Paul Warne appointed as Head Coach

[wixman1884]

Something needs to change now. Steve McClaren and Chris Martin are getting older every year, and the window is closing on fulfilling my ultimate derby county fantasy 

[Rich3478]

8 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

It was judged as a free hit at the start of the season by anyone with a modicum of sense. 

Since Warne got brought in (and replaced Rosenoir which shouldn't be ignored) then in some folks minds this has then cranked the expectations up to in some cases totally surreal levels. 

Am sure Warne isn't perfect the same as anyone on this forum and am also sure that all the armchair Footy Manager aficionados could also do a much better job then him at the same time pointing out his glaring deficiencies. 

Easy job isn't it football management 

I see your point but expectations obviously change through a season. In august Arsenal would’ve snapped your hands off for fourth. Now they’d see that as a failure.

We have a talented squad for this league even if it is small.

Also people are always going to speculate on what the team should be, what they’d do differently. That’s part of going to football. If you don’t like that part of it I’d suggest a forum isn’t for you. Literally exists to debate things.

 

[LeedsCityRam]

8 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

It was judged as a free hit at the start of the season by anyone with a modicum of sense. 

Since Warne got brought in (and replaced Rosenoir which shouldn't be ignored) then in some folks minds this has then cranked the expectations up to in some cases totally surreal levels. 

Am sure Warne isn't perfect the same as anyone on this forum and am also sure that all the armchair Footy Manager aficionados could also do a much better job then him at the same time pointing out his glaring deficiencies. 

Easy job isn't it football management 

You have previously said this squad is capable of a top 6 finish (I can dig the post out if you like) & as things stand, that is in serious jeopardy. If by surreal expectations you mean fans demanding top 2, then yes I would agree that was totally unrealistic albeit not a widely shared view.

We all recognise there are limitations on Warne's ability to bring in players to suit his style of play but football management rarely affords managers the luxury of ideal circumstances. This time whilst in the job has called for some pragmatism/flexibility in his approach in order to get results given what players he does have. In terms of appraising Warne's job in his near 30 league games to date the questions worth considering are;

How many unexpectedly good results have we gained under his management?

How many times has he changed players or systems during a game to grab a positive result from a losing position?

Would a neutral consider he is getting this group of players to over-perform?

For me, the answers are none, a couple (Port Vale away springs to mind) & not really. Obviously we see things differently so on what basis are you judging his performance to date?

Edited March 26, 2023 by LeedsCityRam

[derbydaz22]

6 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Well the youngsters certainly aren’t. One of the difficult calls this season was always going to be when to rest the elder statesmen. 

I think our small squad and lack of options is really hurting us we are crying out for a striker with pace.

[Rich3478]

I get the limitations on warne as well but really struggle to see how we couldn’t sign any striker at all. We signed springett who has been pretty underwhelming. Any younger quicker striker would’ve been an option. We’ve actually been pretty lucky Collins and mcgoldrick have largely stayed fit all season.

Luke plange is not doing much at Lincoln, but would imagine would cost similar to springett. Is at least an option we’d have had. And a lot of prem and championship clubs have these 19/20 year old strikers.

bird got injured and we got white the next day or so. Osula went back pretty early in January.

 

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, Rich3478 said:

I see your point but expectations obviously change through a season. In august Arsenal would’ve snapped your hands off for fourth. Now they’d see that as a failure.

We have a talented squad for this league even if it is small.

Also people are always going to speculate on what the team should be, what they’d do differently. That’s part of going to football. If you don’t like that part of it I’d suggest a forum isn’t for you. Literally exists to debate things.

 

Yes so we agree that at the start of this season then it was seen as a free hit, no?

And yes so we agree that some of the armchair pundits on here can all do a much better job than Warne with their vast knowledge of football and all their coaching badges?

Like or dislike doesn't come into the above, end of. 

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, Rich3478 said:

I get the limitations on warne as well but really struggle to see how we couldn’t sign any striker at all. We signed springett who has been pretty underwhelming. Any younger quicker striker would’ve been an option. We’ve actually been pretty lucky Collins and mcgoldrick have largely stayed fit all season.

Luke plange is not doing much at Lincoln, but would imagine would cost similar to springett. Is at least an option we’d have had. And a lot of prem and championship clubs have these 19/20 year old strikers.

bird got injured and we got white the next day or so. Osula went back pretty early in January.

 

There's lots of chat from Warne about getting in players with the right temperament and spoiling the squad harmony - but I bet sliding out of the play-offs will do more to upset squad harmony than a player or two agitating to get on the pitch?! 

But anyway I read this tweet so it must be true... 😄

 

 

[Rich3478]

4 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Yes so we agree that at the start of this season then it was seen as a free hit, no?

And yes so we agree that some of the armchair pundits on here can all do a much better job than Warne with their vast knowledge of football and all their coaching badges?

Like or dislike doesn't come into the above, end of. 

Think no one had any idea what this season would go like in august. Signings like hourihane and mcgoldrick suggested a look upwards rather than fighting off relegation though. A 16 game unbeaten run lifts expectations though. And rightly so.

We’re all armchair or stadium pundits aren’t we. You can’t tell me you go and just sit there with no opinion on the game. Just happy to have a club and agree with whatever the manager picks.

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, Rich3478 said:

Think no one had any idea what this season would go like in august. Signings like hourihane and mcgoldrick suggested a look upwards rather than fighting off relegation though. A 16 game unbeaten run lifts expectations though. And rightly so.

We’re all armchair or stadium pundits aren’t we. You can’t tell me you go and just sit there with no opinion on the game. Just happy to have a club and agree with whatever the manager picks.

So you do agree that at the start of this season the outcome was seen as a free hit. Which was always my original point. 

Some of the "debate" on here recently has been centred still around the EFL doing us over, referees being wilfully biased against us, that's just pure paranoia not debate. 

As I said before in my original post am sure Warne isn't a perfect football manager, in fact I guarantee it. That's why he's managing a League 1 side. 

[Rich3478]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

So you do agree that at the start of this season the outcome was seen as a free hit. Which was always my original point. 

Some of the "debate" on here recently has been centred still around the EFL doing us over, referees being wilfully biased against us, that's just pure paranoia not debate. 

As I said before in my original post am sure Warne isn't a perfect football manager, in fact I guarantee it. That's why he's managing a League 1 side. 

Yeah I agree with that.

Also agree on the efl thing and the ref bias as well. Find it a bit cringe to be honest. Think quite a few genuinely believe it which I find surprising. Personally am trying to recall as little as last season as possible. Put it behind us and move forward.

[i-Ram]

9 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

It was judged as a free hit at the start of the season by anyone with a modicum of sense. 

Since Warne got brought in (and replaced Rosenoir which shouldn't be ignored) then in some folks minds this has then cranked the expectations up to in some cases totally surreal levels. 

Am sure Warne isn't perfect the same as anyone on this forum and am also sure that all the armchair Footy Manager aficionados could also do a much better job then him at the same time pointing out his glaring deficiencies. 

Easy job isn't it football management 

Well I obviously don’t have a modicum of sense. I suspect neither does David Clowes.

A top 6 position was always up for grabs with the squad that was put together, and of course it still may be achieved. Where Clowes and I differ is who would have been the better of Warne and a ‘Rosenior type’ to get us there. The squad was always more suited for playing football in a more pedestrian, pragmatic way. Pass and move. Few in the team are suited to high intensity, park football.

 

[Ram-Alf]

10 hours ago, angieram said:

I feel very conflicted about the current situation at the Club. 

Part of me is just grateful that we have a Club. That part believes we shouldn't really be judging Warne until we have a squad he has assembled on a level playing field with other clubs in the division ie by spending money that we can afford.

But, we knew when we signed Warne that we couldn't do this for at least this season and probably next. We also knew that the squad we had was put together, albeit hastily, by a different manager with a very different style of play in mind. 

Warne has worked this squad very hard to get them somewhere near the fitness levels he demands, but he isn't able to magic up physicality, or do anything about the age profile of the squad. He has inspired them personally, you can see the effort is there, but some players look to be treading treacle at this stage and in dire need of a rest, yet we've still 8-10 games to go. 

So something has to give somewhere. Could we have managed the squad's fitness better by not demanding up-tempo direct football that drains their energy levels in every game? Could we have used the players' undoubted football skills to make the ball do some of the work for them? Could we have rotated the squad better? Could we even (heaven forbid!) have set up not to lose some of these away matches, rather than go all out to win them? An extra 4 or 5 away points from grinding out defensive draws would be very welcome right now, imo.

Or should we look at this season as a free hit? See it as a learning opportunity for Warne to ascertain who he might want to keep in a much-changed squad for next season to play the way he wants and thinks will eventually succeed in getting us out of this division? Should we steel ourselves to waving goodbye to the type of pretty football that has been Derby's trademark for some years now, but has ultimately brought us little success?

I don't know the answer to any of those questions. 

And let's not forget this season isn't over yet.

Warne's high-risk, high-reward style of play may yet reap those rewards this season and we might all feel very differently if we gain promotion in a glorious win at Wembley in May. The struggle of how we got there will then be temporarily forgotten. 

Until it starts again next season and all the worries will surface again.

I don't think it's an easy time to be a fan at Derby County. 

A very well thought out post Angie, No anger, No emotion a little confusion maybe to what's happening as it is for us all, We've both seen the good times along with the bad times, In DCFCs case this season we've had a decent start with both managers, A cracking middle part and and ending that hasn't been written yet.

Try winning a Formula 1 race with an aging car, And parts that don't fit, Or find you're near the summit of a mountain and miss those last 100 feet as you couldn't buy that 100 feet of rope that would get you there so you borrowed some rope that wasn't strong enough and kept breaking.

PW in his interviews especially the one you posted gives a very good insight of PWs persona, He doesn't like liars, He's honest, He's a family man that likes to walk with his pet dog and Wife, He lives away from Derby so out of the mire when things get bumpy, He's continually on the phone texting or calling players, Football friends, Managers and agents and his coaching staff, I wouldn't swap my life for his for all the tea in China.

PW is trying to win games with a team that's not his, He's inherited a small but capable squad that has/had a different football mentality that he'd have bought in(guessing)he's admitted in an interview pre Xmas that the fitness in our squad is better than it was when he came in, He's said on numerous occasions that the players have bought into his style football and method of training, What he can not do is develop a players strong character that is something that people garner through their lives, There's leaders in life and followers in life, I see no leaders on the pitch, You know the ones, Those that work in the engine room, That make to parts gel together, That put a calming hand on a player or waves his fist in their faces for not doing their job, We've had these players over the decades we've been watching, Sadly imo we've not got any.

There's still 8 games to play and 24 points to play for...so who's up for the fight?...only time will tell.

From a PW supporter 👍 

[Gritstone Tup]

For what it’s worth I think Paul Warne has done a good job. I think we’ll still scrape into the play offs, not that that’s too important this season. He’s built an excellent foundation with players not suited to his style or his own choices. Six or seven PW type players in the summer and we’ll rip it up next season imo!

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

So you do agree that at the start of this season the outcome was seen as a free hit. Which was always my original point. 

Well I don't agree. I was looking at teams like Swindon 21/22 season that were in a worse situation than us yet still achieved the Play offs. Why not look and see the best that can be achieved?

[Tyler Durden]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well I don't agree. I was looking at teams like Swindon 21/22 season that were in a worse situation than us yet still achieved the Play offs. Why not look and see the best that can be achieved?

The point was whether the poster agreed with my original premise which they did. 

Not whether you agree Roy but thanks for letting me know 😜

[Tyler Durden]

10 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Well I obviously don’t have a modicum of sense. I suspect neither does David Clowes.

A top 6 position was always up for grabs with the squad that was put together, and of course it still may be achieved. Where Clowes and I differ is who would have been the better of Warne and a ‘Rosenior type’ to get us there. The squad was always more suited for playing football in a more pedestrian, pragmatic way. Pass and move. Few in the team are suited to high intensity, park football.

 

I remember the original debate at the time which seems to have shifted to focus on Warne but was always centred around the potential unwisdom of Clowes in bringing Warne in when the players he had at his disposal didn't really fit in with his footballing philosophy.

So unless Warne changed this radically then he was always going to be hammering square pegs into round holes. Which is something allegedly Clowes should have predicted when making the appointment. 

Maybe he just thought that long term Warne was always going to be the more favourable pick over Rosenoir and was always considering the long term strategy of the club.

Given the boom or bust approach of our previous owner I can tell you which one of the two I prefer.  

[MadAmster]

17 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Yes so we agree that at the start of this season then it was seen as a free hit, no?

And yes so we agree that some of the armchair pundits on here can all do a much better job than Warne with their vast knowledge of football and all their coaching badges?

Like or dislike doesn't come into the above, end of. 

You might be surprised to find that there are people posting on here who fit that description. Where I will  agree with you is that fans do tend to be reactive. The good run saw everybody delighted and upbeat. the downturn has them saddened. Their reactions are results driven. 

Should the downturn be a surprise? Probably not.

We have, in quantity, a paper thin squad. Warne's game requires a lot of hard work on the training ground and masses of it on match day. The squad is a mixed bag of kids and wrinklies. The glue that keeps teams together tends to be a nucleus of 24 to 29 year olds and we don't have them. It's quite possible that, just as Bielsa's L**ds teams used to, the players have run out of steam. If that's the case then how/why did that happen? Several coaching badgeless fans have commented that we seem to be slow, at best, in reacting to opposition changes in personnel/formation. If true, in which direction should the finger be pointed? Are some players being dishonest in maybe not saying they need a rest? Some of the older ones maybe. The problem being that there isn't always a ready made replacement.

In most things, the truth tends to lie somewhere in the middle. In this discussion, it's either all PWs fault or none of it is. IMO, circumstances carry a share, the players carry a share and the coaching staff, including PW, carry a share. Coaches can only work with what they are given. At one club, I was coaching the reserve side. I had, on paper, 19 players at my disposal. At training (2 evenings a week) due to shift work, injury, illness and life in general, I'd have between 5 and 8 players at any given session. The missing players were in 2 groups. Those missing for the reasons given and those called up to train with the 1st team because they were shorthanded for the same reasons. How do you coach your team in things they need to learn/change? You can't. I was also hamstrung with the club strategy and the Dutch players intransigence. 433 was the style. My 19 had 3 keepers, half a dozen defenders, 1 striker and the rest were all midfield players. 433 was never going to work. I tried to get them to change but the collective always has strength. Come Christmas we were bottom. I called a meeting. I'd gained permission from the club to change formation as neither the club nor I was prepared to go down. First question from me to the players was "do you want to relegate?". They didn't. 433 was obviously not working. I asked them to give me the chance to rescue the season. They agreed. Sounds daft, the coach asking the players, but this is the Netherlands and things work differently here. I got them to go 4141 with a flat back 4 rather than the diamond usually seen over here. First game after the 6 week winter break, we were away at the team in 2nd place. Sickness, injury and work saw me with just 11 players plus myself (aged 53). The training sessions had worked and we, despite me having to come on in the 10th minute, won 1-0. We stayed up. The players approached the committee in the summer, they wanted to go back to 433. I was relieved of my duties. They went down the next season. 

[Jimbo Ram]

7 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Well the youngsters certainly aren’t. One of the difficult calls this season was always going to be when to rest the elder statesmen. 

I think they are. Other teams have the players to effectively rotate, we don’t.

[littleover ram]

I think not being able to extend players contracts hurt us more than not being able to sign players.

Ebsoele would work great in Warne’s system. Ebowei too. They haven’t seemed to have broken into their new teams either 

Edited March 26, 2023 by littleover ram

[alram]

2 hours ago, Gritstone Tup said:

For what it’s worth I think Paul Warne has done a good job. I think we’ll still scrape into the play offs, not that that’s too important this season. He’s built an excellent foundation with players not suited to his style or his own choices. Six or seven PW type players in the summer and we’ll rip it up next season imo!

agree i think he has done well overall.

 

there is lingering doubt in my mind over the long term success of warne though. the style which would come from 6 or 7 PW type players isn't an attractive process in my mind, it is the waiting game i suppose and hoping for the best. but on paper he is doing what is required (so far)