duncanjwitham Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, rammieib said: I may have missed this but can someone tell me how we managed to lose 31m in a year when we had the Vydra sale in there as well? That would suggest given our usual 30m income, plus Vydra sale that we had outgoings in the region of 60-70 million in the Lampard season? Or am I missing something here? The Vydra sale will have done very little to our profit/loss. He was signed for £8m, and would have retained almost all of that value In the books. His sale for £11m would have probably registered no more than £3.5m profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Hughes Hair Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 19 minutes ago, rammieib said: I may have missed this but can someone tell me how we managed to lose 31m in a year when we had the Vydra sale in there as well? That would suggest given our usual 30m income, plus Vydra sale that we had outgoings in the region of 60-70 million in the Lampard season? Or am I missing something here? Expected Residual Values (ERVs). The way we amortise (write down) the value of players over the duration of their contract. In short you can kick the can down the road but where you have a large number of costly assets that end up having no value our approach will bite you in the ass one day. For us that was the 2018/19 season (alledgedly as the actual accounts still haven't been filed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 28 minutes ago, Turk Thrust said: we could try to sign Tim Vine’s Irish shepherd brother, Jeremy O’Vine. Never herd of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 55 minutes ago, rammieib said: I may have missed this but can someone tell me how we managed to lose 31m in a year when we had the Vydra sale in there as well? That would suggest given our usual 30m income, plus Vydra sale that we had outgoings in the region of 60-70 million in the Lampard season? Or am I missing something here? The accounts show ‘paper’ losses rather than the real losses. Despite selling Vydra for the rumoured £11m, very little profit was generated. The 17/18 balance sheet suggests this was the case as well. Early sales in the 18/19 period (July?) show we sold players worth almost £13m for just under £12m - Vydra, Weimann and Jerome? What this doesn’t show is how much we’d earn from the potential add-ons. If we did sell Vydra for £11m, I doubt it would all be upfront. If we were due some after so many games or if Burnley avoid relegation, then it would be a welcome boost in the other accounting periods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 As we know from the clement era we purchased a lot of very average players with huge wages which left us with those players that we couldn’t sell for anything like what we paid generally and they wouldn’t leave anyway due to their very high wages - a real vicious circle but we will come out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Will Hughes Hair said: Expected Residual Values (ERVs). The way we amortise (write down) the value of players over the duration of their contract. In short you can kick the can down the road but where you have a large number of costly assets that end up having no value our approach will bite you in the ass one day. For us that was the 2018/19 season (alledgedly as the actual accounts still haven't been filed). 19/20 is the period where we really suffered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 3 hours ago, duncanjwitham said: The Vydra sale will have done very little to our profit/loss. He was signed for £8m, and would have retained almost all of that value In the books. His sale for £11m would have probably registered no more than £3.5m profit. Yes but despite our residual depreciation, he must have given us 5-7M profit in the accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: The accounts show ‘paper’ losses rather than the real losses. Despite selling Vydra for the rumoured £11m, very little profit was generated. The 17/18 balance sheet suggests this was the case as well. Early sales in the 18/19 period (July?) show we sold players worth almost £13m for just under £12m - Vydra, Weimann and Jerome? What this doesn’t show is how much we’d earn from the potential add-ons. If we did sell Vydra for £11m, I doubt it would all be upfront. If we were due some after so many games or if Burnley avoid relegation, then it would be a welcome boost in the other accounting periods. Appreciate we have suffered through this process but we extended contracts and so on. I’m still shocked for the loss to be that high. Guess the facts will come out soon enough on the ‘how’ and indeed it leaves the 19/20 year in a tricky position - a year that has already finished so can’t do anything now AND a Bielik purchase which would have been circa 2m in the accounts. I think we have since moved to a straight line depreciation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 48 minutes ago, rammieib said: Appreciate we have suffered through this process but we extended contracts and so on. I’m still shocked for the loss to be that high. Guess the facts will come out soon enough on the ‘how’ and indeed it leaves the 19/20 year in a tricky position - a year that has already finished so can’t do anything now AND a Bielik purchase which would have been circa 2m in the accounts. I think we have since moved to a straight line depreciation? I would be happier with straight line the other method is gung ho and not prudent. If you start off with this method you end up having to sell your own stadium to your chairman to remain at least competitive. The gamble didn’t work and we have sold the family silver regrettably. The hope is the kids come good and start producing sales income or performances to get us promoted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 30 minutes ago, Spanish said: I would be happier with straight line the other method is gung ho and not prudent. If you start off with this method you end up having to sell your own stadium to your chairman to remain at least competitive. The gamble didn’t work and we have sold the family silver regrettably. The hope is the kids come good and start producing sales income or performances to get us promoted Spot on. Can sort of understand Mr Morris paying out big transfer fees to try and achieve promotion. Looking at the sort of signings Leeds Utd are making, £20m plus for players doesn't seem a problem with the PL windfall. Unfortunately we didn't make it, too many of our signings were overpriced underachievers and we didn't have a manager to get us over the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 On 30/08/2020 at 10:28, uttoxram75 said: flock off Shear nonsense. We will not have wool pulled over our eyes. Gone for a dip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab a dab doo Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Are waiting for more tribunal news or is that it for time being ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, Rab a dab doo said: Are waiting for more tribunal news or is that it for time being ? We're yet to find out if the EFL are going to appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab a dab doo Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Well they certainly don't appeal to me ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 16 hours ago, richinspain said: We're yet to find out if the EFL are going to appeal. Was the deadline for that 14 days from the initial decision being made? If so unless I have mixed my dates up they have 7 days left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab a dab doo Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 They'll try and make us sweat and leave it right up until the last day. That's if in fact they 'truly' believe they have 'any grounds' whatsoever to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Rab a dab doo said: They'll try and make us sweat and leave it right up until the last day. That's if in fact they 'truly' believe they have 'any grounds' whatsoever to do so. They should've believed Mr Messenger! And they should've been more concerned with dictionary definition of systematic than actual accounting practice! Seriously though, if we'd got it dismissed on a technicality I'd be worried but as it is,I don't think they'll get anywhere. The report also makes the look like chumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 After further reading on the case on The Athletic, I was amazed to find this little nugget buried in the report. You can really see the effects of this transfer policy from 2015 onwards, when we signed exciting young players like Johnson, Anya, Butterfield, Camara and Blackman and there was no possible way their value could have diminished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 On 26/08/2020 at 08:30, David said: Does Mel Morris still have questions to answer from some fans? Just checking. I was out drinking in Lincoln for a mates birthday when the news dropped, couldn’t be happier not just for the club, but for him personally. He’s taken some stick in this thread before a guilty verdict from an independent tribunal was heard, bizarre when you stop to think what he has done for this club. Thank you Mel, some of us never doubted you and are greatly appreciative of your ownership and how you have conducted yourself not just through this farce of an investigation but throughout your tenure. Oh and to the incompetent EFL, Gibson, Kieran Maguire, wally from Barnsley, Leeds, Forest, Bristol City and QPR fans? Struggling a bit with this. Delighted that the club’s accounting has been proven to be sound, and that the EFL and Gibson at Boro look a complete bunch of Gibson’s. However, in my book it doesn’t merit Mel Morris getting such a resounding three cheers and a huge pat on the back. I tip my hat to Morris for investing so heavily in the club, and in particular for significantly raising the bar, and therefore profile, of the Academy. However, look at our success. Since 2014 the quality of our football team has been massively eroded at huge expense on dross, needing some clever accounting and a large loan to get us out of the doodah. The ground is no longer owned by the football club. If this was Forest or Leeds there rightly would be much merriment at the incompetence of the guy at the top. In fact didn’t we have a thread a few years back about Fawaz’s train set. Poor top down decision making has brought us to this position. The constant change of team management, and player acquisition, pointed for a long time to the fact that there was no clear strategy - the Derby Way my arse. Free rein being given to Rush and a range of managers of different tactical style; attack, counter attack, attack, defend, baalock, attack, poo house, pass quickly, pass slowly, ........ We even managed to sell Will Hughes for proverbial peanuts (probably again to make our accounts look ok at the time). Hope for Morris, indeed all of us, that the next few years will be better, and we can thank him for his stewardship. But currently if we are to praise anyone for their executive tenure at the club, it seems to me Stephen Pearce might be more deserving of a doffed cap. Since stepping up from Rush he seems to have done a sterling job trying to make the figures stack-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lagavulinram Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 i can understand what you are saying. isnt all football having to be creative with finances? how many clubs are going bust or on the verge? i think mel is doing a stella job. given what he has. Derby has nearly always trying to run a big club on cornershop money. the constant changing of managers was extremely annoying. How can we survive? as a club preparing to go to the premiership? if we couldnt hold on to a manager, what did we expect?. things are different now, we seem to have some management stability. we`ve had a couple of nightmares. we`ve lost some players and hopefully got a few more coming in soon. but thats business as usual. i just wouldnt mind a good season, no drama, no crashes, no media crap, just a good solid performance. we tend to switch off and let in late goals. but that was changing, we started stealing games. tier 2 football is dying. Rooney was a revelation. man, that guy works hard. hes a grafter. lets just hope that the next Derby era starts now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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