Morecambe v Derby (A) Matchday thread

[duncanjwitham]

19 minutes ago, Srg said:

No. If playing with a 3 at the back means you are unable to put a tackle in with aggression or play a pass with sufficient pace and have a good first touch on the end of it, then you probably shouldn't be playing professional football.

It could, however, mean you're getting overrun in the would-be full back positions, or your most dangerous player is receiving it in his own half far too much. 

Again, doesn't affect basics.

You can't just take passing and tackling completely out of the context of the match though, both your own team and the opposition.  You don't want players just throwing themselves into tackles all the time.  If you aren't pressing in a structured way (hunting in packs etc) then you're just taking yourself out of the game, it's easy to play through.  You either press with enough bodies, or stand off and funnel back into shape.  Sometimes not tackling is absolutely the correct thing to do.

Likewise with passing, you can only pass the ball forward if there's somebody there, in space, to pass it to.  Too often with the back 3, we end up with a near back-5, and 3 sitting in front of them and very few forward passing options.  So it becomes very easy to block off passing routes to the forwards, and we either end up playing it sideways, or forcing passes that aren't there.  When you have more options in forward areas, it's much more difficult for the opposition to stifle us.  And likewise, it's easier to control the ball if you're under less pressure from opposing defenders. 

And the way Bristol Rovers played was a major factor in both of those things.  Very few teams come to Pride Park and try and play progressive football from the back. The majority come to sit deep, stop us playing and nick something on the break or from a set piece.  The way Bristol played gave us ample opportunity to press them high (because they were dawdling on it at the back), and made it easier to pass through them because they had more players in advanced positions, leaving more space in behind.

I genuinely don't think there was *that* much difference in effort between the Exeter and Bristol Rovers games, it's just that against Bristol, which used that effort much more effectively, and the opposition allowed us to.  I expect tonight to be much more like the Exeter game, especially if we end up putting Stearman in and going to a back 3.  Although obviously Morecambe are a much worse team than either Exeter or Bristol.

[sage]

We are in the Embargo Micro Pub on the seafront 

Great name 

Great beer. 

 

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Don't you think it's easier to 'compete' and play with purpose when you a)know what you're meant to be doing and b)are comfortable with what you're doing? We're better with 4 at the back for a reason.

Yes to (a) and (b).

You may well be right about the last sentence but I actually thought our best game under Rosenior was 3-5-2 vs Wycombe, and we've also been good under Warne with 3-5-2 at Cambridge and Accrington. That said, 4 at the back in the first half vs Bristol Rovers was obviously right up there too, and arguably it wasn't the formation that cost us either of the 2 goals conceded.

[Premier ram]

whats the weather like in Morecambe guys we are about an hour away , COYR

[Mucker1884]

19 minutes ago, sage said:

We are in the Embargo Micro Pub on the seafront 

Great name 

 

 

To be fair, most coastal resorts just call it the seafront.
It helps to avoid confusion. 

[Foreveram]

1 minute ago, Premier ram said:

whats the weather like in Morecambe guys we are about an hour away , COYR

Just had a very heavy shower but it stopped now.

[angieram]

49 minutes ago, Mick Brolly said:

Quite a few derby fans in the station boozer 

Me included!

[Eddie]

31 minutes ago, sage said:

We are in the Embargo Micro Pub on the seafront 

Great name 

Great beer. 

 

The Memsahib and I went in there last year. Great beer.

 

[Premier ram]

14 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Just had a very heavy shower but it stopped now.

cheers mate

[Mick Brolly]

8 minutes ago, angieram said:

Me included!

Left half an hour ago to have a wonder around the sights 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Mick Brolly

[Srg]

1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said:

You can't just take passing and tackling completely out of the context of the match though, both your own team and the opposition.  You don't want players just throwing themselves into tackles all the time.  If you aren't pressing in a structured way (hunting in packs etc) then you're just taking yourself out of the game, it's easy to play through.  You either press with enough bodies, or stand off and funnel back into shape.  Sometimes not tackling is absolutely the correct thing to do.

Likewise with passing, you can only pass the ball forward if there's somebody there, in space, to pass it to.  Too often with the back 3, we end up with a near back-5, and 3 sitting in front of them and very few forward passing options.  So it becomes very easy to block off passing routes to the forwards, and we either end up playing it sideways, or forcing passes that aren't there.  When you have more options in forward areas, it's much more difficult for the opposition to stifle us.  And likewise, it's easier to control the ball if you're under less pressure from opposing defenders. 

And the way Bristol Rovers played was a major factor in both of those things.  Very few teams come to Pride Park and try and play progressive football from the back. The majority come to sit deep, stop us playing and nick something on the break or from a set piece.  The way Bristol played gave us ample opportunity to press them high (because they were dawdling on it at the back), and made it easier to pass through them because they had more players in advanced positions, leaving more space in behind.

I genuinely don't think there was *that* much difference in effort between the Exeter and Bristol Rovers games, it's just that against Bristol, which used that effort much more effectively, and the opposition allowed us to.  I expect tonight to be much more like the Exeter game, especially if we end up putting Stearman in and going to a back 3.  Although obviously Morecambe are a much worse team than either Exeter or Bristol.

The effort and application was night and day. A lot of words there, but we fundamentally don’t agree. But I’m not surprised given your thoughts on Warne. 

[Wistaston Ram]

Made it through the traffic and rain on the M6. Nice and dry here. Sat in the pub next to the ground. COYR.

[duncanjwitham]

28 minutes ago, Srg said:

The effort and application was night and day. A lot of words there, but we fundamentally don’t agree. But I’m not surprised given your thoughts on Warne. 

I’ll keep it simple then, if words bother you that much. We made significantly more tackles and interceptions against Exeter than we did against Bristol (24 vs 14 tackles and 13 vs 3 interceptions, stats from whoscored). The effort was similar, the application was night and day. 

[Yani P]

Sibley gets a start

Edited November 1, 2022 by Yani P

[Day]

Sibley in for Hourihane, otherwise unchanged team.

[Rampant]

Only 6 subs?

[nottingram]

Bird going to be a busy boy

[Millenniumram]

Sibley in a two man midfield sounds let a recipe for disaster with his erm… intelligence. I hope I’m wrong.

Also, 6 subs really slams home the current state of our academy, who seem to be getting battered every week.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Millenniumram

[Yani P]

Like the fact it's an attacking side..need to get at them from the off..

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Sibley in a two man midfield sounds let a recipe for disaster with his erm… intelligence. I hope I’m wrong.

Also, 6 subs really slams home the current state of our academy, who seem to be getting battered every week.

Nah don't worry, he'll be left wing-back in a 3-5-2 ??