Referees costing us vs Forest in recent seasons

[ram59]

Regarding the Fozzy incident, I believe that it was accidental.

Let's look at the player's character, he's being at the club for many years and I can't recall him ever losing it and being aggressive to another player, in fact, sometimes I wish he'd show a bit more. Nor was this incident preceded by another incident, to which he could feel aggrieved and to lose it for a moment.

Only he would know whether there was any intention, but for an ex team mate, Bent, to call him out, I'm disgusted with that.

[G-Ram]

2 hours ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I've despised this tool of an official ever since that day, Whenever he's on TV the venom that comes out of my gob would make the devil blush...he's a George Courtney prodigy?

Same i can't stand him should be banned from refereeing a game ever again 

[DCFC Kicks]

1 hour ago, WestKentRam said:

I've posted about this on here before, but to try to make sense of the feeling I've had that decisions over the course of a season do not even out for us, last season I kept a 'spreadsheet of injustice' for my own amusement, logging key contentious decisions and their potential effect on the outcome of matches, both for and against us.

I'd like see this, but just for Derby vs Forest over the past 5 seasons

[r4derby]

14 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

If VAR was in play, would Fozzy have done the stamp? I don't think so. 

I it evens out, we should be due about 6 in a row then.

 

I don’t think Fozzy means to stamp down, he’s not that sort of character. What I meant was the way that it looks to a VAR official who won’t know the characters of each player. He looks down, then steps on the Forest player. I know it wasn’t intended, but that wouldn’t stop them giving it.

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Buchanan.

He absolutely could, but that would mean a sub and players not in same positions etc

[Malagaram]

Any ideas of the pros and cons of having 2 referees on the pitch,4 eyes better than 2 etc

[JfR]

1 hour ago, ram59 said:

Regarding the Fozzy incident, I believe that it was accidental.

Let's look at the player's character, he's being at the club for many years and I can't recall him ever losing it and being aggressive to another player, in fact, sometimes I wish he'd show a bit more. Nor was this incident preceded by another incident, to which he could feel aggrieved and to lose it for a moment.

Only he would know whether there was any intention, but for an ex team mate, Bent, to call him out, I'm disgusted with that.

For me, it doesn't even come down to Fozzy's prior character. I literally don't think he can move his legs fast enough any more for him to make that action intentionally.

[JarodyDCFC]

16 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

The amount of times the ref has cost us in this fixture recently is ridiculous.

16/17 A

Their GK drops the ball and we score but its given as a foul for some reason

17/18 A

Their player dives and gets Huddlestone sent off

19/20 A

Yates should have got a red card for a studs up foul that injured Clarke

20/21 A

Taylors goal offside 

Stupidly disallowed Jozwiak goal

20/21 H

Deliberate handball that blocked a certain goal - should have been red card and penalty

(Although CKR did handball it for our goal)

21/22 H

Deliberate handball that blocked a certain goal - should have been red card and penalty

 

I'm sure there's a few more I've missed as well...

 

I’m sure you could create a similar list with pretty much every team in the league. Bad decisions go against every team pretty much every game, that’s just how the reffing is in this league. No reason to single out the Forest game. 

[ram59]

57 minutes ago, Malagaram said:

Any ideas of the pros and cons of having 2 referees on the pitch,4 eyes better than 2 etc

American football has 7 officials and VAR, but still gets decisions wrong.

[gfs1ram]

4 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

#Ref's fault

#EFL's fault

#Sky's fault

#Mel's fault

#Ticket Office's fault.

How about we all take a long hard look at ourselves, before coming to the right and proper conclusion that it is in fact, all Bielsa's fault!   ?

I thought it was always Keogh's fault ?

[ossieram]

2 hours ago, Malagaram said:

Any ideas of the pros and cons of having 2 referees on the pitch,4 eyes better than 2 etc

Cons, 1 more idiot on the pitch.

[MuespachRam]

3 hours ago, JfR said:

For me, it doesn't even come down to Fozzy's prior character. I literally don't think he can move his legs fast enough any more for him to make that action intentionally.

It doesn’t matter for even 1 milli-second what sort of “character” Fozzy has..

I have to say, I have just watched the game and honestly, thought that there was 1 penalty we probably deserved and that Fozzy was lucky to stay on the pitch. 
 

to say It another way, if their full back had got away with the same sort of challenge as Fozzy did I don’t think I would be that bothered. 

[Andicis]

9 hours ago, Nookiebear1 said:

Im not saying they do have an agenda against us when i say this but its not like footballing governing bodies have ever been corrupt before tho is it Slepp? ?

What has gone in the past is irrelevant. But there is a difference between incompetence and corruption, which is the key point. 

[Chris_Martin]

8 hours ago, WestKentRam said:

I've posted about this on here before, but to try to make sense of the feeling I've had that decisions over the course of a season do not even out for us, last season I kept a 'spreadsheet of injustice' for my own amusement, logging key contentious decisions and their potential effect on the outcome of matches, both for and against us.

go on....

[KBB]

Good old fozzie. Played the long con here. He obviously thought I need to have a good disciplinary record for 10 years and then one day I can stamp on some forest twit and get away with it.

Club legend.

[Wolfie20]

6 hours ago, Malagaram said:

Any ideas of the pros and cons of having 2 referees on the pitch,4 eyes better than 2 etc

Don't see much advantage - I reckon for the vast majority of contentious decisions the referee is within 10 metres of the incident. Plus 2 incompetent officials would be no improvement on 1 ? Was thinking there might be a case for 4 linos but borderline offsides could be a hoot - one arguing for, another against.

[WestKentRam]

3 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

go on....

Here's a screenshot of my spreadsheet from last season if it can be read. Was merely a therapeutic exercise for my own benefit, trying to be as unbiased as a Derby supporter can possibly be, using match reports and consensus after the games. Just seemed to confirm my feeling that over the course of a season we don't get the rub of the green.

 

[Nookiebear1]

15 hours ago, Andicis said:

What has gone in the past is irrelevant. But there is a difference between incompetence and corruption, which is the key point. 

Like i said im not saying its a conspiracy and i really get they are probably just incompetent but governing bodies have been terribly corrupt in the past so its no surprise when some fans think the EFL are using influence to give us unfair referee decisions. Even Rooney skirted around it in his post match interview 

[WestKentRam]

9 hours ago, Nookiebear1 said:

Like i said im not saying its a conspiracy and i really get they are probably just incompetent but governing bodies have been terribly corrupt in the past so its no surprise when some fans think the EFL are using influence to give us unfair referee decisions. Even Rooney skirted around it in his post match interview 

It doesn't have to be corruption or incompetence, but referees are prone to unconscious bias as is any human in a given situation. There is extensive literature on the existence of home bias, as well as some on successful teams getting more favourable decisions.

Referees will read the news and have access to the internet. They will know about certain players who dive, or the clubs that are in favour or not and the issues involved. They do not officiate a football match in a vacuum, knowing nothing of the clubs or players in front of them.

Mel Morris is on record as saying the EFL 'dislike' him, he is seen as an 'enemy of the EFL state', and the EFL have 'an axe to grind against him personally'.

It is perfectly reasonable for individual clubs to hold rivalries and grudges against each other. However I would argue that the EFL, as the governing body of the league, should hold a neutral position concerning any club. I'm not sure many would say this is the position that seems to come across that the EFL holds with Derby, with revisiting of previously agreed submissions relating to FFP/P&S, reinterpretation of rules and seeming pursuit of the club with appeals etc. Referees will know about the Derby v EFL debate.

In 2016 former Premier League referee Mark Halsey claimed he was told by the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) to say he had not seen incidents in matches. This is the same body that appoints referees to EFL matches now. They denied they had told him that, so that's the end of the matter.

Coincidentally, I am reading Brian Clough's autobiography 'Walking on Water' at present. In it he tells of his time at Boro as a striker when he scored 40 or more goals in 4 consecutive seasons. He became increasingly frustrated at the lack of success of Boro, as no matter how many goals he scored the leaky defence made up for it and the team failed to gain promotion from the Second Division. He had his suspicions that the defence were deliberately not clearing the ball, and he could take no more so went to the manager to tell him of his concerns. He was told he had it wrong, and even that one of the players who seemed to be performing poorly said that Clough should see a psychiatrist for being so paranoid. He then went to one of the club directors again to be brushed off, and eventually could take no more and left Boro in 1961. The Boro defenders who Clough complained about in vain were later both imprisoned for their parts in the 1964 British football match fixing scandal.

I am in no way saying the EFL is corrupt in such a way, just that it is an interesting historical aside with links to our club in Brian Clough, and that concerns about any aspect of football governance should not be dismissed out of hand. I think that it's fair to hypothesise that referees may have unconscious bias in their decision making. It may not change the result of the match after the final whistle is blown but is not unreasonable to consider, and is all part of the great tapestry of discussion of the interpretation of matches and results in our situation.

[Barney1991]

We should have had 2 pens 

[MickD]

On 28/08/2021 at 13:41, Chris_Martin said:

the foul on davies today as well. 

Ball was not in play