Tribunal Update

[Shipley Ram 722]

From Percy

ttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/07/10/exclusive-Derby-countys-legal-dispute-english-football-league/

[Shipley Ram 722]

Now I look not much of a story without a subscriptiopn, but I like the picture.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Shipley Ram

[RoyMac5 13,276]

How much of an update if an opening para is

"Morris has always maintained that the sale of fixed assets was previously allowed in the rules and Derby will "strongly contest" the charge.

Yet Derby could face sanctions if found guilty by an independent disciplinary commission, with the punishment ranging from a points deduction to a fine or transfer embargo..."

We know that. 

Is there anything new?

[David 47,273]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Is there anything new?

Hearing starts Monday

[therealhantsram 2,302]

1 minute ago, David said:

Hearing starts Monday

Still no verdict in the Sheff Wed case... So don't expect anything here for at least 2 weeks. 

Dont you think it would be good though if there were some transparency... If the cases were heard in the open so that there was more trust in the EFL and the process? 

All the secrecy does no one any favours. 

[Topram 3,065]

Good news this, we’d rather surely get a points deduction this season than start with one (if we do get one) we’d also rather know what’s happening than it keep dragging out

[jono 9,369]

23 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

How much of an update if an opening para is

"Morris has always maintained that the sale of fixed assets was previously allowed in the rules and Derby will "strongly contest" the charge.

Yet Derby could face sanctions if found guilty by an independent disciplinary commission, with the punishment ranging from a points deduction to a fine or transfer embargo..."

We know that. 

Is there anything new?

I doubt it Roy, just speculation for the sake of the article which will lead to the follow on when the hearing gets going.

i get the feeling that it’s going to be very interesting. My reading of this is that Derby “might” have been guilty of some transgression but only because rules of policies were placed after the event which makes me feel as if our case is very strong. In the end we have a contract with the EFL to abide by the rules. It’s recognised in law via so many precedents that you can’t add terms after the contract has been agreed. The whole car park regs thing .. the conditions have to be at the entrance, not after you bought your ticket. 

[RadioactiveWaste 12,710]

1 minute ago, jono said:

I doubt it Roy, just speculation for the sake of the article which will lead to the follow on when the hearing gets going.

i get the feeling that it’s going to be very interesting. My reading of this is that Derby “might” have been guilty of some transgression but only because rules of policies were placed after the event which makes me feel as if our case is very strong. In the end we have a contract with the EFL to abide by the rules. It’s recognised in law via so many precedents that you can’t add terms after the contract has been agreed. The whole car park regs thing .. the conditions have to be at the entrance, not after you bought your ticket. 

I think there's also a lot hanging on our reliance on EFL stating that were happy for us to do what we did.

Which even if the panel finds us guilty as charged leaves open the claim about giving us the go ahead when they shouldn't have, which has damaged us - I'm sure Wednesday will make the same case.

[B4ev6is 10,969]

Well we got sign and sealed by efl confirming it was fine if I was one of lawers for mel I be wracking efl with it. To the point were case gets dismissed.

[RoyMac5 13,276]

15 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I think there's also a lot hanging on our reliance on EFL stating that were happy for us to do what we did.

Which even if the panel finds us guilty as charged leaves open the claim about giving us the go ahead when they shouldn't have, which has damaged us - I'm sure Wednesday will make the same case.

They can find us as guilty as they like as long as they make no punishment as it was their fault!

[Wolfie20 7,852]

20 minutes ago, Topram said:

Good news this, we’d rather surely get a points deduction this season than start with one (if we do get one) we’d also rather know what’s happening than it keep dragging out

My understanding (which could be completely wrong) is that any points deduction will ONLY apply to this season if the offending club finishes in one of the relegation places. If they end up outside one of those positions then the points penalty will be carried forward into the next season.

If we are found guilty and are not successful with any subsequent appeal(s) it will put a huge dampener on next season.

[Wolfie20 7,852]

Who appoints the 'independant' commission?

............now let me guess.

[JfR 3,070]

Strange that they've got our's lined up before they've announced what's happening with Wednesday

[Sith Happens]

15 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

My understanding (which could be completely wrong) is that any points deduction will ONLY apply to this season if the offending club finishes in one of the relegation places. If they end up outside one of those positions then the points penalty will be carried forward into the next season.

If we are found guilty and are not successful with any subsequent appeal(s) it will put a huge dampener on next season.

Isnt it if the point deduction makes a significant difference? So as you say if it drops you into the relegation zone, but i would have thought also if you finish in the top 2/play offs it would also get deducted.

But anywhere in between they would leave it as they clearly want to have the most impact they can.

I would expect if we make the play offs they will try and rush through the decision.

[richinspain 5,102]

17 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

My understanding (which could be completely wrong) is that any points deduction will ONLY apply to this season if the offending club finishes in one of the relegation places. If they end up outside one of those positions then the points penalty will be carried forward into the next season.

If we are found guilty and are not successful with any subsequent appeal(s) it will put a huge dampener on next season.

In the "Wigan goes into administration" thread @G STAR RAM said that it is the other way around. If you finish outside the relegation zone then the points deduction is the same season, thus possibly pushing you into it. If however you are in the relegation zone then the deduction is passed over to the following season. That seems to make more sense to me. Where is the punishment if you get relegated naturally and they take more points off you?

[Rev 23,074]

4 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Isnt it if the point deduction makes a significant difference? So as you say if it drops you into the relegation zone, but i would have thought also if you finish in the top 2/play offs it would also get deducted.

But anywhere in between they would leave it as they clearly want to have the most impact they can.

I would expect if we make the play offs they will try and rush through the decision.

I'm pretty sure the point deduction is only carried forward to next season if you're relegated on merit. Otherwise it's applied this season, regardless of where you finish and how it impacts the final standings.

[Ghost of Clough 9,750]

22 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

My understanding (which could be completely wrong) is that any points deduction will ONLY apply to this season if the offending club finishes in one of the relegation places. If they end up outside one of those positions then the points penalty will be carried forward into the next season.

If we are found guilty and are not successful with any subsequent appeal(s) it will put a huge dampener on next season.

My understanding is if a club goes into administration and the club finishes in the bottom 3 they get the points deducted the following season. If they have enough points at the end of the season to avoid the bottom 3, they get the points deducted in that (the current) season. Hence, Wigan still have all of their points.
However, for P&S penalties, the points are deducted as soon as the verdict is reached. See Birmingham last season when they had the points taken away straight away.

[Brammie Steve 3,547]

Why don't they wait until we've won the playoff final then they can REALLY enjoy the outcome.

Not that I would suggest that the EFL has any antipathy to any club in this division.

You may think that. I could not possibly comment.

[StarterForTen 550]

Oh, this could get very messy! The play-offs start on July 25th/26th, so less than two weeks after this hearing is reported to start.

So if Derby are found guilty and given a points deduction and it is that deduction that stops the team finishing in the top six then the Club are bound to appeal. How do you hold a hearing, give a judgement, allow time to review, appeal the result, hold an appeal and give an appeal ruling in less than a fortnight?

If the play-offs went on without Derby, who other than the points penalty would have been part of them, then surely the club would seek an injunction?

Or, if the playoffs continue without them and Derby later win the appeal, the damages claim to the EFL will literally bankrupt the league. They haven't got a pot to wee in as it is.

[Mucker1884 9,772]

42 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Who appoints the 'independant' commission?

............now let me guess.

I think... off the top of my head... 😉

90.3 A Disciplinary Commission shall consist of:

90.3.1 a chairperson who shall be either:

(a) a qualified solicitor or barrister; or

(b) a ‘member’ or ‘fellow’ of the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators,

in either case with at least 5 years post-qualification experience who shall be appointed independently by the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators (or such other body as the Board may from time to time determine); and

90.3.2 two suitably qualified side members one of whom shall be selected by the Claimant and the other (subject to Regulation 90.4), by the Respondent,

PROVIDED ALWAYS that:

(a) the side members must be independent of the parties and able to render an impartial decision;

(b) the parties may agree that the Disciplinary Commission be constituted by the Chairman sitting alone; and

(c) a ‘suitably qualified’ side member (if not a solicitor or barrister of at least five years post-qualification experience, shall be a person who is independent of the party appointing them, capable of rendering an impartial decision and not otherwise subject to a Disqualifying Condition (as defined in Appendix 3).

 

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-8---offences-inquiries-commissions-disputes-and-appeals/