Derby County v Blackburn Rovers

[Comrade 86]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

The players are lead by their manager, else why have one?

Let's just agree to disagree and I can't really find the energy to spend another entire season having this particular discussion. I can see your point to a degree, but it's massively over simplistic in my book and I think we both know where we stand in any case.

[BramcoteRam84]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

The players are lead by their manager, else why have one?

Eventually the manager carries the can. If this continues then Cocu will go I have no doubt. Right now it isn’t good enough. Absolutely no one can dispute that.
 

However everything should be looked at in balance and not based on 3 games into the season and the defeats against the top 6 in last seasons run in. He can’t be judged until he has his team with everyone fit. Another 10 games in if we’re in the bottom 3 would be the right time to make a call. The way football works today, if he doesn’t win any of the next 4 games a call will probably be made as much as I wouldn’t agree with it. But as with any managerial change, someone has to come in who is going to work with THIS squad and make it do better. Otherwise  there is no point 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

He can’t be judged until he has his team with everyone fit.

This is so difficult to call. Which manager gets that? I think he's had a fair crack of the whip. I have NO problem if I am wrong. ?

[IslandExile]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

The players are lead by their manager, else why have one?

Are you saying the players are unprofessional? Have no personal pride? Won't close down an attacker or pass accurately simply because they don't like the manager or his tactics?

I get it. You have no confidence in the manager. You believe that the players have no confidence in the manager but it's one dig after another, seemingly just for the sake of it.

Earlier you even questioned whether the soft transfer embargo prevented us buying our primary targets.

I think you'd win over more people to your viewpoint if you constructed rational, reasoned arguments instead of petty dig, dig, dig.

Anyhow, I'll leave you be now. Clearly, there's no point arguing with someone so determined not to rest until Cocu is gone.

[Ghost of Clough]

Goal 1
Rooney gives the ball away on half way.

Byrne got sucked into the middle leaving his man free. Rooney half-heartedly jogged back, Buchanan doesn’t do enough to get the right side of his man.


Blackburn get the shot away, Wisdom let’s his man get the wrong side of him, Buchanan still hasn’t done enough to get back, and Rooney gave up getting back. Buchanan’s man scores the easiest goal he’ll ever score   (although it’s a close call for an offside)

 

Byrne, Wisdom, Buchanan and Rooney on the naughty step. 

[BramcoteRam84]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

This is so difficult to call. Which manager gets that? I think he's had a fair crack of the whip. I have NO problem if I am wrong. ?

Course you don’t, we won’t be judged on the call we have the easy life of just spouting our opinions. I may think it’s right he gets another 10 games at least based on all the factors I’ve mentioned, but the reality is he needs results and quickly because otherwise whether we agree with it or not a decision will be made.

[Ghost of Clough]

Goal 2
Wisdom’s turn to give the ball away cheaply. 

 

We deal with the initial threat and get numbers back. 

The ball is played to Johnson, some distance out. Sibley needs to quickly shuttle across to close him down. Everyone else looks well positioned. 

 

Sibley doesn’t get across soon enough as Johnson gets his shot away. Marshall seemingly beaten too easy from such a distance, with a lack of extension to reach the ball. 

 

Marshall added to the naughty step. I think it would be harsh on Sibley to add him, and Wisdom’s mistake was ‘dealt with’.

[Ghost of Clough]

Goal 3
Cross about to come in. Everyone looks to be in good positions. 

 

A few more touches leading to the cross and Knight gets back to head away. Rooney has fallen asleep and left his man, leading to Sibley closing him down

 

Knights header isn’t well directed and heads into a dangerous area. Rooney’s still doing his best not to mark anyone, meaning Sibley can’t get anywhere close enough to Johnson. It’s not well placed and an unfortunate deflection off Knight beats Marshall.

Rooney remains on the naughty step. Very harsh to add Knight or Sibley. 

[Ghost of Clough]

Goal 4
Marshall tried to play out from the back by chipping it over to Rooney. It’s too high for Rooney, who tries to head it back to Wisdom rather than knocking it on instead. 

 

It’s not the end of the world... we appear to be well positioned to ensure nothing comes of it. Defenders on the right side of their men, with 7 Derby players in our half to their 6...

 

Only to end up with 3 vs 3 on the edge of our box. Their player has somehow got behind Wisdom resulting in Evans being dragged over, te Wierik reacted too slow and lost his man, Byrne is sat on his hands on halfway, Rooney does his trademark jig back, and it’s the first time in the entire game Knight hasn’t sprinted back.

 

Marshall, Rooney, Wisdom, te Wierik, Byrne and Knight added to the naughty list. 

[Archied]

Yep very clear and predictable that for some any manager of our club who doesn’t want Martin or even just doesn’t do and spend whatever it takes to make him stay no matter whether it’s a club decision ,wage structure decision or percentage of his own spend budget is finished in the eyes of some no matter how they try to dress it up as the same as some who have balanced concerns , 3 losses is manner from heaven and this Martin issue / obsession makes it near impossible to have balanced debate not only on the manager but other players and invades almost every bloody thread ,

mind you it may be a good thing as perhaps without Martin Derby may be the world centre for serial killers

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 minute ago, Archied said:

Yep very clear and predictable that for some any manager of our club who doesn’t want Martin or even just doesn’t do and spend whatever it takes to make him stay no matter whether it’s a club decision ,wage structure decision or percentage of his own spend budget is finished in the eyes of some no matter how they try to dress it up as the same as some who have balanced concerns , 3 losses is manner from heaven and this Martin issue / obsession makes it near impossible to have balanced debate not only on the manager but other players and invades almost every bloody thread ,

mind you it may be a good thing as perhaps without Martin Derby may be the world centre for serial killers

Mate,you are coming across as being utterly obsessed with Martin,almost every post you make mentions him!

Let him go mate,it's time to move on.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, Archied said:

Yep very clear and predictable that for some any manager of our club who doesn’t want Martin or even just doesn’t do and spend whatever it takes to make him stay no matter whether it’s a club decision ,wage structure decision or percentage of his own spend budget is finished in the eyes of some no matter how they try to dress it up as the same as some who have balanced concerns , 3 losses is manner from heaven and this Martin issue / obsession makes it near impossible to have balanced debate not only on the manager but other players and invades almost every bloody thread ,

mind you it may be a good thing as perhaps without Martin Derby may be the world centre for serial killers

Apparently that's Seattle.  Not really relevant, but if your ever on millionaire and it comes up as a bizarre million pound question you may as well know. 

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Archied said:

Yep very clear and predictable that for some any manager of our club who doesn’t want Martin or even just doesn’t do and spend whatever it takes to make him stay no matter whether it’s a club decision ,wage structure decision or percentage of his own spend budget is finished in the eyes of some no matter how they try to dress it up as the same as some who have balanced concerns , 3 losses is manner from heaven and this Martin issue / obsession makes it near impossible to have balanced debate not only on the manager but other players and invades almost every bloody thread ,

mind you it may be a good thing as perhaps without Martin Derby may be the world centre for serial killers

I don't think you've emphasised how important Martin is. But still we'll get a player up front who won't be Martin and we'll bomb. 

FFS you're a bit of a male member aren't you Archied? There's a discussion going on is all.

[nottingram]

https://www.infogol.net/en/matches/result/english-football-league-championship/Derby-vs-blackburn-2020-09-26/76744
 

Interesting one if you are into xG.

Suggests Blackburn scored their two big chances and Derby missed theirs, and largely that all the talk of it “should have been 0-9” were largely very hyperbolic. Clearly we have underlying issues notably in filling gaps in midfield but that there may not be a need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. 

For Johnson’s two pot shots that went in, one being very fortunate, we had Bird’s cleared off the line and Sibley’s header saved, and also created two sitters that fell to Whittaker and Buchanan. The two sitters they created were put away.

 

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, nottingram said:

For Johnson’s two pot shots that went in, one being very fortunate, we had Bird’s cleared off the line and Sibley’s header saved, and also created two sitters that fell to Whittaker and Buchanan. The two sitters they created were put away.

Quote

Blackburn
Possession
Away37%
Shots
Away23
Shots on Target
Away10
Corners
Away4
Fouls
Away11

 

[nottingram]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

Again I think I will need you to clarify what you are getting at.

The point of xG is to measure the quality of a chance. It’s imperfect but adds a bit of context to shots or shots on target which are a bit meaningless. My point was both teams created two big chances, and Blackburn’s were put away. On top of that both teams created a few other fairly low quality chances, and Blackburn or specifically Johnson scored two of them while Bird and Sibley didn’t. 

My point was thus that I feel there has been an over reaction to yesterday’s performance. We have issues most notably with midfielders filling gaps correctly which maybe comes down to a mixture of age, inexperience and, as Cocu has implied, perhaps a lack of desire. Two of yesterday’s goals came from giving the ball away in midfield and not chasing back or organising well enough, and two from midfielders not closing down pot shots. 

[RamNut]

51 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Goal 4
Marshall tried to play out from the back by chipping it over to Rooney. It’s too high for Rooney, who tries to head it back to Wisdom rather than knocking it on instead. 

 

It’s not the end of the world... we appear to be well positioned to ensure nothing comes of it. Defenders on the right side of their men, with 7 Derby players in our half to their 6...

 

Only to end up with 3 vs 3 on the edge of our box. Their player has somehow got behind Wisdom resulting in Evans being dragged over, te Wierik reacted too slow and lost his man, Byrne is sat on his hands on halfway, Rooney does his trademark jig back, and it’s the first time in the entire game Knight hasn’t sprinted back.

 

Marshall, Rooney, Wisdom, te Wierik, Byrne and Knight added to the naughty list. 

how does knight cop for some blame?

this is the problem.....the position of the three defenders in the alternative plan b.

P.s. armstrong wasn’t exactly te Wierik’s man

 

[RoyMac5]

22 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

For Johnson’s two pot shots that went in, one being very fortunate,

...Is what you said. Yet they had 23 shots and 10 on target. Perhaps we were lucky that only Brads shots (and the others) went in?!

[Archied]

30 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Mate,you are coming across as being utterly obsessed with Martin,almost every post you make mentions him!

Let him go mate,it's time to move on.

Would that be replies to quotes ? given the cult fill every repeat every thread with the same Chris Martin guff it’s pretty impossible to reply on anything else ,, the moonies ride again ?

[Gritstone Ram]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Goal 1
Rooney gives the ball away on half way.

Byrne got sucked into the middle leaving his man free. Rooney half-heartedly jogged back, Buchanan doesn’t do enough to get the right side of his man.


Blackburn get the shot away, Wisdom let’s his man get the wrong side of him, Buchanan still hasn’t done enough to get back, and Rooney gave up getting back. Buchanan’s man scores the easiest goal he’ll ever score   (although it’s a close call for an offside)

 

Byrne, Wisdom, Buchanan and Rooney on the naughty step. 

Looking at that line Dolan is off side obviously we would need to see when the ball was played forward.