes' number one managerial target from the outset.

It was not until September that the Rams got the man they "nickname the King of League One", having had a initial attempt to lure him from the Millers rejected earlier in the summer.

"Once we knew there was an opportunity that we could speak to Paul, we just had to go down that path," Clowes said. 

"We knew there was a lot of interest in him from other clubs, Championship clubs, and I thought 'if we don't get in here we will miss the boat'.

"His proven record, three promotions, his man management, his empathy, just ticked every single box."

Quote taken from the interview he gave radio Derby with transcribed excerpts here;

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/65959914.amp

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Blondest Goat said:

Doesn't appear to have stopped Bolton, Wigan, Oxford playing decent football

And Ipswich and Plymouth last season.

Wouldnt even mind watching anti-football if it was successful.  It hasn't been so far has it?

You think Bolton were playing great football against us at home when we played poorly and with ten men ? It took a disputed penalty , a freak deflected goal and a homer ref to beat us , I saw a team that flattered to deceive but hey it’s all about opinions 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Curtains]

Where has all this Rosenior stuff come from now

The point was argued and the forum was unanimous mostly that bringing Warne in was correct.

Get behind Warne now and move on