James Chester - Signed 1 year deal

[alram]

9 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Also, filling the squad out with loans is the opposite of not looking to the next transfer window and is by definition the short term-ism you’re arguing against. Loans can add quality, I’m all for them, but arguing against short term fixes then promoting loans as the answer doesn’t stack up for me.

No but you are minimising costs, loans are given for player development and there could be a pathway to sign them.

 

hourihane / chester is doing nothing apart from costing the club a lot of money at the chance they might win a game.

[Rammy03]

33 minutes ago, alram said:

the thing i have against this signing is that we are making the mistakes we made in the past. blinded by the players track record and thinking bloody hell he will be good. how often does it really work out like that? for me its doing the same thing we spent the last 5 years doing and have wasted a monumentum amount of money doing so. i just dont want us to do it again.

Just isn't though is it? By that logic then we can no longer sign any players over the age of 28.

These players are coming in on a free transfer. They don't have to come here, they could probably just as easily go to another club in a higher division that will pay higher wages. They are coming here because they want to play for Derby County.

This isn't paying 4 million pounds for 30 year old Ikechi Anya on a 4 year deal. There is a massive difference. There is simply no comparison.

[Caerphilly Ram]

Just now, alram said:

No but you are minimising costs, loans are given for player development and there could be a pathway to sign them.

 

hourihane / chester is doing nothing apart from costing the club a lot of money at the chance they might win a game.

Your points seem contradictory;

- you promote the use of loans here yet earlier replied to another poster who referenced the Lampard season as an example stating it was a problem we didn’t own any of those players.

- you say loans minimise cost and yet we paid large loan fees for certain recent loanees. Signing an out of contract player who can contribute to the club for 2-3 seasons seems more cost effective to me.

- you say we can’t afford to pay the excessive wages experienced pros will demand and also point out we’ll have to work under sensible financial constraints. (So if they did sign for us it would be within an agreed budget)

- paying money for players with the chance of them winning games for us is the entire purpose of it. That’s their job.

[Animal is a Ram]

57 minutes ago, alram said:

how is it unconstructive?

 

all i said was i want us to build a young team, not a team with old players on big wages. as much as people try to paint it players like hourihane and chester will be on vast amounts compared to the average wage in this division

 

i dont live in a fairtale land where i expect us to sign all the best young players but i would rather put the money saved on wages aside for transfers even if they are not as good players it gives us players to improve.

 

it appears im in the minority to which i say fair enough but nobody is going to make me think signing players like chester and hourihane is anything but a bad idea

I'd love us to build a young hungry team too. But that's not the pond we're fishing in. Plus, you need some battle hardned veterans in the midst of it.

We were limited to £6k/w whilst under administration. Unknown what it'll change to once we leave admin, but I can't imagine it'll be much above £10k/w for this season at least, if not into next season.

We also don't want to block the paths of the young players that are still here. I'd be amazed if they're all still here, but the team still contains Bielik, Bird, Knight, Sibley, Stretton, with contracts offered to Cashin, Thompson and a host of others.

Hourihane is only 31. Chester is 33. I'd say they're good ages for their respective positions, hardly old. Barkhuizen, also linked, is 28. That's only 3 of the 10 signings quoted. They might also be the three oldest.

I get your concern with wages, the last thing we want is a repeat, but it just won't happen under the EFL's business plan.

[BobdeBilder]

Kevin De Bruyne is 31, just saying. ?

[RoyMac5]

22 minutes ago, BobdeBilder said:

Kevin De Bruyne is 31, just saying. ?

Did Mrs Ince recommend him too?

[Shang]

14 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

This isn't Football Manager. You need a blend of youth and experience, not just a squad of 23 players under the age of 23.

We will likely go into next season with at least 11 players aged 21 or younger even before we make a signing. [Foulkes, Cashin, Bardell, Buchanan, Bird, Knight, Sibley, Thompson, Watson, Stretton and Sibley]. They need experience around them to learn off. It's a major reason behind how we did as well as we did last season, with Davies, Stearman, Jagielka, Kazim, Shinnie, Baldock being the experienced players in the dressing room helping the youngsters around them.
It's why Man Utd field Paul McShane in U23 games despite being 36. Brighton field a 35 year old at CM for their U23s. 26 year old Baker for Chelsea. 32 year old Lancashire for Southampton.

That's actually one of the only positives of having Ikechi Anya around. He was in the 23s as he was frozen out but apparently was great with mentoring the kids and supporting their growth.

[Tyler Durden]

2 hours ago, alram said:

and where did it get us in the end? 

 

the answer is absolutely nowhere because we didnt own any of the young players. 

You could argue that's not because we had a lot of loan players that's because they were poorly managed.

Forest seemed to do OK last season didn't they with a raft of loanees?

They actually achieved what we have been striving and failing to achieve over the past number of seasons. So it does work.

[alram]

they also own young players like johnson and worrall who are there best players.

 

our foundations were built on sand,  when we didnt go up we lost all squad value. if they hadnt gone up they would have sold them two for about 20 million.

 

i am advocating using the loan market. just build a young squad and not invest heavily in old players

Edited June 29, 2022 by alram

[Asanovic70]

I think last season showed that when two key experienced players left, this had a detrimental effect on the squad/team (Shinnie & Jagielka). Experienced players bring nous & know-how, as well as a bit of grittiness to proceedings. We also need to bring in a few players in their prime (26 onwards), which may prove difficult as these often command fees & wages & everybody else is competing for their signature.

We need to get a balance, the right amount of older heads alongside the promising youngsters. Hourihane is interesting, but a surprise to be linked with us after playing for Sheff United (relegated PL side who could probably afford to pay his wages). He may be a player attracted by the prospective of joining a long-term project at a big club that has fallen but is expected to regroup after being on loan at Swansea & Sheff United.

I'm not going to have a go at a poster who may feel disquiet after what has happened. We do need to learn from our lessons (says a gambler/mug punter) but unfortunately football is about boom & bust, & we all buy into it, getting carried away (Pickering, ABC loan, crippling debts, to Mel Morris). We have to learn to be reasonable & we need to be prepared to buy into a project like the Swansea fans did over the last decade & a half. 

Not as well versed as others on here in terms of finance , vis @Carnero, etc, but the fact that we are paying 25p in the pound means we will be subject to EFL scrutiny for two seasons, I think, as creditors would  rightly feel aggrieved if we suddenly began to revert to type & pay overinflated wages & fees.

But the fact that we could have an experienced defender alongside Cashin bodes well, and the quality of player that we are being linked with may help us retain the ones  already at the club (Byrne, Buchanan).

[Ghost of Clough]

4 hours ago, alram said:

thats our revenue as a championship club. not a league one club, there will be a big difference

That's in L1. We were at £28m in the Rowett season and would have exceeded that in following seasons if not for Covid.

[Jimbo Ram]

4 hours ago, BobdeBilder said:

Kevin De Bruyne is 31, just saying. ?

I am confused, what are you just saying again ?

[Red_ram]

8 hours ago, alram said:

hourihane / chester is doing nothing apart from costing the club a lot of money at the chance they might win a game.

Isn’t this the fundamental of modern football?

I can’t see the business plan allowing for too much audacious spending, even on wages. The pot we’ve got, if we went big on a couple of players I doubt there’d be enough to even fill the rest of the squad.

im sceptical those signings would happen and if they do you’d hope it’s because the project appeals of a bit of a sleeping giant and a strong chance of first team football.

[Rammy03]

 

[Big Trav]

Led to believe that Davies, cashin, Tommo and stearman have all agreed new deals and will officially sign once the takeover is announced

[Ghost of Clough]

27 minutes ago, Big Trav said:

Led to believe that Davies, cashin, Tommo and stearman have all agreed new deals and will officially sign once the takeover is announced

Anything on Foulkes, Forsyth, Watson, Kazim, Aghatise and Dixon?

I think it's safe to assume Lawrence and Ravel won't stay with us ?

[Big Trav]

17 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Anything on Foulkes, Forsyth, Watson, Kazim, Aghatise and Dixon?

I think it's safe to assume Lawrence and Ravel won't stay with us ?

I expect them all above to be offered deals and expect all to stay to be honest. Don’t know for certain on that. Rav, Lawrence and Byrne look set to depart 

[CBX1985]

19 hours ago, Asanovic70 said:

I think last season showed that when two key experienced players left, this had a detrimental effect on the squad/team (Shinnie & Jagielka). Experienced players bring nous & know-how, as well as a bit of grittiness to proceedings. We also need to bring in a few players in their prime (26 onwards), which may prove difficult as these often command fees & wages & everybody else is competing for their signature.

We need to get a balance, the right amount of older heads alongside the promising youngsters. Hourihane is interesting, but a surprise to be linked with us after playing for Sheff United (relegated PL side who could probably afford to pay his wages). He may be a player attracted by the prospective of joining a long-term project at a big club that has fallen but is expected to regroup after being on loan at Swansea & Sheff United.

I'm not going to have a go at a poster who may feel disquiet after what has happened. We do need to learn from our lessons (says a gambler/mug punter) but unfortunately football is about boom & bust, & we all buy into it, getting carried away (Pickering, ABC loan, crippling debts, to Mel Morris). We have to learn to be reasonable & we need to be prepared to buy into a project like the Swansea fans did over the last decade & a half. 

Not as well versed as others on here in terms of finance , vis @Carnero, etc, but the fact that we are paying 25p in the pound means we will be subject to EFL scrutiny for two seasons, I think, as creditors would  rightly feel aggrieved if we suddenly began to revert to type & pay overinflated wages & fees.

But the fact that we could have an experienced defender alongside Cashin bodes well, and the quality of player that we are being linked with may help us retain the ones  already at the club (Byrne, Buchanan).

I suppose it also comes down to what some people want.  Everyone always assumes players want long term deals.  We are not in a place to offer those, so might benefit - we want you for one year.  This is appealing as if i.e. Premier League club wants to come in, they can go fee free. 

Our advantage is we have so few players we need to be flexible in what we offer.  Think of your own lives - that flexibility can be appealing.  Most clubs loathe to offer it as they want ongoing stability.   

[Mostyn6]

55 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Anything on Foulkes, Forsyth, Watson, Kazim, Aghatise and Dixon?

I think it's safe to assume Lawrence and Ravel won't stay with us ?

who, who and who? I think I've heard of 2,3 and 4!

[Ghost of Clough]

19 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

who, who and who? I think I've heard of 2,3 and 4!