Ambitious Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 We've got a thread on the play-offs, but considering our current plight just how mindful should we be of actually being in League One next season? The concerning aspect is that we don't know how many points we are likely to be deducted. I mean, it's always plausible that we beat the charge and get away scot free, but the realist in me knows that the league don't issue a charge without following it through. The repercussions for them would be huge, especially if it transpires that we would've been relegated had we received the charge. I guess either way the EFL are looking down the barrel of a nasty legal case. Imagine if Boro get relegated at our expense, 8 points behind us in the league having us escape a point deduction? Gibson would combust! Let's consider a nine point deduction as the best case scenario. The rules state up to 21 points, but I'd imagine that a punishment inline with Birmingham when they broke the rules would seem the most likely from the outside looking in. I can't see it being any less, only more, so it does seem our best case SHOULD we be fond guilty, of course. If it was to be imposed tonight that would leave us 22nd on 36 point. A point behind both Wigan and Boro on 37. A couple of points ahead of Barnsley on 34 who have won their last three games including a 3-0 win over Fulham. We have a tough schedule until the end of the season - Home: Blackburn, Reading, Forest, Brentford, Leeds. Away: Wednesday, Millwall, Preston, West Brom, Cardiff, Birmingham. We only have Reading and Birmingham left to play outside the top half. Reading the only team left to play that are below us in the league on merit and even they only occupy the position directly below us. It's almost a perfect storm. The question, I guess I'm asking myself, is when should we consider it as a realistic option? It's difficult as we don't exactly know what punishment we're facing as the club continue to peddle the line that we've done nothing wrong. I just don't realistically see the league issuing a punishment and then not acting on it, especially when one of the main aggressors - Gibson - could do with us taking a point deduction to save his own under-performing team. It's a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 We won’t get relegated, won’t even be close to It. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimeram Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 You sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yani P Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 I can't see us getting a points deduction at all if you believe the bullish response from Derby.. Don't forget we are even challenging the legality of the charge itself before we even get to how we conducted ourselves.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JfR Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 It might be that the best hope we have, other than that we prove ourselves to have not done anything wrong, is that the EFL take so long with this that any punishment does not affect us this season. I'm starting to feel like that would be the better option. If this were last season, we'd have only needed two more wins to secure probable safety, but this season looks like one where there might be a decent chance of at least one team going down with a points total in the high 40s if not in the 50s, so even a comfortably midtable finish might not see us stay up if we were to get a points deduction this season, even a relatively minor one. It seems like a really tough season to get a points deduction in if we were to get one. Sheffield Wednesday were charged nearly two months before we were, and they have yet to receive a punishment, though, and I can't see our case being wrapped up before that is, so we might be fortunate. I should imagine that the club will be fighting the charge on two fronts: Firstly to directly challenge the charge and to prove that we have done nothing wrong or that the EFL are at fault for any wrongdoing we have committed and therefore cannot punish us for following their inaccurate advice on following their own rules. Secondly, they will probably have a contingency plan in place so that if we are unable to get the charges against us dropped, that we would still attempt to get the punishment reduced to one that is as minimally detrimental to the club as possible, by attempting to elongate and frustrate the process as much as possible so that any punishments do not take place in the immediate future, and to attempt to reduce the punishment to as little as possible. I would imagine that this case will drag on for as long as we're willing to drag it on for, seeing as the consequences of being relegated would likely hurt us more than any legal battle would. Likewise, I can't imagine the EFL would want a lengthy legal battle if they can avoid it. On a side note, I just had a check on the website of Nick De Marco, the QC who is representing us in the hearing. He has a section where he lists his experiences in cases he has been involved in. Previously it listed him as having an ongoing involvement as a representative for Sheffield Wednesday in their EFL case. This changed a few weeks back to a paragraph in the past tense, suggesting either the case had finished or his involvement in it had ceased, but now that case has been removed entirely. Does anyone know what's up with that? I doubt it's merely that they lost the case as he has other cases that did not fall in his favour still posted on there, so it all seems a bit mysterious. Our's is still listed and still listed as ongoing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 It’s surely won’t be concluded with a punishment this season. If it was then sheff we’d, Derby and Birmingham could all be plunged into the relegation zone by the EFL. That would be unthinkable. Time is running out for a hearing and an appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Until its resolved and closed the threat simply gets deferred imo. A big points deduction would have the potential to derail any season, not just this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean (hick) Saunders Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 I have a feeling they will want to act the “billy big balls” but without causing a fundamental issue like a relegation. By waiting until they see what points Rams and Owls likely to get and levelling a fine of points that costs league position only, they can get away with the fine acting this season and it die down quickly. They will be hoping that we have a big gap to relegation and Owls miss out on playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepyuppy Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Couldn’t care less if we got relegated - been there done that - actually really enjoyed it. It impresses the siege mentality within the club, fans and City. Look at the clubs who have been relegated to 3rd Tier and bounced back and are now in Premiership- bed some have had unbelievable buy outs and funding like Man City, but the others haven't - Sheffield Utd, Wolves, Burnley, Southampton, Palace, Watford, Norwich. Not he end of the world !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimsbyRam Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, Keepyuppy said: Couldn’t care less if we got relegated - been there done that - actually really enjoyed it. It impresses the siege mentality within the club, fans and City. Look at the clubs who have been relegated to 3rd Tier and bounced back and are now in Premiership- bed some have had unbelievable buy outs and funding like Man City, but the others haven't - Sheffield Utd, Wolves, Burnley, Southampton, Palace, Watford, Norwich. Not he end of the world !!! For everyone of them there is a Bradford, Coventry, Bolton or Pompey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealhantsram Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 6 hours ago, Yani P said: I can't see us getting a points deduction at all if you believe the bullish response from Derby.. Don't forget we are even challenging the legality of the charge itself before we even get to how we conducted ourselves.. Exactly. The only way I can see a points deduction is of the EFL have a smoking gun... Such as an email from DCFC to the stadium valuers telling them to add 20m to their valuation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 I'm more concerned by this epidemic being spread by those who drink piss-weak lager to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihangel Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 You have an ironic username. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Daly Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 17 minutes ago, GrimsbyRam said: For everyone of them there is a Bradford, Coventry, Bolton or Pompey. Coventry, Bolton and Pompey had and have humongous debts, no rich owner and very few assets. We are very different to them. Bradford are a historically lower division club in any case. I agree with other posters. I was there when played under division 3 under Cox. Great times because we were always looking forward. We would bounce back from there quickly and enjoy it while we did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Our EFL hearing isn't until next month. Following the worst case scenario of a points deduction, we'd surely go to the 'Court of Arbitration for Sport'. It would take at the very minimum a month to have a hearing with them, thus pushing an possible points deduction in out next season. In my opinion, we'd have to be found guilty of selling the stadium for an over-inflated value AND have used an incorrect amortisation policy to fail the period ending in 2018 - we are only being charged for the one period. If we are found guilty on both counts, we appear to only be a couple of £m over budget, so only a coupel of points deducted for failing P&S. I can't see this being the case without the blame lying with the EFL due to approving both issues at various stages, and in turn no points deduction for failing P&S. However, there is a possible points deduction of up to for 'misleading' the EFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 We’re going to need to improve on defending set pieces if we’re going into League 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 8 hours ago, Ambitious said: We've got a thread on the play-offs, but considering our current plight just how mindful should we be of actually being in League One next season? The concerning aspect is that we don't know how many points we are likely to be deducted. I mean, it's always plausible that we beat the charge and get away scot free, but the realist in me knows that the league don't issue a charge without following it through. The repercussions for them would be huge, especially if it transpires that we would've been relegated had we received the charge. I guess either way the EFL are looking down the barrel of a nasty legal case. Imagine if Boro get relegated at our expense, 8 points behind us in the league having us escape a point deduction? Gibson would combust! Let's consider a nine point deduction as the best case scenario. The rules state up to 21 points, but I'd imagine that a punishment inline with Birmingham when they broke the rules would seem the most likely from the outside looking in. I can't see it being any less, only more, so it does seem our best case SHOULD we be fond guilty, of course. If it was to be imposed tonight that would leave us 22nd on 36 point. A point behind both Wigan and Boro on 37. A couple of points ahead of Barnsley on 34 who have won their last three games including a 3-0 win over Fulham. We have a tough schedule until the end of the season - Home: Blackburn, Reading, Forest, Brentford, Leeds. Away: Wednesday, Millwall, Preston, West Brom, Cardiff, Birmingham. We only have Reading and Birmingham left to play outside the top half. Reading the only team left to play that are below us in the league on merit and even they only occupy the position directly below us. It's almost a perfect storm. The question, I guess I'm asking myself, is when should we consider it as a realistic option? It's difficult as we don't exactly know what punishment we're facing as the club continue to peddle the line that we've done nothing wrong. I just don't realistically see the league issuing a punishment and then not acting on it, especially when one of the main aggressors - Gibson - could do with us taking a point deduction to save his own under-performing team. It's a mess. Despite others admirable optimism I think it’s a threat that shouldn’t be ignored even without a points deduction. The gap could be down to 5 points after this weekend although surely Wigan can’t win at West Brom can they? Being ultra negative it’s difficult to see much beyond a dozen points from our remaining games but that should be enough. Realistically, I reckon there won’t be any points deduction this season and we’ll finish roughly as far from the relegation zone as we are now: 7 or 8 points clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Not sure why anyone keeps on comparing our case to Birmingham? They broke the rules and, having been made aware of this, continued to break the rules. As far as I am aware we have not even breached any written rules. It appears the EFL are trying to change the rules and retrospectively say we breached them. For their situation to be comparative to ours they would have to have received written dispensation from the EFL to continue with their spending. Comparing apples with pears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo jones Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 if a points deduction does come, I don’t see it being sorted out until next season, unless the club and the efl get round the table and “agree” one that won’t see us relegated this season, and everyone moves on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 10 hours ago, Ambitious said: We've got a thread on the play-offs, but considering our current plight just how mindful should we be of actually being in League One next season? The concerning aspect is that we don't know how many points we are likely to be deducted. I mean, it's always plausible that we beat the charge and get away scot free, but the realist in me knows that the league don't issue a charge without following it through. The repercussions for them would be huge, especially if it transpires that we would've been relegated had we received the charge. I guess either way the EFL are looking down the barrel of a nasty legal case. Imagine if Boro get relegated at our expense, 8 points behind us in the league having us escape a point deduction? Gibson would combust! Let's consider a nine point deduction as the best case scenario. The rules state up to 21 points, but I'd imagine that a punishment inline with Birmingham when they broke the rules would seem the most likely from the outside looking in. I can't see it being any less, only more, so it does seem our best case SHOULD we be fond guilty, of course. If it was to be imposed tonight that would leave us 22nd on 36 point. A point behind both Wigan and Boro on 37. A couple of points ahead of Barnsley on 34 who have won their last three games including a 3-0 win over Fulham. We have a tough schedule until the end of the season - Home: Blackburn, Reading, Forest, Brentford, Leeds. Away: Wednesday, Millwall, Preston, West Brom, Cardiff, Birmingham. We only have Reading and Birmingham left to play outside the top half. Reading the only team left to play that are below us in the league on merit and even they only occupy the position directly below us. It's almost a perfect storm. The question, I guess I'm asking myself, is when should we consider it as a realistic option? It's difficult as we don't exactly know what punishment we're facing as the club continue to peddle the line that we've done nothing wrong. I just don't realistically see the league issuing a punishment and then not acting on it, especially when one of the main aggressors - Gibson - could do with us taking a point deduction to save his own under-performing team. It's a mess. We are playing some tosh and are disappointing fans like me week in week out. . Cocu has tried but the players are letting him down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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