Sack cocu

[deanoakaram4life]

Coaches make instant impacts.

Wilder at Sheffield Utd with no money at all.

Bielsa at Leeds without a warchest 

Dyche at Burnley

These managers know how to set up a side and get results. I'm all for giving managers time but I'm not seeing any green shoots whatsoever. If we are still floundering in the next 5 he can go for me.

[Tyler Durden]

6 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Why keep banging on about having yet another new manager.......why do something that hasn’t worked? 

Whats the old saying apparently but  questionably quoted by Einstein about the definition of insanity? ?

Maybe it's not the process that needs changing though ? maybe it's finding the correct individual which is the issue. 

[Shuff264]

33 minutes ago, jono said:

I see your point but I very much doubt there will be even a peep of a real Cocu out intent from the powers that be, until Feb and then only if we are in or just above the drop zone.
 

Personally I don’t think we will be. I also think Cocu will be here next season after an upper mid table finish 

Feel like I should be clear here and say im 100% behind Cocu, just suggesting that the transfer window will affect decision making.

I fully expect us to be at least mid table this season.

[cannable]

3 minutes ago, jono said:

But it is isn’t “austerity” ? it’s sanity 

Oh come on, it’s a choice of noun.

Sanity is not spunking £25,000,000 up the wall on transfer fees and quadrupling the wage bill from 2014-2018. 

[Curtains]

 

[Asanovic70]

4 minutes ago, Abu Dhabi Ram said:

No one can be called the next Jim Smith until they perform miracles at DCFC. TBE has been the only truly successful manager for us in the last three decades. 

 Smith played his part in wasting £20m & lost the plot after McClaren left for Man United. He's rightly remembered for that promotion/the PL. I know what I shall say will be unpopular, but let's not be sentimental here and disguise the truth. His signings towards the end were shocking, i.e, Bragstad, Beck, and sent us spiralling into debt, leading to the Three Amigos. It is all interconnected.

Why should I feel sorry for Cocu? This is a guy who spent £10m on Bielik (the fee could be less, admittedly). It's not his fault the player got injured, he's unfortunate, but so was Nigel when Shaun Barker got seriously injured. He couldn't go out & buy like for like, or pay £1m for a loan fee.

The point I was trying to make about Clough, another manager with a long-term view, is that I believe if he had had some of the finances given so readily to others, and wasted on Anya, then we may have challenged for the top 6, but people lost patience and faith; yes, you may argue differently, that's your prerogative, but the platform was there, McClaren couldn't believe his luck what he inherited. 

I think Cocu has made some very strange decisions in my opinion. We're playing with the same formation as Bristol City where Martin plays alongside another striker. Now I thought the attack needed freshening up, but our manager is now playing 5-3-2. We have let two strikers leave and upgraded them with...Kazim-Richards.  It irritates how some fans cannot offer Clough any token of thanks & forget what he had to put up with. He spent money well, the little he had, and if he made a mistake, he usually made up for it by getting someone in on a free (Ward). We've lost this ability to get value for money & buying players for what they can bring to the side in terms of character, leadership (captain) as well as ability (which costs, admittedly). It is about getting a balance. 

Football is about opinions, I think I've seen enough to think Cocu is not the man for the role. I cannot remember the last time at Champ'ship level that we shipped three goals & were beaten after 15 minutes.  Other overseas managers in the Championship have come in and made an immediate impact in less time than Cocu has: one arrived two weeks before the new season & still managed to beat us. If Cocu is so good, how come the guy at Bristol City has managed to find a formation & brought in the required players, in his first job? 

I think we have become a soft touch in terms of a football team but also as a club that lavishes its largesse on players & is a bit of a financial basket-case. Clough was unspectacular but he built an organic team, he didn't have the good fortune to inherit a functioning Academy but had to appoint Wassall to oversee it. Cocu has had many  more advantages, money for transfers; the Academy.

We keep hearing about these injured players, waiting to return. I think we're clutching at straws. The proof is the defence, 43 goals conceded on the road last season, only two sides conceded more, one was Hull. Now we have added to that sorry fact, an inability to score & make chances.

Cocu has no higher a standing in Europe than another Philippe, Montanier at Forest. A success in Spain with Real Sociedad, he was found wanting at the City Ground. I see the same happening here at Pride Park.

 

 

 

[jono]

17 minutes ago, cannable said:

Oh come on, it’s a choice of noun.

Sanity is not spunking £25,000,000 up the wall on transfer fees and quadrupling the wage bill from 2014-2018. 

And austerity isn’t when you are trying to put it right.
 

Yes, ok it’s a choice of noun but you must see that using austerity as your noun of choice carries so much loaded baggage and judgment with it, that is is a very poor choice when you want to make a point.?

yes .. ok, I was quick out of the traps and jumped on it. Maybe I should have been more temperate. Ackkk just feeling narky because everyone thinks if a box get ticked then it should happen Even before you’ve refreshed a page. It doesn’t !

[G-Ram]

Im interested to see how we line up when everyone is fit.

 With Lawrence, Sibley Holmes & jozwiak. I think we have some of the best forward players we've had since ince, russell & ward. We might be missing a striker we all want. 

So im interested to see whether we start playing some attractive attacking football or try to cram in as many defensive midfielders as possible & convert Ibe to a left wing back 

[BondJovi]

35 minutes ago, deanoakaram4life said:

Coaches make instant impacts.

Wilder at Sheffield Utd with no money at all.

Bielsa at Leeds without a warchest 

Dyche at Burnley

These managers know how to set up a side and get results. I'm all for giving managers time but I'm not seeing any green shoots whatsoever. If we are still floundering in the next 5 he can go for me.

Is that Wilder who has 1 point from 5 games. And Dyche 0 from 3.

Hmmm.

[Mostyn6]

any manager should be judged on getting 7/10 performances from his players... if those players aren't up to winning, that's a different story, but we all know when a player is giving his best.

[Nuwtfly]

3 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

any manager should be judged on getting 7/10 performances from his players... if those players aren't up to winning, that's a different story, but we all know when a player is giving his best.

Would be interested to see who you would bring in if Cocu went tomorrow.

Not saying I agree/disagree with any of the points you made. Can see where you're coming from with a lot of it.

Just interested to hear what your personal solution to the problem would be and why.

[deanoakaram4life]

6 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

Is that Wilder who has 1 point from 5 games. And Dyche 0 from 3.

Hmmm.

Both have manged to get their teams to promise land.... and stay there, with duck all funding 

[Tyler Durden]

9 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

Is that Wilder who has 1 point from 5 games. And Dyche 0 from 3.

Hmmm.

On one hand the consensus on here is it's unfair to judge Cocu on the basis of a few games this season. But then it is OK to make the same judgement for other managers if it then fits in with your agenda. 

Sauce for the goose. 

[cannable]

4 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

On one hand the consensus on here is it's unfair to judge Cocu on the basis of a few games this season. But then it is OK to make the same judgement for other managers if it then fits in with your agenda. 

Sauce for the goose. 

Isn’t he sarcastically pointing out why you shouldn’t judge a manager after a few games? 

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, cannable said:

Isn’t he sarcastically pointing out why you shouldn’t judge a manager after a few games? 

I don't know. What do they say about sarcasm being the lowest form of wit. 

[Mostyn6]

6 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Would be interested to see who you would bring in if Cocu went tomorrow.

Not saying I agree/disagree with any of the points you made. Can see where you're coming from with a lot of it.

Just interested to hear what your personal solution to the problem would be and why.

there are 2 options for me. My concerns with Cocu is that, in the 35+ years of me consciously watching football, his style and philosophy has never been successful in leading to promotions and titles in ENGLISH football.

So I would look at one of two options. 

1, someone who can get the very best out of players, by either organisation, motivation or tactical prowess. This would be someone who creates that siege mentality, however it doesn't always last long. In this category is the old Billy Davies, Ian Holloway, Slaven Bilic type manager who can inspire players to "run through brick walls".

or 

2, someone with a proven methodology and style that has been proven to work in this league. The football may not always be inspiring or entertaining, but it is often pragmatic and successful. In this category is Sam Alladyce, Neil Warnock, Steve Bruce, Chris Hughton and Sean Dyche.

What is clear to me is that Cocu is neither entertaining, nor getting the best out of players by being an inspirational manager, and his methodology isn't condusive to success in English football. I'm saddened this is the case, but I cannot see anything to suggest I am wrong.

[Mostyn6]

11 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

On one hand the consensus on here is it's unfair to judge Cocu on the basis of a few games this season. But then it is OK to make the same judgement for other managers if it then fits in with your agenda. 

Sauce for the goose. 

I'm certainly not judging him on this season. I can remember last season too. But allowances were made.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Anyone know where there is a pro Derby County forum? No?.   See you later 

[BondJovi]

3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I don't know. What do they say about sarcasm being the lowest form of wit. 

No sarcasm. Just pointing out a fact. 

Apologies for having the audacity to highlight a ridiculous nature of this inane and tiresome argument.

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

22 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

any manager should be judged on getting 7/10 performances from his players... if those players aren't up to winning, that's a different story, but we all know when a player is giving his best.

Whilst I agree with you, the real trouble us fan have is we can better see this when we are at the ground in person, TV coverage doesn’t show the bigger picture. 
I like PC and think things will come together fairly quickly (once the full squad is available for selection).

I believe the lockdown and zero fans in attendance is PC’s only stroke of good fortune since he took over, if fans were still in the ground with the recent run of results he would have undoubtedly been chased out of Derby.