On Going Punishments

[1of4]

  Hopefully the ownership of the club will soon be resolved and we can get on with preparations for next seaon. But with the possibility of more points deductions, along with strict financial spending limits that are being imposed by the ELF. Will we be looking at another season like the one we have just experienced, with the EFL doing everything it can to hamper us?

Will the club be able to put a viable team out, that will be able to compete on an even footing with the other teams in league one?

[B4ev6is]

2 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

  Hopefully the ownership of the club will soon be resolved and we can get on with preparations for next seaon. But with the possibility of more points deductions, along with strict financial spending limits that are being imposed by the ELF. Will we be looking at another season like the one we have just experienced, with the EFL doing everything it can to hamper us?

Will the club be able to put a viable team out, that will be able to compete on an even footing with the other teams in league one?

Well I have seen there will be no more points ducetions and I dont see how they can after a statement saying going give kircher a fresh start at derby meaning derby county will get a fresh start too. I think with most of debt will paid off and rest over 3 years.

[Cam the Ram]

Unless something has changed we shouldn't have any more points deductions for next season. It was reported (and I think confirmed or at least hinted at by Kirchner) that the purchase price was enough to meet the minimum requirements of the EFL for repaying back some of the debts. I think it's 25% repaid immediately once the takeover is completed or 35% repaid back over a maximum of 3 years to avoid any points deductions and CK is doing the latter. 

As for the EFL spending limits, we should probably have a look at Wigan who's situation shared some similarities to ours. Towards the end of last season they came out of administration and paid back 25% of the debts owed to avoid any points deductions. They then signed some solid League 1 players on frees (Power, Wyke, Cousins etc.) and despite presumably being under restrictions determined by the EFL, they were still able to pay transfer fees for players (Shinnie 30k, McGrath 150k, Kerr 600k, Humphrys undisclosed, Tilt undisclosed 6 figure fee, Jones undisclosed fee, McClean undisclosed fee and Magennis undisclosed fee). So you're looking at somewhere between 1 and 2 million spent despite just coming out of administration. They sold just 1 player for a fee (Joseph 500k) and you'd assume we'd bring in at least that amount, but hopefully much more, from the likely exit of Bielik and any others who are sold.

So, it all comes down to whether that wonderful, trustworthy organisation known as the EFL treat Derby County the same as Wigan Athletic. Nothing to worry about then, right? ?

[B4ev6is]

Well I think efl been shown in a bad light I think be best interests to now lay of derby county now let new era begin on a level footing.

[Cam the Ram]

18 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

Unless something has changed we shouldn't have any more points deductions for next season. It was reported (and I think confirmed or at least hinted at by Kirchner) that the purchase price was enough to meet the minimum requirements of the EFL for repaying back some of the debts. I think it's 25% repaid immediately once the takeover is completed or 35% repaid back over a maximum of 3 years to avoid any points deductions and CK is doing the latter. 

As for the EFL spending limits, we should probably have a look at Wigan who's situation shared some similarities to ours. Towards the end of last season they came out of administration and paid back 25% of the debts owed to avoid any points deductions. They then signed some solid League 1 players on frees (Power, Wyke, Cousins etc.) and despite presumably being under restrictions determined by the EFL, they were still able to pay transfer fees for players (Shinnie 30k, McGrath 150k, Kerr 600k, Humphrys undisclosed, Tilt undisclosed 6 figure fee, Jones undisclosed fee, McClean undisclosed fee and Magennis undisclosed fee). So you're looking at somewhere between 1 and 2 million spent despite just coming out of administration. They sold just 1 player for a fee (Joseph 500k) and you'd assume we'd bring in at least that amount, but hopefully much more, from the likely exit of Bielik and any others who are sold.

So, it all comes down to whether that wonderful, trustworthy organisation known as the EFL treat Derby County the same as Wigan Athletic. Nothing to worry about then, right? ?

Just to add, I personally don't think we'll spend much if any at all in transfer fees and will instead deal mostly with free agents and cheap loans. I just wanted to point out that points deductions and EFL restrictions shouldn't be too much of a concern if the EFL are to remain consistent in their handling of clubs exiting administration.

[Crewton]

7 hours ago, B4ev6is said:

Well I have seen there will be no more points ducetions and I dont see how they can after a statement saying going give kircher a fresh start at derby meaning derby county will get a fresh start too. I think with most of debt will paid off and rest over 3 years.

Unfortunately B4, at best, unsecured creditors will only get 35% of what they are owed, and judging by the figures being reported, HMRC will lose out substantially too if they agree to accept the proposal. The only parties who are likely to be paid in full are Football Creditors and MSD. We need to bear that in mind if and when the takeover has been completed and all creditors have accepted their lot. There'll be allot of small companies out of pocket, undoubtedly. 

That reason alone is enough to make the payment of fees for transfers this season at least unpalatable, although the EFL business plan will probably forbid it anyway. Provided we stick to our obligations under that agreement, I believe they, at least, will leave us alone. 

[jimtastic56]

59 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Unfortunately B4, at best, unsecured creditors will only get 35% of what they are owed, and judging by the figures being reported, HMRC will lose out substantially too if they agree to accept the proposal. The only parties who are likely to be paid in full are Football Creditors and MSD. We need to bear that in mind if and when the takeover has been completed and all creditors have accepted their lot. There'll be allot of small companies out of pocket, undoubtedly. 

That reason alone is enough to make the payment of fees for transfers this season at least unpalatable, although the EFL business plan will probably forbid it anyway. Provided we stick to our obligations under that agreement, I believe they, at least, will leave us alone. 

A good summary of the situation.We would all love the EFL off our backs. But they will be watching us very closely for 3 years, making sure we stick to the payment plan etc.

[Ghost of Clough]

8 hours ago, Cam the Ram said:

Unless something has changed we shouldn't have any more points deductions for next season. It was reported (and I think confirmed or at least hinted at by Kirchner) that the purchase price was enough to meet the minimum requirements of the EFL for repaying back some of the debts. I think it's 25% repaid immediately once the takeover is completed or 35% repaid back over a maximum of 3 years to avoid any points deductions and CK is doing the latter. 

As for the EFL spending limits, we should probably have a look at Wigan who's situation shared some similarities to ours. Towards the end of last season they came out of administration and paid back 25% of the debts owed to avoid any points deductions. They then signed some solid League 1 players on frees (Power, Wyke, Cousins etc.) and despite presumably being under restrictions determined by the EFL, they were still able to pay transfer fees for players (Shinnie 30k, McGrath 150k, Kerr 600k, Humphrys undisclosed, Tilt undisclosed 6 figure fee, Jones undisclosed fee, McClean undisclosed fee and Magennis undisclosed fee). So you're looking at somewhere between 1 and 2 million spent despite just coming out of administration. They sold just 1 player for a fee (Joseph 500k) and you'd assume we'd bring in at least that amount, but hopefully much more, from the likely exit of Bielik and any others who are sold.

So, it all comes down to whether that wonderful, trustworthy organisation known as the EFL treat Derby County the same as Wigan Athletic. Nothing to worry about then, right? ?

Wigan went into administration in 2020 with a 25% creditor plan. They didn't pay a fee for any players in 20/21, relying on what was left of their academy, loans and frees. They did however, pay the fees you list in the 21/22 season.

Whilst they essentially had a 1 year ban, both windows fell when they were still in administration. The window immediately after the takeover, they spent a reasonable amount for L1 - behind only Charlton for net transfer spend. The question therefore is, was them paying 25% upfront the reason for them being able to spend cash on players straight away?
I can see both sides of the argument. Why should a club be allowed to spend cash on players when they haven't even paid the minimum amount. However, why should a club be punished more heavily if they're willing to commit to paying back more to creditors?

I expect us to sign a couple of players for modest fees, but I certainly won't be upset if we stick to free agents.

[Cam the Ram]

20 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Wigan went into administration in 2020 with a 25% creditor plan. They didn't pay a fee for any players in 20/21, relying on what was left of their academy, loans and frees. They did however, pay the fees you list in the 21/22 season.

Whilst they essentially had a 1 year ban, both windows fell when they were still in administration. The window immediately after the takeover, they spent a reasonable amount for L1 - behind only Charlton for net transfer spend. The question therefore is, was them paying 25% upfront the reason for them being able to spend cash on players straight away?
I can see both sides of the argument. Why should a club be allowed to spend cash on players when they haven't even paid the minimum amount. However, why should a club be punished more heavily if they're willing to commit to paying back more to creditors?

I expect us to sign a couple of players for modest fees, but I certainly won't be upset if we stick to free agents.

Yeah it probably will all revolve around the EFL's opinion on paying 25% immediately vs 35% over 3 years. So we're either going to end up like Wigan who seemingly had very little restrictions or we'll be waiting until the 2025 summer transfer window before we can trade as we wish. I assume they will have discussed and seen proof that CK can meet the 35% over the 3 years so I'd hope they'd trust it will be paid, especially as they were the people who had to pass him for the fit and proper owners test, but then again, you never know what you're going to get with the EFL's decision making.

[Oldben]

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/kieran-maguire-hints-at-potential-derby-county-supporter-discontent-following-chris-kirchners-takeover/

None of this is surprising.

I don't expect derby to be promoted next season.

I don't expect derby to be competitive next season, the team has to have a complete rebuild.

Derby will have many weak areas, that I feel certain will not be strengthened by loan players willing to play in League 1 or by over the hill free agents that were not already snapped up by championship teams.

I think derby have 3 years in League 1, while the debt to creditors is repaid.

Not sure any of this matters, as it least there will be a club.

 

[Ghost of Clough]

3 minutes ago, Oldben said:

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/kieran-maguire-hints-at-potential-derby-county-supporter-discontent-following-chris-kirchners-takeover/

None of this is surprising.

I don't expect derby to be promoted next season.

I do

3 minutes ago, Oldben said:

I don't expect derby to be competitive next season

I do

3 minutes ago, Oldben said:

the team has to have a complete rebuild.

As things stand, we're only losing Plange and Festy at the end of their contracts. I expect to lose a few others, but that is by no means a complete rebuild.

We basically lost 12 players at the end of the 20/21 season, we restricted by an embargo which meant a lot of L1 clubs could have offered more... yet still built a team capable of staying up.

3 minutes ago, Oldben said:

Derby will have many weak areas, that I feel certain will not be strengthened by loan players willing to play in League 1 or by over the hill free agents that were not already snapped up by championship teams.

And that's only your opinion that we can't get top end free agents in L1. Again, look at our recruitment last summer. Every single one of them did excellent for us so I see no reason why we can't do the same again.

3 minutes ago, Oldben said:

I think derby have 3 years in League 1, while the debt to creditors is repaid.

Not sure any of this matters, as it least there will be a club.

If it takes 3 years, then so be it. But, everyone at the club will be pushing for the title. Rooney won't be happy with less.

[Oldben]

Derbys free agent summer ...

Tom Lawrence

Curtis Davies

Ravel Morrison

Richard Stearman

Ryan Allsop

Malcolm Ebiowei

Eiran Cashin

Kelle Roos

Craig Forsyth

Liam Thompson

Nathan Byrne

Isaac Hutchinson

Colin Kazim-Richards

Louie Watson

Bartosz Cybulski

Osazee Aghatise

[i-Ram]

14 minutes ago, Oldben said:

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/kieran-maguire-hints-at-potential-derby-county-supporter-discontent-following-chris-kirchners-takeover/

None of this is surprising.

I don't expect derby to be promoted next season.

I don't expect derby to be competitive next season, the team has to have a complete rebuild.

Derby will have many weak areas, that I feel certain will not be strengthened by loan players willing to play in League 1 or by over the hill free agents that were not already snapped up by championship teams.

I think derby have 3 years in League 1, while the debt to creditors is repaid.

Not sure any of this matters, as it least there will be a club.

 

[cosmic]

16 minutes ago, Oldben said:

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/kieran-maguire-hints-at-potential-derby-county-supporter-discontent-following-chris-kirchners-takeover/

None of this is surprising.

I don't expect derby to be promoted next season.

I don't expect derby to be competitive next season, the team has to have a complete rebuild.

Derby will have many weak areas, that I feel certain will not be strengthened by loan players willing to play in League 1 or by over the hill free agents that were not already snapped up by championship teams.

I think derby have 3 years in League 1, while the debt to creditors is repaid.

Not sure any of this matters, as it least there will be a club.

 

The only thing not surprising is another dig from The Baron. Funny he's been challenged on here this week and then comes out with this. I thought he was a financial expert? Couldn't give a toss what his opinion is on other matters, let alone how he thinks us fans will act. Bore off.

[Sparkle]

22 minutes ago, Oldben said:

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/kieran-maguire-hints-at-potential-derby-county-supporter-discontent-following-chris-kirchners-takeover/

None of this is surprising.

I don't expect derby to be promoted next season.

I don't expect derby to be competitive next season, the team has to have a complete rebuild.

Derby will have many weak areas, that I feel certain will not be strengthened by loan players willing to play in League 1 or by over the hill free agents that were not already snapped up by championship teams.

I think derby have 3 years in League 1, while the debt to creditors is repaid.

Not sure any of this matters, as it least there will be a club.

 

Most of that I consider to be utter tosh but you are welcome  to your individual opinion 

[B4ev6is]

Well I think kircher will still offer most of those new contract why cant derby go and win league one next season.

[Caerphilly Ram]

Let’s hope Nixon’s sources know their stuff.

As has been mentioned a few times now, the right recruitment doesn’t necessarily mean spending loads of money (we’ve already disproved that myth on our way to the current predicament the club is in).

Multiple factors will dictate a players decision to sign for a club, yes money is a big motivator due to their short careers, but facilities will come into (state of the art training and recovery kit, good stadium, big ish crowd), Rooney will have some pull also, the chance to play more regularly etc etc.

If we can build a solid side that is more than the sum of it’s parts, using frees and loans, potentially a couple of modest fees then we could compete next year. Say he manages to convince some of the current squad to stay and adds a few more, like a goal scorer or two, what about that says we couldn’t compete? 

[Day]

Just now, B4ev6is said:

Well I think kircher will still offer most of those new contract why cant derby go and win league one next season.

No reason why we can’t, but we’re not the first nor will we be the last to go down there and struggle to bounce straight back up.

Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich and Charlton will tell you this.

History means nothing, we have to go down there and lose any arrogant thoughts that this will be easy, respecting the opposition and just getting behind the team.

Rooney has a huge rebuild job on his hands, it’s ok offering players new contracts, some won’t want to play in the 3rd tier, understandable.

Before we even think about the possibility of winning the league, let’s see what squad he can assemble over the next month and take it from there, assess our chances around Christmas to see where we are.

Creating huge expectations never end well, look at last season, the atmosphere around the club has never been better, why? Because most of us knew it was unlikely we could stay up and went into games just enjoying them.

There were no boo’s going in at half time as we were 0-0, there were no moans and groans when passes went astray, no we should be beating this team and that, it was just enjoyable.

We just wanted a club to support, and if we can continue that into next season it gives us an advantage, as when Pride Park is rocking it will no doubt give the players a lift.

Can we just look to take that forward into next season without talk of winning the league just yet?

[Anag Ram]

2 minutes ago, David said:

No reason why we can’t, but we’re not the first nor will we be the last to go down there and struggle to bounce straight back up.

Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich and Charlton will tell you this.

History means nothing, we have to go down there and lose any arrogant thoughts that this will be easy, respecting the opposition and just getting behind the team.

Rooney has a huge rebuild job on his hands, it’s ok offering players new contracts, some won’t want to play in the 3rd tier, understandable.

Before we even think about the possibility of winning the league, let’s see what squad he can assemble over the next month and take it from there, assess our chances around Christmas to see where we are.

Creating huge expectations never end well, look at last season, the atmosphere around the club has never been better, why? Because most of us knew it was unlikely we could stay up and went into games just enjoying them.

There were no boo’s going in at half time as we were 0-0, there were no moans and groans when passes went astray, no we should be beating this team and that, it was just enjoyable.

We just wanted a club to support, and if we can continue that into next season it gives us an advantage, as when Pride Park is rocking it will no doubt give the players a lift.

Can we just look to take that forward into next season without talk of winning the league just yet?

Just to add to this, we won’t be starting the season with the team that ended last season.

The new team will be playing together for the first time and so may well find catching up with more established teams tricky.

We shouldn’t be surprised if we start slowly. 
 

We have to have faith in the management team that we will have future success.

[Day]

1 minute ago, Anag Ram said:

Just to add to this, we won’t be starting the season with the team that ended last season.

The new team will be playing together for the first time and so may well find catching up with more established teams tricky.

We shouldn’t be surprised if we start slowly. 
 

We have to have faith in the management team that we will have future success.

Yeah, I think a slow start is pretty much a given with the amount of new faces around the place. Opening game of the season is at the end of July isn’t it? He’s going to have maybe 6 weeks absolute tops to create a team and on board with how he wants to play. That’s a tough ask.

Just thought though, you do you @B4ev6is, ignore me, all I would say is just don’t expect us all to fall in line with the we’re going to win the league talk just yet.