Derby County v Blackburn Rovers

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

6 minutes ago, DRBee said:

Well it was ironic to hear Cocu in his prematch interview  saying how much we needed a central striker , "someone who can hold the ball up"  and we are nowhere near finding anybody. We played better last season with Martin in the team . That Cocu preferred to get rid is a decision of which he has to take the consequences.

Martin was reputedly the highest earner at the club. Cocu may have wanted to keep him , but we couldn't afford to pay him the kings ransom he was getting those days are gone.  He went elsewhere rather than take what was on the table.  How much the club offer a player in wages is the clubs decision not the managers.  They have a ceiling.

[DavesaRam]

19 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

Got side tracked but meant to add to my last post, did you notice how Cocu was openly questioning the players on the pitch mainly for the complete lack of closing down/pressing yesterday? 
 

First time I’ve seen him do it and he appeared very frustrated for him. Tie that in with the after match interview and I’ve gone from an optimist who can see there’s issues but wanting to give him time to being concerned about his relationship with his squad.

It looks like they aren’t following instructions which is a big concern. Many will condem the manager for that and it’s a fair point, however players need to be professional and carry out the managers instructions to the best of their ability, not ignore him no matter what the issues. Yesterday the players pissed me off as much as the score line!

Very interesting observations, Ramarena. I find the whole thing baffling. After a couple of minutes we bossed the game right up until the first goal, and were the only team looking like doing the business, and moved forwards with purpose and menace. 

The first goal let a striker run into the channel down the left, round the back of the defence and onto the through ball. The first shot should have gone in, actually, but it is worrying just how many times that move works, because we seem to marking a zone somewhere near the corner of the box and leave acres of grass completely open. And despite there being 4 goals, I noticed tht Zones didn't score any of them. So why are we so intent on marking zones? 

We kept being hamstrung by our pedantic build up play - for example, at around 53 minutes Bird collected the ball just outside the area and had an immediate diagonal ball to Buchanan who was heading for the halfway line. So he passed back to the defence (possibly Wisdom) who then put the ball up to Buchanan, but by a midfielder was heading across to close him down. And there is the issue - all game long we struggled to move forwards because Blackburn were in our faces, giving us little time. The number of occasions we were playing it out from the back, but ended up going back to Marshall who wanged it long upfield. Sometimes wanging it long is actually the answer. By contrast virtually none of our players did any pressing at all, at best running in the direction of the man with the ball before slowing down and letting him go anyway. And its not the first time we have given our opponents the freedom of the park - its the Derby way, and we've done it, along with marking the zones under every manager for years. On occasion we have a go at it, and just by coincidence we run the opposition ragged, but a match or so later its gone again. Curiously when we did start to threaten late on in the match it was because we moved the ball forwards quickly. It's not difficult, is it? Or is this why I drive HGVs for a living?

Everyone has it in for Te Wierick, but to me Wisdom was an even bigger problem. Time after time he had the ball at his feet and looked like a rabbit in the headlights, as his speed of thought just isn't there. And poor Jack! We could have had Messi up front and it would have made no difference because even he can't do much without any decent service. I suspect that trading him for Evans was on the lines of shoring things up rather than going gung-ho for an equaliser. But dead-legs Rooney up front? I don't think so. ME thinks Cocu is being forced to play him because of the 32-red deal.

I find it interesting that the boost in performances when Rooney landed was explained as him being able to carry Cocu's ideas out onto the pitch and coach the young lads how to implement them. Since lockdown that hasn't happened, and it has coincided with Rooney appearing to not give a damn. Someone in this thread wondered whether Rooney wasn't bothered, or wasn't fit. Its both - he couldn't be bothered to get fit! And maybe he isn't bothering to shepherd the kids around the grass anymore.

Something has got too give, and at the moment I have no idea what that will be. At least its only £10 per game instead of the £6 parking, 3 pies and 6 pints (between 3 of us) and an entire afternoon or evening. So everything 's good!

[RoyMac5]

3 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

How much the club offer a player in wages is the clubs decision not the managers.  They have a ceiling.

Interesting, I didn't realise the manager doesn't have a say in how to spend his player budget.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

3 hours ago, DRBee said:

Well it was ironic to hear Cocu in his prematch interview  saying how much we needed a central striker , "someone who can hold the ball up"  and we are nowhere near finding anybody. We played better last season with Martin in the team . That Cocu preferred to get rid is a decision of which he has to take the consequences.

Did Cocu choose to get rid? Maybe Martin rejected our offer

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Interesting, I didn't realise the manager doesn't have a say in how to spend his player budget.

If you listened to the interviews he clearly wanted something arranging.  You would get very few clubs willing to commit to a two year deal with an add on for a player with an ongoing colitis condition if there cutting back on wages  He could miss a year of football like Darren Fletcher and if he was on big wages we'd be scuppered. A manager can suggest but the financial reality dictates.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Theres’s Only Wan Chope said:

Did Cocu choose to get rid? Maybe Martin rejected our offer

Groundhog Day, because maybe our offer was derisory?

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Groundhog Day, because maybe our offer was derisory?

So that wouldn't necessarily have been down to Cocu, more club finance people

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Theres’s Only Wan Chope said:

So that wouldn't necessarily have been down to Cocu, more club finance people

Dunno, I asked that on another post. If Cocu has a player budget can he spend it how he wants?

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Dunno, I asked that on another post. If Cocu has a player budget can he spend it how he wants?

Think many managers don't have a lot of say on contract expenditure and budgets these days. 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Theres’s Only Wan Chope said:

Think many managers don't have a lot of say on contract expenditure and budgets these days. 

So down to the recruitment team? I hope they've a good option lined up, I understand strikers aren't cheap?

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So down to the recruitment team? I hope they've a good option lined up, I understand strikers aren't cheap?

Hope so too, we need someone. Interesting how Cocu pulled Marriott off at half time, was Marriott not giving 100 per cent?

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Theres’s Only Wan Chope said:

Interesting how Cocu pulled Marriott off at half time, was Marriott not giving 100 per cent?

Has he ever here? Dunno. But he can't be enjoying playing in a system that does him no favours whatsoever. Square peg round hole syndrome for sure. Why not put Trialist on instead?

[GenBr]

32 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Interesting, I didn't realise the manager doesn't have a say in how to spend his player budget.

16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Dunno, I asked that on another post. If Cocu has a player budget can he spend it how he wants?

We know the club has put a much stricter wage hierarchy in place after we piddled away all our money on big contracts in Mel's early days. If Martin refused to be brought in line with that wage structure then no I don't think Cocu would be able to say much to keep him. Whether you think it is good or bad the club won't be held to ransom by any one player anymore.

Personally a replacement for Martin would have been my number one priority as soon as we knew he wasn't staying, but I am still happy that we stuck to the pre-defined wage structure. We can't sell the stadium a second time!

 

[BramcoteRam84]

Anyone read Conway’s article in the athletic posted about an hour ago. Nailed it as he normally does. Also some good insights on Cocu that should dispel any notion that he isn’t passionate, at one point shouting at the players “It’s too ducking easy” 

[BramcoteRam84]

As for Chrissy Martin - he would have made absolutely no difference yesterday. He would have been as isolated as Marriott was. Midfield balance needs sorting. 

[Richard246]

4 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Martin was reputedly the highest earner at the club. Cocu may have wanted to keep him , but we couldn't afford to pay him the kings ransom he was getting those days are gone.  He went elsewhere rather than take what was on the table.  How much the club offer a player in wages is the clubs decision not the managers.  They have a ceiling.

Cocu said beginning of next week available for weekend.

Hopefully

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Also some good insights on Cocu that should dispel any notion that he isn’t passionate, at one point shouting at the players “It’s too ducking easy” 

He's in charge then.

[Comrade 86]

On 26/09/2020 at 18:56, RoyMac5 said:

The question of are the players not motivated and putting in effort? They don't seem to be. Now answer mine - who is ultimately to blame if that is true?

Principally the players. We do what we are paid to do or we find something else to do. That's how jobs work. If us common folk just downed tools in our day to day jobs, we'd soon be shown the door. Why should it be any different for footballers, especially in light of the wildly excessive sums of money the better players earn. They were executing the plan well enough until the we conceded, after all.

We have a soft centre which Rooney briefly addressed. It's been the case for a long time now if truth be told. Rooney took on the role of managing the players on the pitch. He galvanised the team and did it brilliantly. Since lockdown, we've seen something rather different. Perhaps this is somewhat harsh on him, but it's a noticeable difference nonetheless. The two major changes I'd loo to address as our absolute top priorities are replacing Chris Martin and getting Wazza back in the mindset he had when he first arrived, though I concede neither task is exactly straightforward.

 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Principally the players. We do what we are paid to do or we find something else to do. That's how jobs work.

The players are lead by their manager, else why have one?

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Theres’s Only Wan Chope said:

Did Cocu choose to get rid? Maybe Martin rejected our offer

In fairness to Chris, I think he was adamant that his last contract needed to be 2 years. I don't think it was necessarily (if at all) because he was demanding exorbitant sums of money. I can see his side of things and likewise the club too. Without Covid, I think it would have been a far easier deal to strike, but with the massive loss of revenues the EFL clubs have suffered, it was maybe too much of a risk. Still gutted if I'm honest.