Gringo Posted July 25, 2021 Author Share Posted July 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Weren't you taking exception to quoting 19th century authors a few pages ago? That book's even older! That was not an insult, that was an explanation…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Charlotte Ram said: That was not an insult, that was an explanation…. I never said it was an insult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 r_wilcockson and Gringo 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Pearl Ram said: Oh ! Funnily enough at my junior school there was a lad called Vivian. True story that. You went to school with Viv Richards? Quality! Pearl Ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: Nope, definitely a name. I went to school with a boy named Charlotte. To be fair to his dad, he knew he wasn't gonna be around much when Charlotte was growing up and life was gonna be tough so he was the sonofab that called him Charlotte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 4 hours ago, Jourdan said: I myself remember sharing a rather delicious bottle of Beaujolais with Mel as I gave the green light to spending £3 million on Nick Blackman. Indeed, I am to blame. Yeah yeah very funny. You are just neglecting to mention when you paid me 2k to break into Mel's house in the night and demand we sign Butterfield and Johnson for "whatever it takes". I guess I could have said no though. Jourdan and Jimbo Ram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 4 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said: I think the ultimate blame has to lie with the concept of competetive sports - so that's ancient greece who really should be up in front of the EFL. I thought that the ancient Greeks idea of sport was nudey wrestling, mano a mano..... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Just now, Van der MoodHoover said: I thought that the ancient Greeks idea of sport was nudey wrestling, mano a mano..... ? A bit like MMA but without the "no homo" pretence...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 2 hours ago, chezzyram said: Was he a young one Am sure he was called Vyvyan (Basterd) not Vivian..... Spanish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 9 hours ago, Tamworthram said: Not arguing with that. Yes we all cheered and sang “he’s one of our own”. We would all have been delighted if the gamble had paid off if we’d been promoted but, the fact remains, none of us really knew how high the stakes were or the consequences of failure. Even if we had, and continued to cheer/encourage him, it still doesn’t make us responsible for the miss management of the club. I have been a Mel supporter but he can’t abdicate responsibility and we can’t shift the blame to the fans. Mel is a successful business man in possession of the full details of the financial position when decisions were made. We were not and, of course, we’re going to be thrilled when the club sign expensive players (even if they do turn out to be duds). What do you expect “hold on Mel, are you sure we can afford him? Have you done a full assessment of the impact of his future wages? Can you share with us your risk assessment and financial modelling for promotion v remaining in the championship?” We all knew that the club was being run at a considerable loss season after season and most were fine with it, some even calling that sustainable. Well, it wasn't, was it. Could've Would've Should've are an unreliable trio, but we could've and should've seen the danger on the horizon if we would've looked logically at the situation developing, but too many had stars in eyes gazing at the possible glory of returning to the PL. Fans cheering on a fan owner to overspend and in the end half bury us, but no, lets not point to that uncomfortable scenario, we are only fans, to expect common sense from us is lunacy. The Scarlet Pimpernel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, ramit said: We all knew that the club was being run at a considerable loss season after season and most were fine with it, some even calling that sustainable. Well, it wasn't, was it. Could've Would've Should've are an unreliable trio, but we could've and should've seen the danger on the horizon if we would've looked logically at the situation developing, but too many had stars in eyes gazing at the possible glory of returning to the PL. Fans cheering on a fan owner to overspend and in the end half bury us, but no, lets not point to that uncomfortable scenario, we are only fans, to expect common sense from us is lunacy. Whether we, as fans, knew the seriousness of the situation, were happy with the level of spending, should have seen the danger signs or considered it sustainable is irrelevant. The owner/commercial management of the club certainly should have and shouldn’t be influenced by the passionate expectations of the fans to the extent that has resulted in us finding ourselves in the position we find ourselves. I’d even go as far as saying that Mel himself wouldn’t blame the fans. Fans of every club will always want the best players the club can get. It’s the owners responsibility to manage this and to make sure any such expectations are achievable and sustainable. in terms of not cheering the owner for overspending, as my sarcastic examples highlighted earlier, do you really expect fans to challenge the spending proposed by the owner or try to reign him in? To return to the original question, no, the fans are not ultimately to blame. Edited July 25, 2021 by Tamworthram lrm14, Rev and S8TY 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconram Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 We're not to blame, time n time again we were told we were within FFP, we were not, that's not a fans fault. This is like having a credit card and keep moving it around until you get caught up and can no longer pay the bill. This should never have happened even with the spending, ridiculous wages are the ultimate downfall, we are reaping what we have sown. I have been watching since 19 78 and I cannot find any excuses for the people in charge to have got our club in the largest mess it's ever been in,. MM was one of our own, LP was one of our own but didn't put us in a position which is beginning to be unthinkable, We could be the next Bury. A very fed up and disappointed fan who like many of us lives and breaths DCFC S8TY and Tamworthram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, falconram said: we were told we were within FFP, we were not, As it stands officially / technically we still are within FFP. Not meant as a defence of anyone, just a fact. That could change at any minute, of course. Edited July 25, 2021 by Coconut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconram Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 8 minutes ago, Coconut said: As it stands, officially we still are within FFP. OK, I take that back or re phase sailing close to the wind May Contain Nuts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Fran Van Rams Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 hour ago, ramit said: We all knew that the club was being run at a considerable loss season after season and most were fine with it, some even calling that sustainable. Well, it wasn't, was it. Could've Would've Should've are an unreliable trio, but we could've and should've seen the danger on the horizon if we would've looked logically at the situation developing, but too many had stars in eyes gazing at the possible glory of returning to the PL. Fans cheering on a fan owner to overspend and in the end half bury us, but no, lets not point to that uncomfortable scenario, we are only fans, to expect common sense from us is lunacy. So what as fans should we have done about it? Booed at Mel when we were in the stadium? Protested the signing of Blackman? Invaded the pitch when we unveiled Rooney? As others have pointed out, we didn't know the ins and outs of every deal, didn't know we'd been using a potentially non compliant amortization method, didn't know COVID was about to wipe out two years worth of ticket revenues. The only thing we as fans can be blamed for is passion in supporting the club we love. We have zero control and decision making authority. Tamworthram and Philmycock 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 13 minutes ago, Coconut said: As it stands officially / technically we still are within FFP. Not meant as a defence of anyone, just a fact. That could change at any minute, of course. "Being within ffp" just means that losses on a portion of the football clubs activities are no greater than 13m per season. In what kind of world is that the same as "financially stable" It's like Mrs VdM claiming she's not overspending as I clear the credit card bill monthly, but then having a massive go when I tell her that there's no money left for new house projects.... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRammette Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: "Being within ffp" just means that losses on a portion of the football clubs activities are no greater than 13m per season. In what kind of world is that the same as "financially stable" It's like Mrs VdM claiming she's not overspending as I clear the credit card bill monthly, but then having a massive go when I tell her that there's no money left for new house projects.... ? And she would be correct to do so ?? Van der MoodHoover 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Just now, CBRammette said: And she would be correct to do so ?? Ooer, evening Elizabeth, didn't realise you were a forum member... ? CBRammette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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