The Administration Thread

[RoyMac5]

22 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

£64m in losses over the past 2 seasons, but amazingly well clear of any P&S issues due to the Covid rule which allows clubs to average out 19/20 and 20/21 figures, whilst also including 18/19.  ...

My estimates suggest they need at east a £20m improvement on those losses from last season to avoid points deductions for the current period (max loss of £5m). Based on no sales so far this season, and seemingly not much of a reduction in wage bill, it'll be squeaky bum time for a few down in Bristol.
That is unless they cheated the system and claimed for Covid impairment on player values.

Oh no surely not. That would make Mr BC Ploppy a very unhappy man wouldn't it?! 

[ram59]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

£64m in losses over the past 2 seasons, but amazingly well clear of any P&S issues due to the Covid rule which allows clubs to average out 19/20 and 20/21 figures, whilst also including 18/19.

18/19 = £12.7m profit
19/20 & 20/21 average = £22.8m loss
21/22 = £26m loss

Even without deductions such as Covid and academy expenditure, they're within the £39m loss limit.

My estimates suggest they need at east a £20m improvement on those losses from last season to avoid points deductions for the current period (max loss of £5m). Based on no sales so far this season, and seemingly not much of a reduction in wage bill, it'll be squeaky bum time for a few down in Bristol.
That is unless they cheated the system and claimed for Covid impairment on player values.

So Bristol and maybe other clubs who lost only £4m in turnover because of covid, can lose over £60m over the last 3 years, which is over £20m more than allowed before receiving a points penalty, get off without punishment because the EFL make an allowance for covid. Yet we got no dispensation after going into administration, with covid playing a major part?

Surely, their average turnovers from just before and after covid should have been incorporated into their figures, for FFP purposes?

[Foreveram]

3 minutes ago, ram59 said:

So Bristol and maybe other clubs who lost only £4m in turnover because of covid, can lose over £60m over the last 3 years, which is over £20m more than allowed before receiving a points penalty, get off without punishment because the EFL make an allowance for covid. Yet we got no dispensation after going into administration, with covid playing a major part?

Surely, their average turnovers from just before and after covid should have been incorporated into their figures, for FFP purposes?

It’s almost like someone had it in for us.?

[jono]

1 hour ago, jono said:

I think you are wrong. Businesses trade with one another for profit. That trade and profit carry risk, which is part of doing business. Yes, certain creditors like St Johns ambulance or whatever might be seen to have been “shafted” but car leasing companies, burger suppliers, artificial turf suppliers etc know the commercial realities. With new owners they can chose whether to extend credit or not. As to the institution itself, it gets punished and sanctioned according to the rules. We got ours via 3 years of sanctions fines and 21 points deduction. I think it is fair that some control from the governing body is exercised but having been relegated, having had the squad torn apart there is a point where a new owner of a team that is now in a lower league is allowed to set about rebuilding without unreasonably  onerous terms and conditions 

I’d add that you might have a point if the ownership had remained the same and they had just washed hands of debt and had the cheek to “change the name do the same” - always a dubious practice -  but this isn’t the case. It’s an entirely new ownership structure and should be treated as such. As to the competition I.e football in a league structure - once the points deductions ( part of the rules to control this situation ) have been applied and a new starting point established, which it has, what is the reasoning behind further restrictions ? There isn’t really any just cause as that has been dealt with under the numerous fines and sanctions while we were breaching the norms. 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, ram59 said:

So Bristol and maybe other clubs who lost only £4m in turnover because of covid, can lose over £60m over the last 3 years, which is over £20m more than allowed before receiving a points penalty, get off without punishment because the EFL make an allowance for covid. Yet we got no dispensation after going into administration, with covid playing a major part?

Surely, their average turnovers from just before and after covid should have been incorporated into their figures, for FFP purposes?

Due to Covid, the standard 3 year period was replaced by a 4 year period. The 19/20 and 20/21 seasons are averaged out. This is the same for all clubs.

We would have lost about £70m over the past 3 years. The big difference between us and them is we would have made a loss of about £38m in 18/19, whilst they posted a £12m profit.

Even without taking in to account exclusions (Covid, academy, etc) Bristol City are without allowable losses. 

Covid had to be the only reason for us going in to administration for the 12 point deduction to be overturned. I firmly believe we would have succeeded with the appeal, but would have had to go through a lengthy legal battle. 

[Sparkle]

What part of Bristol city losing £500,000 per week can they be pleased at? 
some over there think that they will be able to sell two or three players for £20 million - good luck with that 

so the EFL have changed their stance that covid did have an impact on finances then as well as clubs couldn’t have planned for it happening 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Sparkle

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Sparkle said:

What part of Bristol city losing £500,000 can they be pleased at? 
some over there think that they will be able to sell two or three players for £20 million - good luck with that 

so the EFL have changed their stance that covid did have an impact on finances then as well as clubs couldn’t have planned for it happening 

Oh, I thought that was for us to be pleased at? ?

[Sparkle]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Due to Covid, the standard 3 year period was replaced by a 4 year period. The 19/20 and 20/21 seasons are averaged out. This is the same for all clubs.

We would have lost about £70m over the past 3 years. The big difference between us and them is we would have made a loss of about £38m in 18/19, whilst they posted a £12m profit.

Even without taking in to account exclusions (Covid, academy, etc) Bristol City are without allowable losses. 

Covid had to be the only reason for us going in to administration for the 12 point deduction to be overturned. I firmly believe we would have succeeded with the appeal, but would have had to go through a lengthy legal battle. 

I agree fully with your last paragraph and it’s deeply frustrating that we weren’t allowed to see it to its conclusion 

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

I agree fully with your last paragraph and it’s deeply frustrating that we weren’t allowed to see it to its conclusion 

Meh. Or we were lucky. We might still be stuck with Mel, look on the bright side. Not sure we were really sellable to any but a truly committed fan like Clowes.

[RadioactiveWaste]

2 hours ago, Foreveram said:

It’s almost like someone had it in for us.?

I read it as "So we all agree we should get let off because Covid, but only after Derby get shafted, right?" "Aye!"

[jono]

53 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I read it as "So we all agree we should get let off because Covid, but only after Derby get shafted, right?" "Aye!"

Maybe we should start a campaign to give us some points back. Can you imagine the howls of moral outrage ?

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

6 hours ago, Cam the Ram said:

 

Don't worry.  The big plan is to say that a team finishing in the bottom half of the table couldn't sell 40 million quids worth of players to premier league teams due to covid.  Apparently, mythical money is ok.  Couldn't make it up. Hypocritical a- holes

[uttoxram75]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Meh. Or we were lucky. We might still be stuck with Mel, look on the bright side. Not sure we were really sellable to any but a truly committed fan like Clowes.

Not the point. we were shafted because Steve Gibson threatened Rick Parry. Yes Mel pushed it all to the limit but we actually only got done because Parry was scared of Gibson.

I'm not bothered now, its happened, we are rebuilding under a decent owner and I am proud of our support and the way we rallied round to show the world that Derby County Football Club is, ultimately, only a thing because of us, the fans.

The people of Derby, Derbyshire and the diaspora of DCFC fans around the world who have some affiliation to this great club of ours have all contributed to keeping us alive and giving David Clowes the strength and belief to save us.

Taking all that all into account, its important to remember that we were targeted and treated differently to everyone else because of the shallow, bitter, hateful spite of Steve Gibson and Rick Parry.

If either of those two ever rock up at Derby we should give them the welcome they deserve.

 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

43 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Don't worry.  The big plan is to say that a team finishing in the bottom half of the table couldn't sell 40 million quids worth of players to premier league teams due to covid.  Apparently, mythical money is ok.  Couldn't make it up. Hypocritical a- holes

2) Apply to the Football League to put a transfer after May back into this season? Is that allowable? Who knows. Mel Morris claimed it was

Hold on a minute ploppy.  What the funk are you on about.  Us spreading the cost of players through our accounts means we should get relegated but you want to flog a player and carry it back like some kind of personal pension relief. what about the we deserve everything we get if we try and claim loss of money on players we might have sold.

[kevinhectoring]

On 11/11/2022 at 18:36, RoyMac5 said:

What is the point of someone paying large sums of money buying a business, to save it going bust, and it not be allowed to trade reasonable competitively? 

The rules @Rich84refers to apply to all clubs that exit admin whether or not there is a change of ownership. They are intended to ensure there is no incentive for clubs to enter admin, wipe out debts, then exit having benefitted from the experience. 
 

You seem to be saying there should be two sets of rules for insolvent clubs, one which apply if there is a change or ownership, one which applies if there is not. I don’t think that is workable 

[kevinhectoring]

4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Covid had to be the only reason for us going in to administration for the 12 point deduction to be overturned. I firmly believe we would have succeeded with the appeal, but would have had to go through a lengthy legal battle. 

Morris has declined to put more cash in and it would have taken years to get through the legal process. The club was very hard - almost impossible - to sell whilst the legal problems remained. Not disagreeing with your post but I think Q did the right thing giving up on the appeal 

[Rich84]

6 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

The rules @Rich84refers to apply to all clubs that exit admin whether or not there is a change of ownership. They are intended to ensure there is no incentive for clubs to enter admin, wipe out debts, then exit having benefitted from the experience.

This touches on the main reason for my views on this which seems to differ from a few in here, just remember Leicester..... they did what people in here are moaning that we can't, they are the very reason the rules were brought in, exiting admin whilst keeping assets, invest and build a squad allowing them to get promoted, that then only a few years later won the Prem with them being the 'plucky little underdogs'.......

It was totally wrong, I'm not saying we should have sold all the players worth a penny because we, as has been pointed out, had so few on the books anyway, I'm not saying don't bring players in, we've done that and are competitive, I just don't want to follow the Leicester model.

I would suggest that there were more voices in here saying what Leicester did was acceptable,  but now saying why can't we do the same?

By all means, what I believe Clowes is doing is petitioning the EFL to allow us to increase budgets for the squad, allowing us to bring more players in, possibly better on higher wages, as can afford to pay more due to increased income compared to the original business plan projections, but I don't think it is acceptable to spunk money on transfers so soon after so many are out of pocket.

I know it happens in the 'real' business world, but I don't agree with that either.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Rich84
Spelling

[CBRammette]

11 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Meh. Or we were lucky. We might still be stuck with Mel, look on the bright side. Not sure we were really sellable to any but a truly committed fan like Clowes.

I think that too. If we had somehow limped on things wouldnt have got better. The toxic presence has gone. We have a difficult but fresh start. Perhaps PW's cheerfulness is also one of the reasons DC wanted him around the place - to sweep out any remaining doom and gloom.
However there are certain people and organisations that I will never forgive or forget for the vindictive treatment we received. 

[RoyMac5]

7 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

...

You seem to be saying there should be two sets of rules for insolvent clubs, one which apply if there is a change or ownership, one which applies if there is not. I don’t think that is workable 

No Kevin that's not what I was saying at all. Carry on.

[RoyMac5]

13 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

I think that too. If we had somehow limped on things wouldnt have got better. The toxic presence has gone. We have a difficult but fresh start. Perhaps PW's cheerfulness is also one of the reasons DC wanted him around the place - to sweep out any remaining doom and gloom.
However there are certain people and organisations that I will never forgive or forget for the vindictive treatment we received. 

Exactly. And how many more fake sheiks, usa fanboys, SISU clones, would we have had to bare!

#COYR

Edited November 18, 2022 by RoyMac5