Tribunal Update

[i-Ram]

3 hours ago, lagavulinram said:

i can understand what you are saying. isnt all football having to be creative with finances?

how many clubs are going bust or on the verge? i think mel is doing a stella job. given what he has. Derby has nearly always trying to run a big club on cornershop money. the constant changing of managers was extremely annoying. How can we survive? as a club preparing to go to the premiership? if we couldnt hold on to a manager, what did we expect?. things are different now, we seem to have some management stability. we`ve had a couple of nightmares. we`ve lost some players and hopefully got a few more coming in soon. but thats business as usual. 

i just wouldnt mind a good season, no drama, no crashes, no media crap, just a good solid performance. we tend to switch off and let in late goals. but that was changing, we started stealing games. 

tier 2 football is dying. 

Rooney was a revelation. man, that guy works hard. hes a grafter. 

lets just hope that the next Derby era starts now. 

Thanks for your reply.  

To be fair to Morris, things do appear to be looking different. It seems on face value that he has learnt some lessons over his 6 year tenure, and his appointments of Lampard and Cocu have been good. I also think the recruitment of Rooney will prove astute too if the figures do indeed work; not necessarily on the field this year but in helping our crop of youngsters to develop, work hard, and learn from a guy who eats, drinks and sleeps football. Cocu and his other coaches also seem well equipped to build a fully inclusive club structure, and I am excited by him hopefully being able to get 2 or 3 attacking players in who suit his requirements. Not expecting promotion this year, but it would be nice to be properly competitive for a play-off place. 

I would also add I do hope we get promotion whilst Morris is at the helm (hopefully in the next 2 years). Notwithstanding my viewpoint that his tenure to date has been underwhelming, he does deserve that for the time and money he has thrown at his project.

[lagavulinram]

I hope mel sees fruit soon. The leagues are un predictable, so not counting chickens and eggs. There are some decent clubs there. We fall a sleep, on the pitch and some decisions. We went through a slump an a half. Cocu did a decent job, but he must have learned a few things. What bugs me watching games, is if a player is underperforming no decision is being made to change that. Its clear as day. under using or not using players is another one. we have history in making the same mistakes.

Im actually upbeat about next season. Which is unusual for me. Just need a couple of strikers, on for free, paid in room and board. And we are set.

[RamNut]

16 minutes ago, lagavulinram said:

I hope mel sees fruit soon.

[Carl Sagan]

@i-RamDidn't quote your thoughtful long post due to it being long. Lots of merit in what you say. My take is I agreed with most of the decisions at the time. It seemed a coup to bring in Clement, Pearson, Rowett (and also Lampard, Cocu, Rooney), even though it meant a change of style. I applaud Mel for always backing his managers and bringing in the players they wanted, even if disastrous signings.

It's a shame there are no guarantees in football and fans such as Mel who have contributed haven't had their rewards. I maintain if George Thorne hadnt been injured in the friendly against Shaktar, we'd have walked the league. And the opening day injuries to Hughes and Bryson led to catastrophic panicked decisions.

[G STAR RAM]

Over 2 weeks since the tribunal decision and I notice still no accounts filed at Companies House.

Should have been filed 5 months ago although there was a 3 month extension granted due to coronavirus. 

[Spanish]

24 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Over 2 weeks since the tribunal decision and I notice still no accounts filed at Companies House.

Should have been filed 5 months ago although there was a 3 month extension granted due to coronavirus. 

14 days on Monday I think depending when during Monday the report was delivered.  Still surprising that the accounts have not been filed.  Could be the auditors

[cannable]

16 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

@i-RamDidn't quote your thoughtful long post due to it being long. Lots of merit in what you say. My take is I agreed with most of the decisions at the time. It seemed a coup to bring in Clement, Pearson, Rowett (and also Lampard, Cocu, Rooney), even though it meant a change of style. I applaud Mel for always backing his managers and bringing in the players they wanted, even if disastrous signings.

It's a shame there are no guarantees in football and fans such as Mel who have contributed haven't had their rewards. I maintain if George Thorne hadnt been injured in the friendly against Shaktar, we'd have walked the league. And the opening day injuries to Hughes and Bryson led to catastrophic panicked decisions.

Appointing a chain of Clement, Wassall, Pearson, McClaren and Rowett and giving them free reign in the transfer market is what’s left us in such a mess. You can’t applaud catastrophic and constant flip-flapping on appointments just because they layman sees it as a coup. 

And even then, did he really back them? Undoubtedly in the transfer market but time wise? They all had enough time to start buying and selling to fund their systems without getting to see it through. 

If you’re going to eventually replace Clement with Pearson then you just don’t sack the former. 

Once Pearson has sold Martin and Jeff whilst bringing in Vydra, Wilson and Anya you have to give him time. To be honest the warning signs were there that pre-season and I’d have binned him off then. 

Once McClaren has tied Martin to a £30,000 a week deal and signed Nugent you give him the season after. 

To then bring Rowett in rendered 16/17 pointless and you may as well have stuck with Pearson. 

When Mel sacked Clement he underlined a plan for the whole club. Other than the academy baring fruits the only sign of said plan was replacing Lampard by Cocu. 

[BramcoteRam84]

On 03/09/2020 at 23:59, i-Ram said:

Struggling a bit with this. Delighted that the club’s accounting has been proven to be sound, and that the EFL and Gibson at Boro look a complete bunch of Gibson’s. However, in my book it doesn’t merit Mel Morris getting such a resounding three cheers and a huge pat on the back.

I tip my hat to Morris for investing so heavily in the club, and in particular for significantly raising the bar, and therefore profile, of the Academy. However, look at our success. Since 2014 the quality of our football team has been massively eroded at huge expense on dross, needing some clever accounting and a large loan to get us out of the doodah. The ground is no longer owned by the football club. If this was Forest or Leeds there rightly would be much merriment at the incompetence of the guy at the top. In fact didn’t we have a thread a few years back about Fawaz’s train set.

Poor top down decision making has brought us to this position. The constant change of team management, and player acquisition, pointed for a long time to the fact that there was no clear strategy - the Derby Way my arse.  Free rein being given to Rush and a range of managers of different tactical style; attack, counter attack, attack, defend, baalock, attack, poo house, pass quickly, pass slowly, ........  We even managed to sell Will Hughes for proverbial peanuts (probably again to make our accounts look ok at the time).

Hope for Morris, indeed all of us, that the next few years will be better, and we can thank him for his stewardship. But currently if we are to praise anyone for their executive tenure at the club, it seems to me Stephen Pearce might be more deserving of a doffed cap. Since stepping up from Rush he seems to have done a sterling job trying to make the figures stack-up.

A lot of valid points. I’ve been a huge critic of Mel especially early in his tenure. But I think a lot of what you’re referring to is big mistakes Mel made in the first couple of years and due to the way P&S works we’re still paying for it now. I think in the past few seasons he’s been less trigger happy with managers (managers have done well and then left as opposed to being sacked) and he now has a clear vision with 50% of the first team coming from the academy, and furthermore he attracted a top manager to the club who fits perfectly with that vision and demonstrated success by bringing through academy players at PSV. This vision eventually will get us to sustainability. 
 

Agree on Stephen Pearce. Mr Rush clearly duped Mel and probably most of us who post on here.

[RandomAccessMemory]

He's at it again. ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8699443/AHEAD-GAME-Watford-players-speculating-Vladimir-Ivics-future.html

Quote

Derby break embargo

Derby's relationship with the Football League has become so toxic in the light of their spending charge that the club deliberately published the written reasons behind the independent panel's decision to clear them last week an hour before the embargo time that the two parties had mutually agreed.

The EFL have until Tuesday to lodge an appeal against the panel's verdict that Derby's sale of Pride Park for £80million and amortisation procedures did not constitute a breach of profit and sustainability rules.

 

[RamNut]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Over 2 weeks since the tribunal decision and I notice still no accounts filed at Companies House.

Should have been filed 5 months ago although there was a 3 month extension granted due to coronavirus. 

But presumably we need the outcome on the amortisation issue settled before we can file the accounts?

[Millenniumram]

Is Matt Hughes a pseudonym for Steve Gibson

[G STAR RAM]

37 minutes ago, RamNut said:

But presumably we need the outcome on the amortisation issue settled before we can file the accounts?

Why?

It is up for our auditors to decide if we are complying with accounting standards, not the EFL.

[plymouthram]

31 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Is Matt Hughes a pseudonym for Steve Gibson

Even in today's Daily Mail he's still having a go at Derby. This journalist has a big big hate for the Rams. No I did'nt buy the Tory rag newspaper, unfortunately my mother-in law gets it.

[Jimbo Ram]

4 minutes ago, plymouthram said:

Even in today's Daily Mail he's still having a go at Derby. This journalist has a big big hate for the Rams. No I did'nt buy the Tory rag newspaper, unfortunately my mother-in law gets it.

I think most mother in laws of an older generation get the Fail unfortunately ☹️

[RamNut]

12 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Why?

It is up for our auditors to decide if we are complying with accounting standards, not the EFL.

You tell me then.

[Tamworthram]

7 hours ago, RamNut said:

You tell me then.

I thought that the tribunal found that there was nothing wrong with our actual amortisation policy, the club just failed to disclose it fully. Therefore, is there an issue that needs to be resolved other than a few more words explaining the method used?

[RamNut]

Just now, Tamworthram said:

I thought that the tribunal found that there was nothing wrong with our actual amortisation policy, the club just failed to disclose it fully. Therefore, is there an issue that needs to be resolved other than a few more words explaining the method used?

Yes. And waiting for that decision could surely delay the posting of accounts?
We are still to find out if the EFL will appeal too.

one thing that the recent independent inquiries into both Sheff Wed and Derby’s accounts has shown, is that the accountants and auditors opinions are indeed subject to scrutiny. Their word is not final as far as ffp goes. 

[Tamworthram]

Just now, RamNut said:

Yes. And waiting for that decision could surely delay the posting of accounts?
We are still to find out if the EFL will appeal too.

one thing that the recent independent inquiries into both Sheff Wed and Derby’s accounts has shown, is that the accountants and auditors opinions are indeed subject to scrutiny. Their word is not final as far as ffp goes. 

Sorry, I’m still confused. What decision other than what actual words to add which, given our policy is all out in the open now, shouldn’t really be that difficult. 
 

I agree about the appeal though. As it stands, it feels like just a simple fix (a few extra words added) but if the EFL appeal against our policy and win (I really don’t see how that can happen) it could be a different story.

[RadioactiveWaste]

On 05/09/2020 at 11:27, Jimbo Ram said:

I think most mother in laws of an older generation get the Fail unfortunately ☹️

Funny story, during the lockdown we were doing shopping for an old lady who was shielding, every week, a copy of the daily heil.....

I grumbled about it one week...my better half firmly told me the reason "she puts it in her cats litter tray, she worked for the herald for years and cannot stand the daily mail"

[cheron85]

On 06/09/2020 at 08:01, Tamworthram said:

Sorry, I’m still confused. What decision other than what actual words to add which, given our policy is all out in the open now, shouldn’t really be that difficult. 

If they had found us guilty we would have had to change the way we did the accounts completely so we wouldn't have been able to submit any new ones until that decision was made

After the decision came out I'm pretty sure the club said they would switch back to straight line amortisation - Essentially to appease the EFL and the mardy Gibsons who had made the original complaint - So again, even though we were well within our rights to keep on going as we were, the accounts would have been delayed whilst everything was redone