James Chester - Signed 1 year deal

[Taribo]

We could do with Mrs Ince's list, the players on it are a couple of years older now and probably willing to drop down to League One, what's that french guy up to, is he available on a free?

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Taribo said:

We could do with Mrs Ince's list, the players on it are a couple of years older now and probably willing to drop down to League One, what's that french guy up to, is he available on a free?

We couldn't afford to import all those croissants he'd demand apparently.

[alram]

1 hour ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

We've been in administration almost a year, we've not been able to make a signing for god knows how long, we were on the brink of not even having a club anymore.

We finally look like we might be coming out the other side and some of our fans are moaning about potentially signing Conor Hourihane in league one.

Some of our fans really are something else. Give me strength.

 

no i dont think its about signing conor hourihane

 

its about repeating the same mistakes which got us here in the first place.

 

i am over the moon we are even talking about players but lets be realistic here we cannot repeat the same mistakes.

[Ghost of Clough]

2 minutes ago, alram said:

no i dont think its about signing conor hourihane

its about repeating the same mistakes which got us here in the first place.

i am over the moon we are even talking about players but lets be realistic here we cannot repeat the same mistakes.

We got in this position from spending about £300m on players (transfer fees and wages) when we have a revenue of £150m from the start of 15/16 through to the end of 20/21 (sales of about £60m over that period)

There is nothing to suggest our wage expenditure will exceed our revenue. If anything, all evidence points towards us spending much less on wages (as a percentage of revenue) than most in our league.

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 hour ago, alram said:

glad you chaps have faith in the efl transfer restrictions that would stop us getting into financial damage, worked well last time didnt it.

 

i just feel its the completely wrong direction to go down, journeymen players on big wages. almost a league one tribute act of our championship dealings under mel. we have to move on from these type of players. old teams just dont do very well anymore, football is a young mans game.

I’d argue football is a team game and a team is more than the sum of it’s parts. A squad made up entirely of young players who are still developing physically, learning the game and building their experience may be exciting, and it may also be bullied and whipped week in week out. A team made up entirely of old pros who have been there and done it might be able to deal with the mental rigours of the game but be exposed by pace and athleticism. A blend of both youth and experience could well see us steady this rocking ship that is Derby County and avoid successive relegations/lead to an unlikely promotion charge or something in-between. 
Man City have a blend of youth and experience, as do Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs etc. The teams promoted from the championship were the same. 
What’s wrong with waiting to see who we sign and what the make up of the squad looks like before panicking too much? It’s a relief to think we might actually be able to sign some players again. 

[Animal is a Ram]

2 hours ago, alram said:

glad you chaps have faith in the efl transfer restrictions that would stop us getting into financial damage, worked well last time didnt it.

 

i just feel its the completely wrong direction to go down, journeymen players on big wages. almost a league one tribute act of our championship dealings under mel. we have to move on from these type of players. old teams just dont do very well anymore, football is a young mans game.

You can't moan about us being within a budget, then go on about signing younger players who will cost us more!

Look at the pond we will be forced to fish in. Those younger players will a) command fees and b) command wages that interest them from the club you're taking them from. 

We have only been under salary restrictions since admin. We were under no such restrictions while Mel got us in this mess.

At least try to understand the situation we're in, rather than unconstructive moaning.

[Rammy03]

3 hours ago, alram said:

glad you chaps have faith in the efl transfer restrictions that would stop us getting into financial damage, worked well last time didnt it.

 

i just feel its the completely wrong direction to go down, journeymen players on big wages. almost a league one tribute act of our championship dealings under mel. we have to move on from these type of players. old teams just dont do very well anymore, football is a young mans game.

Calm down. One of the reasons we did so well under Lampard was because we had a great mix of youth and experience. We had the talent in Wilson, Mount, Tomori, Bogle etc. but they were also helped along by the experience and elder statesmen such as Keogh, Bryson, Johnson, Huddlestone, Nugent, Cole, I could go on...

Edited June 29, 2022 by Rammy03

[alram]

2 hours ago, Animal is a Ram said:

You can't moan about us being within a budget, then go on about signing younger players who will cost us more!

Look at the pond we will be forced to fish in. Those younger players will a) command fees and b) command wages that interest them from the club you're taking them from. 

We have only been under salary restrictions since admin. We were under no such restrictions while Mel got us in this mess.

At least try to understand the situation we're in, rather than unconstructive moaning.

how is it unconstructive?

 

all i said was i want us to build a young team, not a team with old players on big wages. as much as people try to paint it players like hourihane and chester will be on vast amounts compared to the average wage in this division

 

i dont live in a fairtale land where i expect us to sign all the best young players but i would rather put the money saved on wages aside for transfers even if they are not as good players it gives us players to improve.

 

it appears im in the minority to which i say fair enough but nobody is going to make me think signing players like chester and hourihane is anything but a bad idea

[alram]

47 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

Calm down. One of the reasons we did so well under Lampard was because we had a great mix of youth and experience. We had the talent in Wilson, Mount, Tomori, Bogle etc. but they were also helped along by the experience and elder statesmen such as Keogh, Bryson, Johnson, Huddlestone, Nugent, Cole, I could go on...

and where did it get us in the end? 

 

the answer is absolutely nowhere because we didnt own any of the young players. 

[Ghost of Clough]

2 minutes ago, alram said:

how is it unconstructive?

 

all i said was i want us to build a young team, not a team with old players on big wages. as much as people try to paint it players like hourihane and chester will be on vast amounts compared to the average wage in this division

 

i dont live in a fairtale land where i expect us to sign all the best young players but i would rather put the money saved on wages aside for transfers even if they are not as good players it gives us players to improve.

 

it appears im in the minority to which i say fair enough but nobody is going to make me think signing players like chester and hourihane is anything but a bad idea

Why compare us with the average L1 side? Our revenue this season won't be too far off Sheff Weds revenue when they were in the Championship. Our revenue will be double that of Bolton and Charlton, who will both in the top 6 for revenue.

[alram]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Why compare us with the average L1 side? Our revenue this season won't be too far off Sheff Weds revenue when they were in the Championship. Our revenue will be double that of Bolton and Charlton, who will both in the top 6 for revenue.

what is that based on?

 

we will be under efl transfer restrictions regardless of our revenues that other clubs arent.

 

we will not have financial clout in this division until we are properly out of administration (may not happen even after a takeover) and we are stabalised as a club with proper revenues being brought in through ticket sales and sponsorships - currently we have neither. clowes will have to put a lump sum in immediately to cover this seasons revenues if we are going to compete.

[Rample]

It is so nice to be nearer to idle speculation than it is wrist slashing.

WIldsmith

Chester Davies Cashin

Byrne Thompson/Knight Bird Forsyth

Barkhuizen Hourihane/Sibley

CKR

At least its a starting point. Add 1 or 2 more and it could look pretty decent.

In a way Rosie gets to do a bit of shaping with so little on the board, can set us up as whatever he prefers - 442, 352, 4231, 433? and balance the squad accordingly.

[Caerphilly Ram]

5 minutes ago, alram said:

how is it unconstructive?

 

all i said was i want us to build a young team, not a team with old players on big wages. as much as people try to paint it players like hourihane and chester will be on vast amounts compared to the average wage in this division

 

i dont live in a fairtale land where i expect us to sign all the best young players but i would rather put the money saved on wages aside for transfers even if they are not as good players it gives us players to improve.

 

it appears im in the minority to which i say fair enough but nobody is going to make me think signing players like chester and hourihane is anything but a bad idea

Let’s look at one of the rumoured players in isolation.
Hourihane is 31, he’s not quite at the end of his career. Realistically he could have another 3/4/5 years in him. He has captained sides in the past, experienced promotions from league one to the championship and from the championship to the premier league. He’s played at league one, championship and premier league level. His injury record is pretty much non-existent, and he’s scored goals and assisted goals throughout his career.

It is widely reported we will not be in a position to offer “big” wages and as a free agent Hourihane will be on a weekly sum of £0 per week until he does sign for a new club. 

What is it other than a number on a page that you have against this as a potential signing? We’ve signed plenty of players in the past in the twilight of their careers (which Hourihane is not) who have done very well for the club. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

6 minutes ago, alram said:

what is that based on?

 

we will be under efl transfer restrictions regardless of our revenues that other clubs arent.

 

we will not have financial clout in this division until we are properly out of administration (may not happen even after a takeover) and we are stabalised as a club with proper revenues being brought in through ticket sales and sponsorships - currently we have neither. clowes will have to put a lump sum in immediately to cover this seasons revenues if we are going to compete.

Doesn’t this negate your argument that signing any experienced players on large wages is a problem? If any of the rumoured players do end up signing with us they will be on agreed wages within a budget, we won’t be paying fees for them, and they can help the club progress on the pitch at the same time as bringing in and developing youth, best of both worlds ??‍♂️ 

[alram]

5 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Let’s look at one of the rumoured players in isolation.
Hourihane is 31, he’s not quite at the end of his career. Realistically he could have another 3/4/5 years in him. He has captained sides in the past, experienced promotions from league one to the championship and from the championship to the premier league. He’s played at league one, championship and premier league level. His injury record is pretty much non-existent, and he’s scored goals and assisted goals throughout his career.

It is widely reported we will not be in a position to offer “big” wages and as a free agent Hourihane will be on a weekly sum of £0 per week until he does sign for a new club. 

What is it other than a number on a page that you have against this as a potential signing? We’ve signed plenty of players in the past in the twilight of their careers (which Hourihane is not) who have done very well for the club. 

he was on 40k a week at villa!

 

he wont get out of bed for 3k a week or whatever people think he might take. he will be one of the highest paid players in the division. 

 

you are right i am not disputing his quality, he is a quality player for this division but what is our goal this season? if we dont think we can guarentee a promotion push then its money down the drain that would be better off spent on a younger player who can improve. 

 

the thing i have against this signing is that we are making the mistakes we made in the past. blinded by the players track record and thinking bloody hell he will be good. how often does it really work out like that? for me its doing the same thing we spent the last 5 years doing and have wasted a monumentum amount of money doing so. i just dont want us to do it again.

 

stabalise the club with young players that can be treated as ASSETS and fill the rest out with loan players. for once, just once we need to look past the next transfer window as supporters.

[Ghost of Clough]

Just now, alram said:

what is that based on?

 

we will be under efl transfer restrictions regardless of our revenues that other clubs arent.

 

we will not have financial clout in this division until we are properly out of administration (may not happen even after a takeover) and we are stabalised as a club with proper revenues being brought in through ticket sales and sponsorships - currently we have neither. clowes will have to put a lump sum in immediately to cover this seasons revenues if we are going to compete.

Based on looking at the accounts for every club in the division next season ?

Derby are a massive club by L1 standards. Top 6 revenues in 22/23:
1. Derby - £18m
2. Sheff Weds - £14m
3. Portsmouth - £12.7m
4. Ipswich - £11.2m
5. Bolton - £9.3m
6. Charlton - £9m

Portsmouth will have a wage budget of less than £8m... just 44% of our estimated revenue!

[Ghost of Clough]

5 minutes ago, alram said:

stabalise the club with young players that can be treated as ASSETS and fill the rest out with loan players. for once, just once we need to look past the next transfer window as supporters.

This isn't Football Manager. You need a blend of youth and experience, not just a squad of 23 players under the age of 23.

We will likely go into next season with at least 11 players aged 21 or younger even before we make a signing. [Foulkes, Cashin, Bardell, Buchanan, Bird, Knight, Sibley, Thompson, Watson, Stretton and Sibley]. They need experience around them to learn off. It's a major reason behind how we did as well as we did last season, with Davies, Stearman, Jagielka, Kazim, Shinnie, Baldock being the experienced players in the dressing room helping the youngsters around them.
It's why Man Utd field Paul McShane in U23 games despite being 36. Brighton field a 35 year old at CM for their U23s. 26 year old Baker for Chelsea. 32 year old Lancashire for Southampton.

[Caerphilly Ram]

26 minutes ago, alram said:

the thing i have against this signing is that we are making the mistakes we made in the past. blinded by the players track record and thinking bloody hell he will be good. how often does it really work out like that? for me its doing the same thing we spent the last 5 years doing and have wasted a monumentum amount of money doing so. i just dont want us to do it again.

 

stabalise the club with young players that can be treated as ASSETS and fill the rest out with loan players. for once, just once we need to look past the next transfer window as supporters.

Based on the retained list submitted to the EFL we will have some young players we can treat as assets, we know Festy and Ebiowei are off, some of the others may still stay;

https://www.efl.com/contentassets/183721110af1407d87d5d77408a07201/efl-professional-retain-list---2021-22.pdf

I agree we could perhaps do with adding a couple more on frees from league 2/league 1/the championship/the premier league academies. Only a handful of those will have experience of a full league campaign, it will help them develop and succeed having a handful of experienced pros to play and train alongside. 7/8 experienced pros (including those rumoured to be staying on from last year), 10/12 of our existing youth, 3/4/5 youngsters picked up on frees would give us a solid squad to stabilise over the next year or two, if not to bounce straight back to championship level.

It’s clear we’re not going to agree on this one, I think we need some experienced and ideally good quality pros alongside the younger players in order to achieve whatever the target will be for this year. 
 

Also, filling the squad out with loans is the opposite of not looking to the next transfer window and is by definition the short term-ism you’re arguing against. Loans can add quality, I’m all for them, but arguing against short term fixes then promoting loans as the answer doesn’t stack up for me.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Caerphilly Ram

[alram]

16 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

This isn't Football Manager. You need a blend of youth and experience, not just a squad of 23 players under the age of 23.

We will likely go into next season with at least 11 players aged 21 or younger even before we make a signing. [Foulkes, Cashin, Bardell, Buchanan, Bird, Knight, Sibley, Thompson, Watson, Stretton and Sibley]. They need experience around them to learn off. It's a major reason behind how we did as well as we did last season, with Davies, Stearman, Jagielka, Kazim, Shinnie, Baldock being the experienced players in the dressing room helping the youngsters around them.
It's why Man Utd field Paul McShane in U23 games despite being 36. Brighton field a 35 year old at CM for their U23s. 26 year old Baker for Chelsea. 32 year old Lancashire for Southampton.

who said anything about building a team under the age of 23?

 

we already have experience in the squad if we sign up the likes of curtis, stearman and kazim.

 

i just think we should avoid big earners that are old and only on the decline. it is not that much of a outrageous claim is it?

[alram]

29 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Based on looking at the accounts for every club in the division next season ?

Derby are a massive club by L1 standards. Top 6 revenues in 22/23:
1. Derby - £18m
2. Sheff Weds - £14m
3. Portsmouth - £12.7m
4. Ipswich - £11.2m
5. Bolton - £9.3m
6. Charlton - £9m

Portsmouth will have a wage budget of less than £8m... just 44% of our estimated revenue!

thats our revenue as a championship club. not a league one club, there will be a big difference