Derby County v Blackburn Rovers

[JfR]

I know it seems a pedantic point to make when we conceded four, but I'd love to know how the linesman thought their first goal (which 39 scored) was onside

EDIT: On second thoughts, he might be behind the ball

[CBRammette]

30 minutes ago, rad1919 said:

Exactly which bit?

All of it

[dcfcreece1601]

Did anyone notice that byrne was absolutely terrible today? Me and my dad we watched the game and countless times the left winger was free and byrne was no where to be seen in our half it was actually frightening to see he was basically playing right forward all game? 

[BramcoteRam84]

Wow. Definitely the nuclear reaction I was expecting on here tonight after today’s performance. Since joining this forum post Clement I’ve always tried to be balanced and positive in my posts and have generally been supportive of all the managers we have had, even Pearson although that is the one time since Jewell where I’ve felt something was fundamentally wrong and he had to go.

Reading back through the posts and reading other threads, the usual negative posters are out in force saying they’re right since day one that Cocu’s not up to the job etc, some of those posters post the same about all recent managers off the back of bad results. Then there are posters that are More positive, glass half full when it comes to Cocu and the long term strategy he is trying to follow. I’m still very much in that camp. Then there are those in the middle who think it’s the wrong call to sack him but remain to be convinced he’s the man to take us forward.

I think it’s important to have some perspective on the game today. 5 mad minutes effectively ended the game as a contest, ironically the preceding 10 mins there had only been one team in it and that was us. Seems a long time ago now. It’s hard to really analyse anything from 15 mins on as those 3 goals killed it. If Bird’s chance had gone in and we took the lead then could’ve been a different story.

That all being said you feel the defeat today and certainly the manner of it has shifted more people into the camp of wanting Cocu gone. Even those who are Cocu supporters are today questioning elements of the tactics and team selection. It’s inevitable, today however you look at it was a poo day, it was the worst home performance since Sunderland under Rowett and the worst performance of Cocu’s tenure. I (as part of the optimist club) was expecting regardless of the result a continuation of the positive second half against Luton. While today was decided and somewhat distorted by a mad 5 minutes, what ensued was way way below the standards anyone expected.

Cocu is still following a long term plan. Many on here have been buoyed by this transfer window describing it as the best for a while, and I believe there is still a general feeling that we have the bones of a competitive team with significant potential that will only get better when established players come back from injury and new signings get fit and bed in. It also cannot be denied he’s arguably had the toughest job since Clough rejigging an overpaid unbalanced squad, then adding in the off field crap he has had to deal with and lesser managers would’ve walked away from. Cocu has dealt with everything thrown at him with dignity and humility and I certainly get from his interviews that he’s fully invested in the club and wants to build something, unlike Rowett Lampard and Clement who were just passing through.

However, whichever way you look at it the worst start to a league season in 28 years creates unwanted pressure and despite Cocu focussing on the long term strategy and development of the club, he now finds himself needing results to give him the chance to prove he’s the man to see the job through and take us back to the promised land. A tough run of games coming up only adds to the pressure. You feel this is a key crisis point and could go either way. The only thing in Cocu’s favour is we’ve been here already in his tenure, the Brentford and Fulham away performances, the back to back wins against Charlton and Barnsley that were critical to turn last season around and stop us being dragged into a relegation battle. We’ve shown positive reactions to adversity under Cocu and we need to again now more than ever because even if he is the right man to see it through (and I still think he is), lose the next few games and he won’t get the chance. 
 

Big week, Big calls to make, switch to 4-3-3? Take Bird Sibley and Rooney out the team? Stick with MTW? Get a striker in. Time to earn your money Mr Cocu.

[IlsonDerby]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

For showing **something**, I've seen nothing at all. It'll take a long time for him to improve to average. He's currently way below the expected level.

To be honest I never thought Bird would make it above conference level after his few games with us under Lampard. 
 

Im not saying MTW will make it here but I’m gonna give him some time to adjust to the more physical nature of English football before writing him off. 

[Brammie Steve]

The really discouraging thing sbout today's humiliation IMHO is....

Even if we could exorcise the 5 minutes in which we let in three goals..

We would still have been beaten by the odd goal and fail to ever really look like scoring.

Were I any other team in this division I would have loved to come up against the Rams on today's showing.

From here, where?

[Brammie Steve]

1 hour ago, JfR said:

I know it seems a pedantic point to make when we conceded four, but I'd love to know how the linesman thought their first goal (which 39 scored) was onside

EDIT: On second thoughts, he might be behind the ball

They were all onside bar three!

[Andicis]

15 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

To be honest I never thought Bird would make it above conference level after his few games with us under Lampard. 
 

Im not saying MTW will make it here but I’m gonna give him some time to adjust to the more physical nature of English football before writing him off. 

Bird was so young when he started with us. Mike Te Wierik is in his prime. It's not a fair comparison. It's the basics he can't do. He's not a proper defender. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

Bird was so young when he started with us. Mike Te Wierik is in his prime. It's not a fair comparison. It's the basics he can't do. He's not a proper defender. 

I imagine he's probably the right player for Cocu in the system he wants to play, problem being its not working for either..  Not a huge watcher of dutch football, but I imagine the apple doesn't fall far, so its going to be slow build and possession based with both teams playing the same . He's looking leaden footed and like a rabbit in headlights at the minute as some 6 ft 2 geezer runs directly at him at the same time the goalie shunts a ball straight into the box over his head and  gets instant pressure when he gets the ball as per the norm in this league.

It's not pretty and he needs to quicken his thinking and aggressiveness sharpish.  Seen him compared to Albentosa who I think was better as he had the physicality .

 Always felt a bit sorry for him as I don't think Keogh was a great partner to have. He always seemed to be unsure who he was picking up without much advice from his skipper, other than a bollocking when a goal was conceded. 

[dantheram]

12 hours ago, MK-Ram said:

You say this but I cannot think of a single manager I would want to replace him.

I’d sooner have a ducking chimp than this twit.  

[Old Spalding Ram]

Here’s a question for the tactical whizz kids on here.

 

How does a team with 37% possession have 23 shots at goal?

[Gone]

16 minutes ago, Old Spalding Ram said:

Here’s a question for the tactical whizz kids on here.

 

How does a team with 37% possession have 23 shots at goal?

Play against Derby

[Archied]

Hmmmmmmm , give it an overnight before posting so I can read this whole thread ( always a big read when we lose ,win not so much)

I know wisdom considers his best position to be CB and some on here call for him to be played there as if he’s the best CB at the club but sorry he’s just NOT and especially NOT in a team that wants to play out , he’s a liability in the middle of the park and should never be played there again barring emergencies, not a pop at him personally he’s just not a CB

mike t ? I’ve come to realise that some fans like/ need a conduit to vent through ,he was far from the worst performer yesterday and has played 3 league games but he’s the chosen one for some to focus all their frustrations on ,no point arguing they won’t see it ,the very nature of the judge a New player on The basis of 3 games in a struggling side tells you that

Rooney ? My view is the clock may have stopped / the battery on the Casio run down , if he can’t play up front anymore then I don’t see how we can keep picking him , he’s a liability playing deep as he loses possession too cheaply, too often in real dangerous positions and does not have the energy or perhaps inclination to win it back or defend properly, as a result we are have to play two defensive midfielder to cover it , it’s not working and not worth it for the odd great ball or flash of the old magic , tough decision time for cocu and the club and perhaps one which will shine a light on whether cocu has what it takes to succeed here and whether he has the backing to do so

cocu ? As most know I’m supportive of him and not into reactionary knee jerk get rid after a few poor results or poor run , that said I think we are entering a period where he will sink or swim , I love the build ethos but you have to balance it with some semblance of first team performance/ results and no manager is going too survive long at a club like Derby if they have too many performances like yesterday, like it or not they just aren’t, he has to get a grip of these players now and get some fight and organisation into them or he’s gone pretty soon

[Jayram]

11 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

  15 hours ago, Jayram said:

The right person wouldn’t need to; he’d just get the best out of the decent players we have, something the current manager is consistently failing to do.

 

11 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

Can you be sure? 
For me to want Cocu gone I’d have to know that an incoming manager would continue with the project of developing and promoting our exciting youth whilst playing football that’s enjoyable to watch. 
 

Otherwise I’d take giving Cocu longer to turn things around. 

Yeah I’m pretty sure. The bloke at Reading didn’t even get a pre-season with his players and yet already he has managed to get them to the top of the Championship playing strong direct attractive football that works at this level. Someone like Paul Cook would have our squad storming up this league playing decent football while carefully blooding the young players rather than throwing half the U-23’s in at once and expecting them to be ready (although that is more our useless chairman’s doing).

Cocu has only one way of playing and is forcing square pegs into round holes as we saw yesterday with some of the bizarre tactical decisions he made. Playing this way isn’t going to work in the Championship and he either has to recognise this and change the philosophy or go. 

[G STAR RAM]

Now the dust has settled (and the beer worn off) here are my thoughts from yesterday.

Marshall - Nothing he could do about the goals. Made some decent saves. Some dodgy distribution when put under pressure

Byrne - Thought he was at fault for first goal. Got sucked out of position and left his man free. Wasnt great defensively but offers some threat going forward. Basically the same as most of our recent right back

Te Wierik - Really struggling, madness for him to be brought back in for Clarke. Time for him to adjust but more performances like this will lead to pressure growing on him. My worry is that he cannot do the basic things which make a good centre back in this division 

Wisdom - Think in the past he has said he wants to play centre back rather than right back, well he has not done his case any good in the last 2 weeks. Really disappointed because we know he is much more capable than what he is showing. In his defence, 4 games in he has played in 4 different positions and has not been part of a settled defence 

Buchanan - Given the run around first half and luck not to red carded for a ridiculous challenge. Better second half and like Byrne looks ok going forward. Should have scored with a header

Bird - I want to see more energy from this guy. Looked class when his partnership with Rooney was working last season, looks pretty average now Rooney is doing nothing. Should have scored

Rooney - Said it last week and will say it again this week, he has lost his hunger. We cannot continue carrying someone for 89 minutes just for a few good passes/flicks

Knight - Probably the one player that can hold his head high. I feel as though his energy would be much better utilised in the middle of the pitch

Jozwiak - Worked hard, few glimpses of what he has to offer. Decision making was poor

Sibley - A few decent touches early on but faded badly. I want him taking out of the firing line because current form could be damaging

Marriott - Could have played without him and would have made no difference 

Despite all of this and the deserved criticism coming their way, I actually thought yesterday was our best attacking performance and I think that will be reflected in our shots/shots on target stats.

Defensively though we were very woeful and it was an alarming collapse.

Wont bother repeating what many other posters have said as I think it's clear to see the problems.

Worrying times for both us and Cocu I imagine

[Carnero]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Knight - Probably the one player that can hold his head high. I feel as though his energy would be much better utilised in the middle of the pitch

?

[ossieram]

9 hours ago, Brummie Steve said:

and fail to ever really look like scoring.

I thought we looked like scoring on a few occasions yesterday.

Bird shot cleared, Sibley header well saved, Buchanon headed over and should have hit the target, Jozwiak had 2 cracking chances.

[The_Sheriff]

9 minutes ago, ossieram said:

I thought we looked like scoring on a few occasions yesterday.

Bird shot cleared, Sibley header well saved, Buchanon headed over and should have hit the target, Jozwiak had 2 cracking chances.

Whittaker 1v1 to add to that

[Chellaston Ram]

Blackburn reminded me how Leeds play, high pressing and bags of energy. We couldn’t cope with Leeds and still don’t appear to be able to cope with that style of play now 

[GenBr]

12 hours ago, Dean Saunder’s hat trick said:

Just seen some brief highlights on sky sports. Makes it look like we had some decent chances and had it not being for switching off for 5 mins in the first half when we looked all over the ship could have been a closer game? That being said we’d have had to score one of our chances which clearly we couldn’t!

Woeful pass from Rooney that sets up there 4th though

We did actually look quite good for the first 10 minutes. If you'd switched off around then you'd have thought we were golden for the rest of the match.

We then conceded one like we usually do (it's not a fair competition if you don't give the opposing team a head start), which you would think would give the players a bit of motivation to go out and score. Alas we just gave up and let them have another couple a few minutes later. We then didn't look like scoring for the rest of the half, but they could have had another 3 or 4 in that time.

Second half we looked less vulnerable, but we did take off the main striker for another defender and they could still have scored another couple. (in addition to the one they already scored) We started playing again for the last 10 minutes, but I'm not sure if that's just because Blackburn let up a bit what with being 4 goals ahead at the time.

So basically we looked great for the first 10 minutes, then absolute bag of bank for 70 minutes and then looked sort of ok for the last 10. Just need the games to only last 20 minutes and we should be alright for the rest of the season. ?