Sack cocu

[MackworthRamIsGod]

9 hours ago, Birdyabroad said:

I cannot believe I am the first person to revive this thread tonight.

Again I ask, have our expectations fallen so low that we’re no longer questioning the managers position when we’ve just drawn at home; 5 points in 8.

I’m going to recount a story. As I’m born and bred in East London (Raised a Derby fan via family connections) I remember well the 02/03 West Ham Premier League season.

Glen Roeder, another nice guy manager like Cocu, managed to get a team with the likes of David James, Defoe, Joe Cole, Kanoute, Di Canio, Lee Bowyer, Les Ferdinand relegated.

All along the ammers fans were saying they’re too good to go down and that Roeder was ‘turning a corner’.

This is sounding eerily familiar to me.

Whilst I accept that there are green shoots and tonight players like Buchanan, Knight and Jozzy excite me, we just need to be doing better.

Given the talent that we have in our team and the potential of the young-uns coming through, can we be certain that another manager would not be doing better?

Cocu seems a decent bloke and I may get some stick tonight, but I really think we need to reset the manager position before we do a West Ham.

I absolutely GUARANTEE that if we lose at the weekend (And I don’t want us to lose by the way) they’ll be plenty more on this thread calling for the chop from Mel.

I want Cocu to succeed, but I think I've seen enough to know that is very unlikely to happen. 

We score 1 goal and he tries to protect that lead at all costs. We were warned about this from PSV fans. He isnt brave enough to try to get the 2nd before shutting up shop.

People think Ibe is going to be our saviour, in a Cocu team I can see Ibe clashing massively with Cocu. Imagine telling Ibe to sit deep and defend our lead rather than attack successfully like we did in the first half. 

In my opinion we should be 4 points better off, we had Forest on the back foot on Friday, forget the disallowed goal, we conceded because we started defending very deep. Last night the same, at one point during the first half I looked at us and thought Cardiff have nothing to offer. Then the 2nd half we just sat in and bought defender after defender on trying to protect a lead we gave away anyway. I'd rather concede a goal while attacking trying to get the 2nd, at least it would have  been entertaining.

No team is too good to go down, look at Leeds, Forest, Norwich, Sunderland, Ipswich, Blackburn as examples of big ex premier league clubs that get relegated. We need to be careful or it could be us.

 

[RamNut]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

Am I watching the wrong team? Rowett-ball?

Last night I watched a team trying, and mostly succeeding, with a possession-based passing game. Tempo is improving now as well.

I am happy to watch this football, but under Rowett I wasn't.

Keep the faith. Long way to go but I can see a style forming and with a bit more bite up front I can see the shoots of an exciting, attacking team.

I think we are sitting back. Absorbing the punches and hitting a lot of long balls. The game was very scrappy as a result. We had a decent last ten minutes but it’s a recipe for drawing rather than winning. 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

9 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

One season into a four year contract.

The squad is beginning to play the high press game that Cocu wants. We are playing with more intent and creating more chances every game. 

The players are starting to believe just like the Leeds players did under Bielsa.

 

Starting to believe what?

That Santa is real? That the tooth fairy exists? That Pamela Anderson's knockers are real?

I think any of those are more believable than us scoring a goal from open play at the minute.

Do you really think professional footballers buy into sitting in their own half for a 45 minute period protecting a 1 goal lead? Perhaps they do? I imagine they wouldn't.

[Jourdan]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Do you? I don't. I've got to the point where I'm convinced that he doesn't know how to play us in this League. Or at all really. The way we played last night was ordinary in the extreme - the Table doesn't lie.

Well he is the manager of Derby, so of course I hope he finds success and the winning formula.

Do I genuinely think he will? Honestly, no. At this point, I think results like yesterday’s are delaying the inevitable.

I totally agree with you that the table doesn’t lie and that we have been very poor so far this season.

What makes it worse for me is that I don’t think the opposition have been good or had to play particularly well to take points off us.

[AndyinLiverpool]

15 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I want Cocu to succeed, but I think I've seen enough to know that is very unlikely to happen. 

We score 1 goal and he tries to protect that lead at all costs. We were warned about this from PSV fans. He isnt brave enough to try to get the 2nd before shutting up shop.

People think Ibe is going to be our saviour, in a Cocu team I can see Ibe clashing massively with Cocu. Imagine telling Ibe to sit deep and defend our lead rather than attack successfully like we did in the first half. 

In my opinion we should be 4 points better off, we had Forest on the back foot on Friday, forget the disallowed goal, we conceded because we started defending very deep. Last night the same, at one point during the first half I looked at us and thought Cardiff have nothing to offer. Then the 2nd half we just sat in and bought defender after defender on trying to protect a lead we gave away anyway. I'd rather concede a goal while attacking trying to get the 2nd, at least it would have  been entertaining.

No team is too good to go down, look at Leeds, Forest, Norwich, Sunderland, Ipswich, Blackburn as examples of big ex premier league clubs that get relegated. We need to be careful or it could be us.

 

How can you want him to succeed and want him to be replaced?

[RoyMac5]

7 hours ago, sage said:

Also since that game we have played a succession of teams we bigger budgets than ourselves (mainly due to parachute payments) and face another one on Saturday.

The real proof of the pudding will be the QPR and Barnsley games.

Don't we have to play the bigger budget teams ever again then? Phew that'll make staying up easier! ? Seriously...

[RoyMac5]

4 hours ago, RamNut said:

the manager Is walking a tightrope in the context of a major financial wobble, a reliance on academy youngsters, a mixed bag of recruitment, and significant squad turnover. 

it is very frustrating but any decline is primarily as a consequence of weaning ourselves off players we could not afford.
there has to be collective responsibility for the situation that has been created. 

A collective responsibility, so you can't remove Cocu and his team from that. The best he makes from what resources he has is mostly quite ordinary. Maybe because most of the players are quite ordinary, but maybe not. Don't think Cocu is ever going to get us playing better than the sum of our parts and not much exciting football either.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

9 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

You're half right. I think another sacking and we could hit a spiral that we don't survive, yes. But I don't think Cocu is Rowett who brought in players on a short term fix and dismantled the nucleus of a decent side in doing so. For me, once he'd done that, we were 'in blood stepped so deep' hence my stance. It was never 'stability for the sake of stability'. I think I made that pretty clear at the time as well as the fact that I didn't really enjoy the football at all. It was effective, but we might as well have not had a midfield IMO.

The only other similarity was that I backed Rowett to get us to the play offs, to much derision from many quarters and herein lies the pinch; I'm utterly convinced that Cocu can too. For me the big difference is that if the players and to a lesser extent, us fans will just buy in, batten down the hatches and believe, we can do it playing football the right way. I see a an ugly duckling turning slowly into a swan, though I concede others see nothing of the sort, but I can also see a potential spiral of fear and pressure too.

And for the record, I think my 2-1 Derby win was far closer to fruition than your 'I can only see' a 3-1 loss. Given that you 'could only foresee' a loss, it's incongruous that you should be so critical of the performance what with us being at very least, good value for the draw and that, my old mucker, is the very crux of my argument.

Anyway, I hate miserable Kash and love fired up, we are one, COYR Kash, so the sooner Cocu gets this poo sorted the better as us happy-clappers can't carry you moany lot forever ?

I don't see myself as miserable but I do think that that I'm seeing the reality of our situation.......some improvements in some of our play but still little end result in terms of results.

As such and despite our now fielding a 95% cocu,full strength team we are still sitting at the foot of the table with very few goals being scored.

If you go back through my posts last night,you will see I was full of praise for waggys goal and also the players individual efforts throughout the game.

My problems was with the gaffers tactics of sitting back on a tight lead once again and his lack of attacking nous....a criticism that has been present almost since day one of time here but highlighted by our now precarious position.

[Jubbs]

1 hour ago, rynny said:

You mean the 2 wing backs that had knocks and couldn't carry on? No, you are right, we should've left them on the pitch hobbling around. 

As well as 5ft 6inches Byrne be targeted from every long ball

[Jubbs]

32 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

We were warned about this from PSV fans

Like the case with Derby fans warning fans about different people, it's normally the minority. I saw more PSV fans saying he'll do great than saying he's rubbish. 

 

44 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

He isnt brave enough to try to get the 2nd before shutting up shop.

He averaged over 2 goals a game for PSV and in his final season, averaged over 2.5 goals per game.

 

46 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

People think Ibe is going to be our saviour, in a Cocu team I can see Ibe clashing massively with Cocu

This is a take and a half. Ibe wouldn't have joined if he wasn't on board with Cocu.

 

48 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I'd rather concede a goal while attacking trying to get the 2nd, at least it would have  been entertaining.

This right here is weird. Lets lose these games 3-1 rather than actually getting points. Then you go on to say we need to be careful otherwise we'll get relegated????

[RoyMac5]

23 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

As well as 5ft 6inches Byrne be targeted from every long ball

Did Cocu not realise how short he was or how they play?

[Jubbs]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Did Cocu not realise how short he was or how they play?

Or he knew he'd help us get chances and would hopefully be winning by more than 1 going into the latter stages, then bring on MtW/Fozzy to help deal with even more long balls. The plan wasn't bad and would've worked if our strikers did the correct things when through on goal. 

[MuespachRam]

8 hours ago, Andicis said:

Part of the worst team in history. Legend. 

So was Steve Howard...and Giles Barnes...and Matt Oakley...that make all those players idiots too...??

Still can’t pay the fact that he is the best and most successful manager we have had since Jim Smith...and he got the “worst team in history” promoted easily....!! Just let that sink in...

[BondJovi]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Did Cocu not realise how short he was or how they play?

I would have thought the answer was obvious. Sure you can figure it out. But it wouldn't suit the anti Cocu ideal.

[uttoxram75]

49 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Starting to believe what?

That Santa is real? That the tooth fairy exists? That Pamela Anderson's knockers are real?

I think any of those are more believable than us scoring a goal from open play at the minute.

Do you really think professional footballers buy into sitting in their own half for a 45 minute period protecting a 1 goal lead? Perhaps they do? I imagine they wouldn't.

We created some decent chances in the second half, another day they'll go in. The goals will come with continuing improved performance.

Its pointless arguing with me, you'll be apologising by Christmas when we are tearing up the league.

[Birdyabroad]

58 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I want Cocu to succeed, but I think I've seen enough to know that is very unlikely to happen. 

We score 1 goal and he tries to protect that lead at all costs. We were warned about this from PSV fans. He isnt brave enough to try to get the 2nd before shutting up shop.

People think Ibe is going to be our saviour, in a Cocu team I can see Ibe clashing massively with Cocu. Imagine telling Ibe to sit deep and defend our lead rather than attack successfully like we did in the first half. 

In my opinion we should be 4 points better off, we had Forest on the back foot on Friday, forget the disallowed goal, we conceded because we started defending very deep. Last night the same, at one point during the first half I looked at us and thought Cardiff have nothing to offer. Then the 2nd half we just sat in and bought defender after defender on trying to protect a lead we gave away anyway. I'd rather concede a goal while attacking trying to get the 2nd, at least it would have  been entertaining.

No team is too good to go down, look at Leeds, Forest, Norwich, Sunderland, Ipswich, Blackburn as examples of big ex premier league clubs that get relegated. We need to be careful or it could be us.

 

Agree totally. 

It WILL be us if we stick with Cocu I fear.

He’s a nice guy, don’t care. I’m a nice guy, but if I was mediocre / borderline incompetent at my job, then I’d be long gone.

Anyone who is accepting of the football we’re currently playing is accepting mediocrity at best.

Cocu needs to go and someone with a bit of attacking intent needs to be given a chance.

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, Birdyabroad said:

Agree totally. 

It WILL be us if we stick with Cocu I fear.

He’s a nice guy, don’t care. I’m a nice guy, but if I was mediocre / borderline incompetent at my job, then I’d be long gone.

Anyone who is accepting of the football we’re currently playing is accepting mediocrity at best.

Cocu needs to go and someone with a bit of attacking intent needs to be given a chance.

Go where he’s on a 4 year contract. 

Are you going to pay him off 

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

I would have thought the answer was obvious. Sure you can figure it out. But it wouldn't suit the anti Cocu ideal.

So obvious but it didn't work anyway.

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Go where he’s on a 4 year contract. 

Are you going to pay him off 

Shall we all have a crowdfunding?

[MackworthRamIsGod]

51 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

How can you want him to succeed and want him to be replaced?

That is a bit of a strange question.

I want him to succeed because he is a nice man, I wouldn't want anyone to lose their job, it would be nice to have stability, it would cost lots to replace him.

But, it isnt working, we are in one of our worst runs of form for a long time (be interested to know how long), if we include pre-season we have won 2 games in 19, the tactics are poor, substitutions bizarre, football rubbish.

The only saving grace at the minute is I havent got to get ready and walk to Pride Park to watch it. I try to forget that I'm currently paying 420 quid for the privilege of watching on my sofa.