WhiteHorseRam Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Eddie said: Amateur Teach me Obi-Wan Eddie Comrade 86 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Just now, WhiteHorseRam said: Teach me Obi-Wan Eddie Use the farce WhiteHorseRam and cstand 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, GboroRam said: I know he was smashed in the face with a fire extinguisher, wasn't aware he'd been sprayed in the face with mace which could be the cause of death. By all means keep on waiting for a natural causes verdict, but I think the cause of death will be the right wing mob. How many died in the left wing riots last year, how many homes and businesses were burnt to the ground how many police were injured.? Edited June 17, 2021 by cstand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 19 hours ago, GboroRam said: In response to a comment that the cancel culture "is done almost entirely by loony lefties". You've got right wingers murdering politicians, you've got the Gillette backlash, you've got booing taking the knee, you've got "Ban the BBC" and you've got the backlash about "Black Lives Matter". You've got people complaining that the likes of Gary Lineker shouldn't be given a platform on Twitter because they're paid for by the license fee. All part of cancel culture, but the side that the "unwoke right" prefer not to see when they talk about cancel culture. I'm just reminding you all, that the Cancel Culture isn't just the left. And then I get told to take my post down as it's disrespectful and "not playing nicely". I'm not saying anything personal, just that the issue is across both sides of the argument. The cancel culture was started by left wing activists its their weapon of choice and battle ground so they cannot complain when opponents engaged with them using the same tactics. Edited June 17, 2021 by cstand Jubbs, Comrade 86 and ariotofmyown 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexxxxx Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, cstand said: How many died in the left wing riots last year, how many homes and businesses were burnt to the ground how many police were injured.? Go on.. How many? And also why are we being dragged in to talking about events in the United States. I know some people like to conflate British political movements to American ones to bash the left/right here but I don't remember there being widespread shootings and looting in the UK. Edited June 17, 2021 by alexxxxx ariotofmyown and Jubbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, alexxxxx said: Go on.. How many? And also why are we being dragged in to talking about events in the United States. I know some people like to conflate British political movements to American ones to bash the left/right here but I don't remember there being widespread shootings and looting in the UK. Fair comment it’s GB news thread so if the mod wants to remove all references to the US think that would be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Getting back on topic... Andrew Neil had an excellent interview with Rishi Sunak last night - just watched it on Youtube, along with the analysis from Micheal Portillo and Liam Halligan. Without going into the politics of it, if you are interested to hear what he said and how he sees the economy recovering from covid its a good watch and very interesting ? Carl Sagan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 I'm not getting involved! This is a pretty heavy academic essay, and I struggled to get through it in one go, but it actually covers a lot of the points we're missing here, and attempts to explain the reasons we have loonies on both extremes and why it's all getting worse - what he calls the politics of recognition https://newleftreview.org/issues/ii128/articles/william-davies-the-politics-of-recognition-in-the-age-of-social-media Don't let the "new left review" bit put you off - it's not a partisan piece Quote My intention here is to come at the current explosion of recognition demands from a different perspective: to consider how transformations in the public sphere have led to a mutation in how recognition is demanded and supplied. The key condition for this is the digital platform, which has ushered in a new era of public participation in which recognition of status is never adequately achieved by anyone, so injustice feels ubiquitous It's a long read, but worth it IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 34 minutes ago, maxjam said: Getting back on topic... Andrew Neil had an excellent interview with Rishi Sunak last night - just watched it on Youtube, along with the analysis from Micheal Portillo and Liam Halligan. Without going into the politics of it, if you are interested to hear what he said and how he sees the economy recovering from covid its a good watch and very interesting ? Sounds like propaganda...for people who have an opposing view. We all have our own truth these days. TuffLuff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexxxxx Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) .. Edited June 17, 2021 by alexxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 2 hours ago, sage said: Sounds like propaganda...for people who have an opposing view. We all have our own truth these days. That's perhaps the most disappointing thing I've ever seen you post, Sage. This Week was a glorious political show on the BBC for many years, rating into the millions at midnight, until it was cancelled by the Beeb. Last night it was recreated to an extent, with the Chancellor of the Exchequer being grilled by the nation's most forensic interviewer for 20 minutes and then his responses being dissected by an expert panel including Michael Portillo. Real in-depth thoughtful useful and important TV. I learnt stuff. It's so frustrating people just want to sit in their bubbles and denounce stuff when they don't know what it is. While the Twitter hate mob calls for it to be cancelled and boycotted because they're terrified they'll hear things that might challenge them and make them think. Archied, Angry Ram, Norman and 3 others 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 50 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said: That's perhaps the most disappointing thing I've ever seen you post, Sage. This Week was a glorious political show on the BBC for many years, rating into the millions at midnight, until it was cancelled by the Beeb. Last night it was recreated to an extent, with the Chancellor of the Exchequer being grilled by the nation's most forensic interviewer for 20 minutes and then his responses being dissected by an expert panel including Michael Portillo. Real in-depth thoughtful useful and important TV. I learnt stuff. It's so frustrating people just want to sit in their bubbles and denounce stuff when they don't know what it is. While the Twitter hate mob calls for it to be cancelled and boycotted because they're terrified they'll hear things that might challenge them and make them think. What's portillos expertise that stands him out to critique sunak, who is a business school goldmans alumnus isn't he? Neither of those two have lenses that I would rush to listen to for meaningful solutions. Sunak you'd listen to just to get a sense of where his policy thinking is going. But for insights? Not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Regardless of your views on the channel, you’ve got to admit that the sheer amount of gaffes so far are hilarious. Norman, i-Ram and TuffLuff 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 40 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Regardless of your views on the channel, you’ve got to admit that the sheer amount of gaffes so far are hilarious. What has become apparent to me, is that this isn’t really a news channel but cheap, opinion based tv being looked over by an egotist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 49 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: What's portillos expertise that stands him out to critique sunak, who is a business school goldmans alumnus isn't he? Neither of those two have lenses that I would rush to listen to for meaningful solutions. Sunak you'd listen to just to get a sense of where his policy thinking is going. But for insights? Not for me. he was chief secretary to the treasury so it can be assumed he has some degree of expertise in the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: he was chief secretary to the treasury so it can be assumed he has some degree of expertise in the subject. Er, no. Why? He has expertise in selecting politically palatable choices from the options that others analyses have derived for him. This is the crux of our system. The smes are in the civil service, the politicians apply political overlay only ie, is it in line with the manifesto, what do the focus groups say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: Er, no. Why? He has expertise in selecting politically palatable choices from the options that others analyses have derived for him. This is the crux of our system. The smes are in the civil service, the politicians apply political overlay only ie, is it in line with the manifesto, what do the focus groups say? That's not always the case and is an over generalised comment. Even in cases where special advisors and senior civil servants are the real brains and thinkers it's reasonable to expect the minister and their deputy to acquire a decent understanding of the policies they are exercising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: That's not always the case and is an over generalised comment. Even in cases where special advisors and senior civil servants are the real brains and thinkers it's reasonable to expect the minister and their deputy to acquire a decent understanding of the policies they are exercising. Right. They will be expected to understand their briefs etc to a level where they can represent said policies. They will do this through oversight. But thats a different thing to developing your own analysis from first principles. Even if the topic was one you were educated in (portillo read history at university). So the analogy here might be that a bunch of backroom economists pulled sunaks stuff to pieces and fed someone like portillo some key questions. But that doesn't make the latter an expert in any sense, more an intelligent presenter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: Right. They will be expected to understand their briefs etc to a level where they can represent said policies. They will do this through oversight. But thats a different thing to developing your own analysis from first principles. Even if the topic was one you were educated in (portillo read history at university). So the analogy here might be that a bunch of backroom economists pulled sunaks stuff to pieces and fed someone like portillo some key questions. But that doesn't make the latter an expert in any sense, more an intelligent presenter. Some ministers go beyond mere understanding their briefs though- politicians such as Ed Balls, Ed Miliband, David willets etc. all applied ideological frameworks themselves to the development of policy and were real movers as opposed to merely understanding a policy brief. Over time this often becomes the difference between merely a solid, competent minister and someone who has a brighter future and compete at the top of politics. You're overgeneralising I think to make what can be a valid point. Portillo is a good presenter, intelligent and has experience at the treasury so it's reasonable to assume he's a solid choice of a second person when Neil is giving the interview. Edited June 17, 2021 by Leeds Ram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said: What's portillos expertise that stands him out to critique sunak, who is a business school goldmans alumnus isn't he? Neither of those two have lenses that I would rush to listen to for meaningful solutions. Sunak you'd listen to just to get a sense of where his policy thinking is going. But for insights? Not for me. What expertise does he need to critique the chancellor? It's politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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