Sack cocu

[Comrade 86]

6 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I know you 86,you have reached the point where you are going to dig in for the pure hell of it because you hate the thought of yet another manager going out of the door....

You're half right. I think another sacking and we could hit a spiral that we don't survive, yes. But I don't think Cocu is Rowett who brought in players on a short term fix and dismantled the nucleus of a decent side in doing so. For me, once he'd done that, we were 'in blood stepped so deep' hence my stance. It was never 'stability for the sake of stability'. I think I made that pretty clear at the time as well as the fact that I didn't really enjoy the football at all. It was effective, but we might as well have not had a midfield IMO.

The only other similarity was that I backed Rowett to get us to the play offs, to much derision from many quarters and herein lies the pinch; I'm utterly convinced that Cocu can too. For me the big difference is that if the players and to a lesser extent, us fans will just buy in, batten down the hatches and believe, we can do it playing football the right way. I see a an ugly duckling turning slowly into a swan, though I concede others see nothing of the sort, but I can also see a potential spiral of fear and pressure too.

And for the record, I think my 2-1 Derby win was far closer to fruition than your 'I can only see' a 3-1 loss. Given that you 'could only foresee' a loss, it's incongruous that you should be so critical of the performance what with us being at very least, good value for the draw and that, my old mucker, is the very crux of my argument.

Anyway, I hate miserable Kash and love fired up, we are one, COYR Kash, so the sooner Cocu gets this poo sorted the better as us happy-clappers can't carry you moany lot forever ?

[MuespachRam]

59 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

What, the other fella everyone wanted sacked?

Almost as if Mad Mel shouldn’t listen to the moronic fan base..?

[Jourdan]

28 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

I’m sorry but where, in anything Mel has stated, has there been an indication that this is the case?

You’ve literally made up a scenario to invite external pressure onto Cocu for what reason?

Mel is a results man. He always has been and he always will be.

No owner will come out and say ‘Manager X needs Y points from Z amount of games’ publicly, but my post refers to what I imagine Mel is thinking behind closed doors and given the start we have made and the continued media speculation, I don’t think it’s unrealistic either.

Maybe you’re right and Mel is totally relaxed, but it’s hard to imagine.

5 points from 24 this season. 5 goals in 10 competitive games. Just two goals scored from open play. 14 goals conceded and just two clean sheets in all competitions. Just one win in normal time.

Cocu’s inability to get results has created this pressure. Nothing else. No-one else. Have the fans added to it? Yes. Have the media added to it? Also yes.

I hope he finds his way out of it. A point on Saturday would be a great start.

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

Almost as if Mad Mel shouldn’t listen to the moronic fan base..?

Particularly you, as a Billy Davis fan. 

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, MuespachRam said:

Almost as if Mad Mel shouldn’t listen to the moronic fan base..?

Not sure 'moronic' is the term I'd use, but in essence, yes. I don't think this time around he'll be swayed as easily as he has been though and rightly so IMO.

[Mostyn6]

1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said:

Its all about opinions, nothing else.

In my opinion we will have a great season. I'm just gutted we won't be allowed to see it.

 

Which season? 2023/24? 2026/27?

[Jourdan]

1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said:

One season into a four year contract.

The squad is beginning to play the high press game that Cocu wants. We are playing with more intent and creating more chances every game. 

The players are starting to believe just like the Leeds players did under Bielsa.

 

It took weeks for Bielsa to transform Leeds and get the players to buy into what he wanted from them. They were winning games and playing good football from very early on. It was only a matter of time before Leeds went up under Bielsa. Performances more often than not matched results.

I am struggling to see how comparisons to Cocu can be drawn.

No-one wants to let a manager go one year into a four year contract. But the performances and the results have to align at some point. The tenure of the average Championship manager lasting around a year tells you that every owner’s patience is finite.

Rosenior came out in the press conference saying that ‘in and around the top six’ is where we want to be this season. That’s the club’s target, not even one set by demanding fans.

At the moment, we are nine points off the play-off places. If we don’t start winning games, that gap will only get bigger and that target only looks less and less achievable.

Personally, 11-12th seems a fairer target. But if we can’t beat fellow struggling sides like QPR and Barnsley at home, what hope do we have of even achieving that?

Like I said, six points in the next three games and some positive signs and everyone will go into the break backing Cocu.

 

[MuespachRam]

59 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Particularly you, as a Billy Davis fan. 

You mean the only person in your lifetime that has got us promoted....? That idiot...??

[Andicis]

22 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

You mean the only person in your lifetime that has got us promoted....? That idiot...??

Part of the worst team in history. Legend. 

[sage]

Since we lost to Blackburn we have changed our system and improved.

Also since that game we have played a succession of teams we bigger budgets than ourselves (mainly due to parachute payments) and face another one on Saturday.

The real proof of the pudding will be the QPR and Barnsley games. Lawrence and Waggy should be fully fit by then and Ibe and Bielik may be on the bench.

 

 

[wixman1884]

I'm not seeing it to be honest. I like cocu, but I don't think we'll see him through till the end of the season.

I can't think of one memorable game under his tenure, just lots of "maybe this game was the start of something" only to be proven wrong the following week.

More expensive Nigel clough so far for me

[DesertRam]

I can only see Lawrence, Jozwiak  & Waghorn getting better, tbh   if only we had kept

Martin which Cocu wanted to do, so presumably Mel wouldn't agree to his terms! 

[RamNut]

The season only really began v Forest due to the injuries and absentees.
The result and performance away at Forest was ok. 
The result and performance at home to Cardiff was a bit disappointing.

But there are mitigating factors. this is a squad going through the throes of significant transition.

last season we played a possession game with short passing that became a vice. 
this season we have ended up reverting to a rowett-ball deep defensive block with long range hoofing towards counter attacking strikers (reminiscent of weimann and co). We have sacrificed quality in search of a tactical fix to our defensive frailty. We are beginning to look like an effective defensive Unit, but with an ineffective attack, and a lack of midfield creativity.

the manager Is walking a tightrope in the context of a major financial wobble, a reliance on academy youngsters, a mixed bag of recruitment, and significant squad turnover. 

it is very frustrating but any decline is primarily as a consequence of weaning ourselves off players we could not afford.
there has to be collective responsibility for the situation that has been created. 
The manager has shown tactical dexterity and had mended the defence. He is entitled to more than two games with a full squad to show what he can do. In those two games results and performances are ok-ish. Despite dodgy substitutions and other doubts, I can’t see evidence of failure sufficient to prompt dismissal.

the relationship with the chairman may have become strained but we have a hands on chairman who ultimately thinks he knows better than he people he employs. And the root cause of his problems lie closer to home.  The financial problems, the recruitment failures, and the Rooney circus are not created by Phillip cocu. 

carry on. But ffs sake pick knight AND Sibley. 

[ossieram]

5 hours ago, Jourdan said:

but my post refers to what I imagine Mel is thinking

Stopped reading after that.

[GboroRam]

2 hours ago, RamNut said:

The season only really began v Forest due to the injuries and absentees.
The result and performance away at Forest was ok. 
The result and performance at home to Cardiff was a bit disappointing.

But there are mitigating factors. this is a squad going through the throes of significant transition.

last season we played a possession game with short passing that became a vice. 
this season we have ended up reverting to a rowett-ball deep defensive block with long range hoofing towards counter attacking strikers (reminiscent of weimann and co). We have sacrificed quality in search of a tactical fix to our defensive frailty. We are beginning to look like an effective defensive Unit, but with an ineffective attack, and a lack of midfield creativity.

the manager Is walking a tightrope in the context of a major financial wobble, a reliance on academy youngsters, a mixed bag of recruitment, and significant squad turnover. 

it is very frustrating but any decline is primarily as a consequence of weaning ourselves off players we could not afford.
there has to be collective responsibility for the situation that has been created. 
The manager has shown tactical dexterity and had mended the defence. He is entitled to more than two games with a full squad to show what he can do. In those two games results and performances are ok-ish. Despite dodgy substitutions and other doubts, I can’t see evidence of failure sufficient to prompt dismissal.

the relationship with the chairman may have become strained but we have a hands on chairman who ultimately thinks he knows better than he people he employs. And the root cause of his problems lie closer to home.  The financial problems, the recruitment failures, and the Rooney circus are not created by Phillip cocu. 

carry on. But ffs sake pick knight AND Sibley. 

Am I watching the wrong team? Rowett-ball?

Last night I watched a team trying, and mostly succeeding, with a possession-based passing game. Tempo is improving now as well.

I am happy to watch this football, but under Rowett I wasn't.

Keep the faith. Long way to go but I can see a style forming and with a bit more bite up front I can see the shoots of an exciting, attacking team.

[rynny]

8 hours ago, Half fan said:

Taking off the two wing backs tonight must have impacted adversely on the team's positivity and its confidence that it could score the much-needed second goal.

You mean the 2 wing backs that had knocks and couldn't carry on? No, you are right, we should've left them on the pitch hobbling around. 

[Duracell]

Been pleasantly surprised by our level-headedness at the moment. Yeah, it gets a bit much on social media, but read through this thread and this amount of sensible debate after a dog turd start to the season would have been alien to us a few years back.

We're not a toxic fan base.

I'm not a toxic fan!! 

 

 

 

 

But seriously don't sack Cocu.

[neil62uk]

Don't want to sound to critical. ..last 3 games Huddesfield , Red dogs , Cardiff ,  first half performance,s  wouldn't say they were world beaters ...but could have had all 3 games sewn up via h/t ...  then comes the second half  have a real bad tendency to sit back and invite the oppersiton  on   ironically all 3 games we've conceded  a poor second half goal ...  

would I have taken 2points out of the last 3 fixtures  prior to kick off  possibly yes ... but then looking back it could have quite  easily been 7 points ..  it will come right  C.O.Y.R ?

[Anag Ram]

3 hours ago, RamNut said:

The season only really began v Forest due to the injuries and absentees.
The result and performance away at Forest was ok. 
The result and performance at home to Cardiff was a bit disappointing.

But there are mitigating factors. this is a squad going through the throes of significant transition.

last season we played a possession game with short passing that became a vice. 
this season we have ended up reverting to a rowett-ball deep defensive block with long range hoofing towards counter attacking strikers (reminiscent of weimann and co). We have sacrificed quality in search of a tactical fix to our defensive frailty. We are beginning to look like an effective defensive Unit, but with an ineffective attack, and a lack of midfield creativity.

the manager Is walking a tightrope in the context of a major financial wobble, a reliance on academy youngsters, a mixed bag of recruitment, and significant squad turnover. 

it is very frustrating but any decline is primarily as a consequence of weaning ourselves off players we could not afford.
there has to be collective responsibility for the situation that has been created. 
The manager has shown tactical dexterity and had mended the defence. He is entitled to more than two games with a full squad to show what he can do. In those two games results and performances are ok-ish. Despite dodgy substitutions and other doubts, I can’t see evidence of failure sufficient to prompt dismissal.

the relationship with the chairman may have become strained but we have a hands on chairman who ultimately thinks he knows better than he people he employs. And the root cause of his problems lie closer to home.  The financial problems, the recruitment failures, and the Rooney circus are not created by Phillip cocu. 

carry on. But ffs sake pick knight AND Sibley. 

I thought we were good in the first half, wasteful in the second. Just a few poor decisions in and around the box.

The defence is looking better but we may have to ditch one if we are to score enough goals to win games.

Also a bit worrying that three big defenders let Hoilett beat them twice. Between him and Moore they hit the woodwork three times so we can consider ourselves a bit lucky.

Overall more mid-table than relegation fodder at present.

[RoyMac5]

8 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Maybe you’re right and Mel is totally relaxed, but it’s hard to imagine.

5 points from 24 this season. 5 goals in 10 competitive games. Just two goals scored from open play. 14 goals conceded and just two clean sheets in all competitions. Just one win in normal time.

Cocu’s inability to get results has created this pressure. Nothing else. No-one else. Have the fans added to it? Yes. Have the media added to it? Also yes.

I hope he finds his way out of it.

Do you? I don't. I've got to the point where I'm convinced that he doesn't know how to play us in this League. Or at all really. The way we played last night was ordinary in the extreme - the Table doesn't lie.