The Administration Thread

[Ghost of Clough]

36 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Thanks for this ?  My only issue with Jonathan's reply is that he seems to link the 9 point deduction with our amortisation policy. That isn't correct, and confuses the issues.  The 9 point deduction relates to our overspend. An overspend which would have happened whichever amortisation policy had been adopted, because Morris had lost control (in particular, the Bent one year contract extension is an example of the fact he, and others, at the top of the club had entered into multiple player contract arrangements which were unsustainable for a Championship club).  This is not to defend the EFL - their stance throught the amortisation review has been vindictive, principally it seems to protect themselves from a Boro counter claim against themselves.  There is a reasonable argument I think to seek a reduction or removal of the £100k fine we received, but that would only be a pyrrhic victory. I doubt there is much of a case to greatly reduce the 9 point penalty for P&S overspend, not that I would be unhappy if Ashley or any new owner wanted to give it a very real go when they get hold of the steering wheel.  

Unless we were able to extend contracts or make signings which would have allowed us to make an additional £20m worth of sales in 20/21 of course.
Without an embargo restricting our transfer activity (being able to maintain a healthy squad size), we could have sold Bird, Sibley, Knight, Buchanan, etc for at least £20m during the early parts of the 2021 summer window.

[BoroWill]

4 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Wow that's some statement, Have you any documentation to back this up, I'd wager the majority of Boros fans even his ex Chauffeur would agree with you when he won his case against unfare dismissal, But almost Universally ?

Unless you live under a rock whenever neutrals talk about our club they refer to him being a great owner and how you couldn't ask for better as a manager. I'm aware that as a Boro fan I'm more likely to hear and pick up on these things, but to deny it is just ignorance.

 

2 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Maybe people should read more and dig a little deeper, Jimmy Saville was once regarded as a national treasure.

wow ?

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

And what’s worse EFL then used that to say we misled them. If they were misled into thinking as they did they were misled into thinking we we’re massively non-compliant. Why on Earth would we do that deliberately? 
 

thankfully the IDC saw right though that allegation from EFL, absolutely shameless as it was. 
 

The fact checkers have been on about your post. The extract below from the LAP decision (para 26) summarises it pretty well

 

“The DC was critical of EFL in this regard, although it thought there was some blame on both sides: see DC decision [227-228]. This was because a meeting took place on 13 May 2019 at which Mr Pearce and Mr Delve on behalf of the Club explained to Mr Karran and Mr Detko of EFL the treatment which in fact had been adopted by the Club. However, the note of the meeting records that the policy was said by the Club to be “in line with that disclosed in the Club’s accounts” (which was quite wrong) and records the explanation that “the Club used residual values when assessing each Player’s amortisation charge” (which was also quite wrong). Given the confusion, which was at least largely the fault of the Club, the criticism of EFL by DC seems remarkably harsh,

[Ghost of Clough]

Just now, PistoldPete said:

My understanding on it isn’t great either Iram which is why I defer to the oracle on this Ghost of Clough.

who Iirc has said using our amortisation method had been allowed we would have only failed ffp in 2019/20. So if Morris had sold that year he could have got away with it albeit with a lot of smoke and mirror tricks.

2020 and 2021 periods with Covid. 2020 went unpunished due to Covid though.
Very likely 2022 would also fail without Covid.

 

[Ghost of Clough]

Just now, kevinhectoring said:

The fact checkers have been on about your post. The extract below from the LAP decision (para 26) summarises it pretty well

 

“The DC was critical of EFL in this regard, although it thought there was some blame on both sides: see DC decision [227-228]. This was because a meeting took place on 13 May 2019 at which Mr Pearce and Mr Delve on behalf of the Club explained to Mr Karran and Mr Detko of EFL the treatment which in fact had been adopted by the Club. However, the note of the meeting records that the policy was said by the Club to be “in line with that disclosed in the Club’s accounts” (which was quite wrong) and records the explanation that “the Club used residual values when assessing each Player’s amortisation charge” (which was also quite wrong). Given the confusion, which was at least largely the fault of the Club, the criticism of EFL by DC seems remarkably harsh,

Confusion due to it not being written adequately.

Us mere plebs could understand what it actually meant though.

[i-Ram]

16 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Still my favourite.  Some geezer turning up with his boots and asking for 1.5 million quid in wages you hadn't accounted for 

It’s a good one, and might better even the CM9 contract renewal when he was at Fulham. I am reserving my favourite until we might find out more about the Anya deal. That one has the potential to be the biggest “laugh” where we were paying someone a huge amount each week not to play.

[Ram-Alf]

3 minutes ago, David said:

It's worth noting that when saying the "EFL", it can be either the board or clubs, in point 1 this is on the board. Point 2 is on the clubs for voting it through and why some are asking for an Independent regulator as you can't have clubs with this much power to change the rules to suit.

 

 

Thanks for that David, In bold was the confusing part, Surely the EFL Should have said "yes we'll look into this in the close season" instead the EFL fold and put it through NOW!

There must be some very concerned Championship teams ATM ?

 

[rammieib]

2 minutes ago, DCFC27 said:

Since Rick Parry “chairman of the EFL” can be drawn into an argument with a fan at one club via email (no offence intended @David) it really does show the level of professionalism at the EFL and how it is run. Absolute circus. 

I don't see him as arguing. He's responding to professional and respectful E-mails written by David. I don't have an issue with that. (the answers he's giving is a different matter!)

Still don't understand why people are not more up in arms about the points penalty for failing P&S in the 20-21 year. The new rule we wouldn't fail it, and thats worth 1-2 points. to me - the 12 points for admin, the Boro Claim due to the cheating on P&S, the other years we failed - thats not going to change, but the 20-21 year it clearly does change it.

 

Every other club will now be compiling their P&S results using a different method to what Derby have done. This is the whole point - we got done for our Amortisation because it was different to every other club - but hey - this is now OK because it suits other clubs? This is 1-2 points we should be given back immediately!

 

[Curtains]

11 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

Unless you live under a rock whenever neutrals talk about our club they refer to him being a great owner and how you couldn't ask for better as a manager. I'm aware that as a Boro fan I'm more likely to hear and pick up on these things, but to deny it is just ignorance.

 

wow ?

Middlesbrough administration 

Middlesbrough and teams like Leicester going into administration was bloody probably the reason FFP was created allegedly 

From Wiki 

“Aftermath

Legal matters continued throughout the 1986–87 season as people came forward to claim old debts, but this was overshadowed by the achievements of Rioch's side on the pitch.

The side, which had been relegated the season before, finished second in the table, regaining a place in the Second Division. The following season, the club finished third in the place, winning promotion to the First Division by the play-offs. Although the club would be relegated back to the second flight after the next season, the recovery from such a precarious situation surprised everyone in the football world.”

 

Funny how one of our Champions winning players saved your bacon 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Curtains
Added and altered

[ilkleyram]

2 hours ago, Rev said:

He's bending for you David. 

This time next week he'll be asking you to Dinner.

Wouldn't it be more appropriate for him to have invited @David to dinner first, just to get to know him a bit better?

[S8TY]

13 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

Almost universally regarded as one of the best owners in the game, but I'm sure he will be devastated to hear that DCFCFans have decided he is a stain on football.

Taking local church sides to court, seemingly taking everyone to court...yeah!! thats great for the game...how about just realise that you're not good enough....simple as that....but lets look to take someone to court shall we....imagine if every best owner in the football world like Gibbon were to sue everyone for all and sundry.... what a state the game would be in??? Forget the football grounds lets get some turnstiles at the court houses so we can all get excited about who's getting promoted/relegated in a court room....pathetic mate!

[BoroWill]

2 minutes ago, Curtains said:

From Wiki re Middlesbrough administration 

 

“Aftermath

Legal matters continued throughout the 1986–87 season as people came forward to claim old debts, but this was overshadowed by the achievements of Rioch's side on the pitch.

The side, which had been relegated the season before, finished second in the table, regaining a place in the Second Division. The following season, the club finished third in the place, winning promotion to the First Division by the play-offs. Although the club would be relegated back to the second flight after the next season, the recovery from such a precarious situation surprised everyone in the football world.”

 

Funny how one of our Champions winning players save you bacon 

Love Rioch and all of that team for everything they did for our club. I'm sure you all feel the same about Rooney and your players.

[i-Ram]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Unless we were able to extend contracts or make signings which would have allowed us to make an additional £20m worth of sales in 20/21 of course.
Without an embargo restricting our transfer activity (being able to maintain a healthy squad size), we could have sold Bird, Sibley, Knight, Buchanan, etc for at least £20m during the early parts of the 2021 summer window.

Mmmh. Bit of a stretch don’t you think?

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, i-Ram said:

It’s a good one, and might better even the CM9 contract renewal when he was at Fulham. I am reserving my favourite until we might find out more about the Anya deal. That one has the potential to be the biggest “laugh” where we were paying someone a huge amount each week not to play.

You know theirs a loyalty bonus day in there somewhere.  Here he is celebrating on his way into Moor Farm

[Ram-Alf]

7 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

Unless you live under a rock whenever neutrals talk about our club they refer to him being a great owner and how you couldn't ask for better as a manager. I'm aware that as a Boro fan I'm more likely to hear and pick up on these things, but to deny it is just ignorance.

No rock dweller I can assure you, Your owner very rarely comes up in conversation, Now the circle I used to associate with respect your "Frontline" more that your Chairman, But that's just a personel point of view.

Ignorance is Bliss some may say, And if your Chairman is a "great owner" i'm just glad i'm "ignorant"

 

[S8TY]

5 minutes ago, S8TY said:

Taking local church sides to court, seemingly taking everyone to court...yeah!! thats great for the game...how about just realise that you're not good enough....simple as that....but lets look to take someone to court shall we....imagine if every best owner in the football world like Gibbon were to sue everyone for all and sundry.... what a state the game would be in??? Forget the football grounds lets get some turnstiles at the court houses so we can all get excited about who's getting promoted/relegated in a court room....pathetic mate!

And universally regarded???? PMSL ......yeah of course!!!

[PistoldPete]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Confusion due to it not being written adequately.

Us mere plebs could understand what it actually meant though.

I think you are not a pleb, but someone with  knowledge about financial matters and some common sense. As was the forensic accountant on the IDc.

unfortunately he got outvoted by an academic and a bunch of puffed up lawyers.

[Curtains]

4 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

Love Rioch and all of that team for everything they did for our club. I'm sure you all feel the same about Rooney and your players.

You should of loved Bruce we did .

Gibson save you from administration and now he comes after us .

The irony of it can’t be lost on you. 
 

We did overspend yes but like I say we deserved some sympathy .

Ye I love Wayne always have as a player as well 

[RadioactiveWaste]

16 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

Almost universally regarded as one of the best owners in the game, but I'm sure he will be devastated to hear that DCFCFans have decided he is a stain on football.

Overall, yes, he is well regarded (still) and in terms of protecting Middlesbrough's interests he's gone above and beyond to atone for giving Tony pulis parachute payments to play with.

I'd just wish he wouldn't try to moralise about his actions which were a) give MFC an advantage b) his personal beef with Mel Morris and c) his continuing objection to a charge DCFC were cleared of any wrongdoing over (sale of pride park) d) pressuring the regulator to "get derby or I'll get you' e) attempting extortion of a club in administration, and intentionally letting the matter act as an inhibitor to exiting administration and f) getting p&s rules changed to suit his club. Not to mention the borderline slander (don't worry I'm sure his lawyers checked the wording) contained in some of the statements

Apart from that,top guy.

[Day]

32 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

Almost universally regarded as one of the best owners in the game, but I'm sure he will be devastated to hear that DCFCFans have decided he is a stain on football.

I can't disagree with this statement as I can't prove otherwise, by the same token I'm not sure this is something you can prove either.

Having visited the Sheffield Wednesday forum there isn't a lot of love on there for Steve Gibson, I would image Liverpool fans would also not agree having been on the end of his legal action along with other clubs. There is also a small matter of the Man United fanbase that have been questioning the claims in their support for Wayne Rooney.

You can only base your views on what you see and hear, and right now Forest, Leeds and bizarrely Bristol City fans have been very vocal in their support of Steve Gibson, although this will be down to rivalry....except for Bristol City which is once again just bizarre.

I don't know the guy, won't claim to know his life story and the shenanigans he may have been in, but what he has done against this club is unforgivable. 

Make no mistake, he is not responsible for the position we are in, he has been responsible for prolonging the situation with his frivolous claims which let's be honest, the club were never the intended target in all this, it was Mel Morris.

Let's also not forget, nowhere would you find Boro fans complaining at the time in 18/19, Tony Pulis was the target of your frustrations and rightly so, only now that Gibson's claims became public are Boro fans out in force to support their owner, which is commendable. 

We have seen the benefits of a siege mentality ourselves recently, even clubs such as Leeds which we dislike with a passion, you have to applaud the way they defend their club and anyone connected.

End of the day, it's quite possible the club could have been sold long before we entered administration had we not had these claims over us, they have been the main stumbling block. That's 12 points back on the board, no Embargos and we could potentially be challenging the top 6 with you this season. 

I know Boro fans will argue justice has been served, especially if we go down, but relegation is not a punishment the EFL can just hand out.

If you want to hear tales of how great Steve is, what a gentleman and upstanding person in the community, you will not find that on here, so don't be shocked to read plenty of vitriol aimed towards Gibson and in our eyes it's fully deserved. Every single bit of it.