Liam Rosenior

[Ram-Alf]

11 hours ago, rammieib said:

.

Fans around me moaned with the play in the back (which is ultimately to create space to drive forward) and then moaned when we went long. Unsurprisingly, they didn't provide a solution to what should have done!

 

You were there, I wasn't so I'll take your view with honesty.

The whole point of playing out from the back is as you say...create space and drive forward, Teams have watched us and see how a simple tactic is to press our players and close us down, Let us have the ball and defend, When the opposition score 1st it's as easy as 1-2-3, We push on and they use the space we leave behind.

Offside and Penalties are one persons view of the play, Plymouth we seemed to be unfortunate with their 2nd, Again last night 2 close calls, As for the Penalty some will some want give it, Being Derby County could be having a negative approach where officials are concerned...but these officials are what they are...pretty poor imo? 

[kevinhectoring]

20 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

The point is in a 4-2-3-1 the 2 get  overrun if the others don’t track back.

Bird is not being protected and he’s just like a quarter back getting sacked .

He has no time on the ball 

 

Yes. This set up does not get the best out of two key players - Bird and Knight. That’s a big price to pay

Edited September 14, 2022 by kevinhectoring

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

 

Yes. This set up does not get the best out of two key players - Bird and Knight. That’s a big price to pay

It isn't getting much out of Sibley either.

[Keepyuppy]

People forget that we’ve been absolutely awful playing away for 3 years playing this style of football - nothing will change until we stop playing this style of football in away matches. 
it hasn’t worked in the past, doesn’t work now and will never work in the future !!!

it’s very simple really, the manager needs to change the style of football, or we need to change the manager,,,,,,, it’s that simple !!!!

[Topram]

Has to start to realise that this passing around the back isn’t working, we just look scared to do it, we mess up the fans get on the backs and we struggle all game, we also need to change up the midfield because it really isn’t working 

[Oldben]

I think the decision to offer the role to Rosenoir was based on need at the time.

A club needed to be rebuilt fast from a very difficult place.

Multiple recruitment decisions had to be taken.

The recruitment decisions weren't made on the basis of if we had a transfer budget, but on who we could bring in as a free agent.

In my opinion the correct decision was taken to recruit experienced players who had previous championship or promotion from League one experience.

I'm not saying that some of those older players have resale value if we don't get promoted this season.

That built up a team, a huge amount of players brought in.

Most teams in League one brought in a couple of players, we brought in a team. That takes time to gel.

Rosenior was a gamble, but who could you get to come in at short notice that was experienced with the club.

Would I have preferred a different manager,maybe John Terry or Judy marsh if they had accepted the offer to manage the club.

The question isn't easy to answer, that's because if your a decent manager and your offered a job in League one, with a team that requires a complete rebuild and doesn't come with a transfer budget for two year, that might not interest the people you want to hire as manager.

[sage]

On 11/09/2022 at 17:04, sage said:

I always thought that he was at fault for all those away defeats under Rooney. 

Then I thought he was the best thing since Sliced Bread this season until we lost two games on the trot and now I think he's out of his depth and clueless

Just thought I'd sum up the thread. 

 

Updated thread summary 

[Rammy03]

18 minutes ago, Keepyuppy said:

People forget that we’ve been absolutely awful playing away for 3 years playing this style of football - nothing will change until we stop playing this style of football in away matches. 
it hasn’t worked in the past, doesn’t work now and will never work in the future !!!

it’s very simple really, the manager needs to change the style of football, or we need to change the manager,,,,,,, it’s that simple !!!!

Possession for the sake of possession. It's frustrating because football is such a simple game when played right. People try to overcomplicate it. It really isn't rocket science. We really do have better players than most teams in this league so if you just let them play then we'll be fine.

[LN747]

A big problem now is that this playing style and its lack of results especially away from home is obviously not working- at what point does Liam think it will? How long will he keep saying results will come - we hear endless managers say this on the slide down a table.

He needs to be more flexible - we are not Man City , in-fact very few teams are playing this over possession football now as it doesn't work against teams that are at your level- the oppo just wait for your slow build up, get in position, take you man for man.  He can train them for months , but all i see is their own decision making, creativity and flexibility in game being killed off for the sake of paint by numbers training ground football.

When it does work like last nights goal, quick fluid direct passing we do it twice then stop doing what worked , almost as if they have to go back to Liam's sideways, slow, and sadly boring rulebook

We all Like Liam but he needs help and advice from someone who knows what it takes to be successful in League 1 

I've been following us for 40 years but this playing style is becoming difficult to watch - id rather us be direct , win some easily and then other weeks get beat - c'mon Liam, have a look what the successful teams are doing in this league 

Up the rams 

[FindernRam]

It seems to me that most of our recent managers have favoured this play from the back style. I guess that's what you get from all taking the same coaching badges. Therefore, a change of manager is unlikely to help.

Even top teams get caught by it. Liverpool are a prime example at the moment, and Spurs the other night. You have to break fast if you are doing this.

[WestStandStartTheBounce]

37 minutes ago, LN747 said:

A big problem now is that this playing style and its lack of results especially away from home is obviously not working- at what point does Liam think it will? How long will he keep saying results will come - we hear endless managers say this on the slide down a table.

He needs to be more flexible - we are not Man City , in-fact very few teams are playing this over possession football now as it doesn't work against teams that are at your level- the oppo just wait for your slow build up, get in position, take you man for man.  He can train them for months , but all i see is their own decision making, creativity and flexibility in game being killed off for the sake of paint by numbers training ground football.

When it does work like last nights goal, quick fluid direct passing we do it twice then stop doing what worked , almost as if they have to go back to Liam's sideways, slow, and sadly boring rulebook

We all Like Liam but he needs help and advice from someone who knows what it takes to be successful in League 1 

I've been following us for 40 years but this playing style is becoming difficult to watch - id rather us be direct , win some easily and then other weeks get beat - c'mon Liam, have a look what the successful teams are doing in this league 

Up the rams 

paint by numbers training ground football. That's a good phrase and nicely sums it up I think. It's all too obvious.

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, Oldben said:

I think the decision to offer the role to Rosenoir was based on need at the time.

A club needed to be rebuilt fast from a very difficult place.

Multiple recruitment decisions had to be taken.

The recruitment decisions weren't made on the basis of if we had a transfer budget, but on who we could bring in as a free agent.

In my opinion the correct decision was taken to recruit experienced players who had previous championship or promotion from League one experience.

I'm not saying that some of those older players have resale value if we don't get promoted this season.

That built up a team, a huge amount of players brought in.

Most teams in League one brought in a couple of players, we brought in a team. That takes time to gel.

Rosenior was a gamble, but who could you get to come in at short notice that was experienced with the club.

Would I have preferred a different manager,maybe John Terry or Judy marsh if they had accepted the offer to manage the club.

The question isn't easy to answer, that's because if your a decent manager and your offered a job in League one, with a team that requires a complete rebuild and doesn't come with a transfer budget for two year, that might not interest the people you want to hire as manager.

Sure, the interim appointment was fine. And he may still make good. But there’ll need to be a big change before he’s made permanent 

[Tamworthram]

3 hours ago, Jubbs said:

Fotmob has it: 1.39 xG (Lincoln)vs 0.89 xG (Derby) but not penalty xG would be:

0.60xG vs 0.89xG.

Ours doesn't include our 2 offside goals which would have been around 0.7/0.8xG combined, making our total around 1.6/1.7xG

Does that all mean we "played well" then? Because it didn't look it to me.

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, Topram said:

 

Has to start to realise that this passing around the back isn’t working, we just look scared to do it, 

 

I certainly think it scared Tommo. He likes to be racing around and facing forwards. Retreating for all this tippy tapping on the edge of his own box doesn’t suit him at all and has undermined his confidence. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Ambitious said:

The entitled Derby fans are back and in full voice.

This particular Derby fan is most concerned that there might be some entitled Derby players who think they only have to turn up to get 3 points at Lincoln.

Rosenior (subject of the thread) and stubbornness over tactics which seem to have divided the forum ("they work but we keep missing chances so all we can do is wait for a goal bonanza" Vs. "they don't work but when they do we keep missing chances anyway") are a separate issue!

[Oldben]

3 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Sure, the interim appointment was fine. And he may still make good. But there’ll need to be a big change before he’s made permanent 

I've mentioned my reasons for why I think he was selected.

I personally think you need a certain kind of manager, someone who can build something out of nothing.

I don't know who fits the bill and would willingly take the role, given what was on the table as part of the offer ie zero transfer budget for two years

I'd have liked to have seen one of the top four managers in League one take the role, but what do they get in return without a transfer budget.

The club lost its tactician, as they followed, Rooney to the usa.

We need a new tactician.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-wayne-rooney-shuttleworth-7323733.amp

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, kevinhectoring said:

I certainly think it scared Tommo. He likes to be racing around and facing forwards. Retreating for all this tippy tapping on the edge of his own box doesn’t suit him at all and has undermined his confidence. 

Always better to have more than one string to your bow apparently.  The thing about versatile players normally equates to equally crap in all positions.  The good ones tend to play in the same place for 15 years, then start filling in.  If there good there, play them there.

[Ram-Alf]

11 minutes ago, Oldben said:

 

The club lost its tactician, as they followed, Rooney to the usa.

We need a new tactician.

 

That tactician we lost doesn't seem to be doing very well, W1 D3 L6 since WR has been DCs Manager, Not sure when he took up the role tho?‍♀️

[Anag Ram]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

I haven't got any xG stuff...

 

The stats show an alarming lack of backbone. We are flat track bullies; good on our own patch but not great in the hostile environment of an away game.

Last night we were hurried by an average bunch of busy players.

We have to win the physical battles (and I mean match them for energy as well as desire) before our footballing skill can be displayed.

We need more Shinnies and fewer Minnies.

[BondJovi]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

It isn't getting much out of Sibley either.

The last time we had Sibley, Knight and Bird all playing well at the same time was the pre lockdown spell under Cocu. The run of games before Sibley came in, Bird and Knight were playing very well.

On and off since Mac1 we have persisted with a style of play that requires very specific skill sets in certain positions and a style that gets harder to use effectively the lower down the league system you get. I suspect things could have been highly different had Cocu been able to keep Martin and/or sign Dursun. Much like when Mac2 tried to return us to that style after having made us hard to beat, we didn't have the players.

What we also face now is being the team the others will raise their game against.

I can't sit here and criticise the philosophy when I fully supported it under Cocu,  but I fear we are taking it beyond what it was meant to be and unnecessarily making life so much harder for ourselves, particularly away from home.

The problem for Rosenior is he comes with the baggage of the last few seasons, we see all the hallmarks of what has gone before and fans will be less patient than they perhaps should be. But if we keep seeing Knight at rb I fear this won't end well.