Depression, anxiety, stress and other related issues

[BondJovi]

I think it is very easy online to make those instant judgements. It comes down to the old cliche of walking in someone else's shoes but when it is just letters on screen that isn't easy. I don't believe we as a nation are very good at talking about problems, pressure on to project a perfect life. Things like facebook were a killer for me when I was going through hard times, I'd be looking around and asking why can't I be happy, what have they got that I haven't. I hated going out, wanted to be a recluse, I felt lonely but company never put out those flames.

Once I got help, got talking, I learnt who I am, how I think, how I think I want to be seen and that I have a right to do what is best for me before others first. I learnt the stress I could handle. My dad always use to call me a closed book and it drove him crazy, but I could never tell him what was happening in my mind. Was it shame? Shame I really wasn't mentally strong? The day I finally emptied my mind was a huge relief.

My problems were a huge barrier to my happiness and to what I could achieve. A huge issue to me, was probably nothing to someone else but that doesn't matter. Our mental health is our most important and should always be given that respect.

Threads like this are a wonderful thing in encouraging and supporting each other, but the best thing is a chat in person with someone who can and will listen and a pint may make it all the sweeter.

[Hugh Jorgen]

25 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

I think it is very easy online to make those instant judgements. It comes down to the old cliche of walking in someone else's shoes but when it is just letters on screen that isn't easy. I don't believe we as a nation are very good at talking about problems, pressure on to project a perfect life. Things like facebook were a killer for me when I was going through hard times, I'd be looking around and asking why can't I be happy, what have they got that I haven't. I hated going out, wanted to be a recluse, I felt lonely but company never put out those flames.

Once I got help, got talking, I learnt who I am, how I think, how I think I want to be seen and that I have a right to do what is best for me before others first. I learnt the stress I could handle. My dad always use to call me a closed book and it drove him crazy, but I could never tell him what was happening in my mind. Was it shame? Shame I really wasn't mentally strong? The day I finally emptied my mind was a huge relief.

My problems were a huge barrier to my happiness and to what I could achieve. A huge issue to me, was probably nothing to someone else but that doesn't matter. Our mental health is our most important and should always be given that respect.

Threads like this are a wonderful thing in encouraging and supporting each other, but the best thing is a chat in person with someone who can and will listen and a pint may make it all the sweeter.

Amen to that brother

[ronnieronalde]

Deleted post.

[Mostyn6]

Dean Windass is a high profile footballer who has suffered from depression since about 12 years old and tried to take his own life.

There's a little article here for anyone interested.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36403885

I hope you are all in a good place mentally x

[Alph]

On 25/04/2016 at 13:57, Mafiabob said:

I've decide to look into doing a counselling course of some description..... I've had 6/7 people separately tell me I would be pretty good at this line of work, so maybe looking into doing it part time or/and online..... Maybe a new exciting profession 4/5 years down the line for me!

Nice one Mafia!!! 

[ramsbottom]

Got to say I'm feeling really low today.  Despite shedding 10lbs in a week on the Cabbage Soup Diet and getting back to running I still feel like a fat, useless slob inside.  I feel that I'm use no as a father or husband, and they'd be better off without me and have my life insurance to spend.  I try to be positive for my wife's sake, but the voices in my head tell me she's sick me and she's found someone better.  I can't stand the thought of not being with them but I feel my behaviour is pushing them away...

[Sith Happens]

30 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

Got to say I'm feeling really low today.  Despite shedding 10lbs in a week on the Cabbage Soup Diet and getting back to running I still feel like a fat, useless slob inside.  I feel that I'm use no as a father or husband, and they'd be better off without me and have my life insurance to spend.  I try to be positive for my wife's sake, but the voices in my head tell me she's sick me and she's found someone better.  I can't stand the thought of not being with them but I feel my behaviour is pushing them away...

Hi, I know we are all different, all I can say is when i went through a difficult spell at work a few years ago, i was bottling it all up and didnt want to discuss with my wife as i felt like a failure, however in the end i just decided ot sit down and talk about it with her. It made things so much better just getting it off my chest, letting her know how i was feeling, its amazing how supporting people can be, we made a plan of action which included going to work and telling my boss i was having problems and was suffering from stress, just knowing she agreed that even if that meant i lost my job took a weight off my shoulders. My boss was another example of a supporting person and we worked through it and i felt so much better so quickly.

I know circumstances can be different, and its not easy, but opening up to those around us is so important.

I hope you feel better soon.

[Mostyn6]

1 hour ago, ramsbottom said:

Got to say I'm feeling really low today.  Despite shedding 10lbs in a week on the Cabbage Soup Diet and getting back to running I still feel like a fat, useless slob inside.  I feel that I'm use no as a father or husband, and they'd be better off without me and have my life insurance to spend.  I try to be positive for my wife's sake, but the voices in my head tell me she's sick me and she's found someone better.  I can't stand the thought of not being with them but I feel my behaviour is pushing them away...

worrying comment ramsbottom, but very very relateable. I believe, but have no evidence at hand, that quick and severe changes in both diet and weight have an effect on mood and energy. You're probably missing the sugar highs of your previous diet and not creating/releasing the endorphins created by exercise and balanced diet.

I generally try and avoid being a know-it-all about such things, mainly cos I'm a fat-knacker with a beer-belly myself. But lifestyle change is the way to feel better, and not 'fads' such as named/designer diets.

I would also say, having seen the aftermath, don't for one minute think your wife and children wouldn't immediately swap any insurance money, and everything else they possess to have their husband and father back. Just cos there may not be a feeling of love and worth floating in the air, do NOT assume that this doesn't exist. I would also be positive for your own sake. It's selfless to be pushing your positivity onto others, but it can also be counter-productive.

Everyone is different, it's a cliche. I personally have worked out that having something to look forward to keeps me focussed and borderline excited/positive. For example, next Friday, I go to Crete for a week, and the Euros start. Even though other things in my life are a bit grim, and I am very lonely and bored with life, the anticipation of a change of scenery and some time out is keeping my spirits up. It may be just papering over the cracks, but it works right now.

I know it's easy to say, but if you know your behaviour is pushing them away, try and remove your behaviour.

If you want to PM me, feel free, I am at work right now, but will try and get some time to answer anything you need, that's not to assume that I can help in any way, I am not that arrogant. 

Most importantly, find someone, anyone you know, who you know will listen, and unload, cry, ask for help, do something.

I can guarantee one thing, you'll burden people with guilt if you don't ask for help and do something silly much more than if you open up.

[Tombo]

3 hours ago, ramsbottom said:

Got to say I'm feeling really low today.  Despite shedding 10lbs in a week on the Cabbage Soup Diet and getting back to running I still feel like a fat, useless slob inside.  I feel that I'm use no as a father or husband, and they'd be better off without me and have my life insurance to spend.  I try to be positive for my wife's sake, but the voices in my head tell me she's sick me and she's found someone better.  I can't stand the thought of not being with them but I feel my behaviour is pushing them away...

As Mostyn says, a change in diet can really mess with your emotions. That's not to downplay how you feel of course. I recently started doing something similar, eating more healthily and running more to support my girlfriend who's trying to lose weight. I told her she doesn't need it but it's for her self esteem so...!

She's had some moments of feeling really down during all this, and I can totally see how you feel. It can be so exhausting both physically and mentally to try to change your life and not see the results.

But like I tell her, don't be worried about how far you've still got left to do, be proud of how far you've come. You got off your arse and strived to change, that's more than most people do.

I'd say talk to your wife. She's your life partner and that's what she's there for. Imagine if the roles were reversed and she felt how you do now. You would want to know wouldn't you? You'd want her to talk. A problem shared is a problem halved.

[i-Ram]

5 hours ago, ramsbottom said:

Got to say I'm feeling really low today.  Despite shedding 10lbs in a week on the Cabbage Soup Diet and getting back to running I still feel like a fat, useless slob inside.  I feel that I'm use no as a father or husband, and they'd be better off without me and have my life insurance to spend.  I try to be positive for my wife's sake, but the voices in my head tell me she's sick me and she's found someone better.  I can't stand the thought of not being with them but I feel my behaviour is pushing them away...

Not comfortable reading this buddy. Talk to your wife and please get an appointment to see your doctor.   You have opened up to us. Open up in the same way to your wife and Doctor. You need love and help. I am sure they are both there for you.

[Mafiabob]

7 hours ago, ramsbottom said:

Got to say I'm feeling really low today.  Despite shedding 10lbs in a week on the Cabbage Soup Diet and getting back to running I still feel like a fat, useless slob inside.  I feel that I'm use no as a father or husband, and they'd be better off without me and have my life insurance to spend.  I try to be positive for my wife's sake, but the voices in my head tell me she's sick me and she's found someone better.  I can't stand the thought of not being with them but I feel my behaviour is pushing them away...

As others have alluded, you've opened up to us, seek professional help, talk to your family.... Really hope the replies you are getting are being worthwhile on here. 

[Highgate]

9 hours ago, ramsbottom said:

Got to say I'm feeling really low today.  Despite shedding 10lbs in a week on the Cabbage Soup Diet and getting back to running I still feel like a fat, useless slob inside.  I feel that I'm use no as a father or husband, and they'd be better off without me and have my life insurance to spend.  I try to be positive for my wife's sake, but the voices in my head tell me she's sick me and she's found someone better.  I can't stand the thought of not being with them but I feel my behaviour is pushing them away...

Try to take it easy on yourself.  Remember it's ok, not to be ok.. You are doing great getting back into running, it's not easy to do that when you feel down, but i really think you should keep it up as much as you can.  Exercise really is a win/win for mind and body.  Like others have said, i think you need to seek medical advice.  Psychotherapy can be good, but there is a good chance you need to start medication or alter what you are currently taking.  It sounds like your serotonin levels may need stabilizing. That's certainly the case for millions of people all over the world..including myself, and there are medications out there which can do that effectively, to some extent at least.  There is no reason why we should allow ourselves to be handicapped everyday by a glitch in our brain chemistry, when it's often very treatable.  There are non medical things you can try too like muscle relaxation therapy and meditation for example.  There is bound to be something that works for you....don't give up for you and your family.  Let us know how you are getting on.

[G-Ram]

On 1 June 2016 at 08:44, ramsbottom said:

Got to say I'm feeling really low today.  Despite shedding 10lbs in a week on the Cabbage Soup Diet and getting back to running I still feel like a fat, useless slob inside.  I feel that I'm use no as a father or husband, and they'd be better off without me and have my life insurance to spend.  I try to be positive for my wife's sake, but the voices in my head tell me she's sick me and she's found someone better.  I can't stand the thought of not being with them but I feel my behaviour is pushing them away...

I hope you're alright mate. I cant comment on the depression side as fortunately for me its something ive not had experiance in. However truely i hope you're ok

With regards to the diet the fad diets are hard to stick to they make you feel hungry all the time. The restrictive calories can effect mood especially if you fail to stick at them. The restrictions cause your body to release water but the fat stores try to hold on to every ounce of fat and then when you go back to eating normal they try to hold on to fat making you feel worse than when you started and setting you back to your original weight

The refined sugars in foods cause spikes in blood sugar levels, then lows when it wears off, its what makes sugar so addictive. The refined sugars also convert and store as fat

i find the best diet is making a healthy change. Try to eat 5 meals a day every four hours. 

A meal should consist of a meat, a carb and a fruit or vegetable. A meat is chickem breast, steak, turkey breast and fish... Nothing else sausages etc are not meat , a carb consists of brown rice, brown pasta or sweet potato. Nothing else as carbs like white pasta contain refined processed sugars. I try to watch my carb intake depending on how much im watching my girly figure or how much im exercising, carbs are fuel. If you're running you need fuel on run days, less fuel on none run days. Veggies just try to aim for the green ones. Set one meal a week for earing what you want. I usually do this on Sunday night. By what you want its sunday dinner something semi healthy not a big mac. Breakfast is a little different try to start with eggs

I try to weigh my food out so i can judge how much im putting in and honestly believe nutrition plays a part in how we feel, if i eat bready refined foods i feel like a slob like my guts over hanging (i look the same in the mirror but i feel fatter)

Stick at the running, as daft as it sounds it might be worth signing up to a 10k, give you something to train for and eat well for, you might start feeling better and the feeling of accomplishment when you complete an event puts you on amassive high.

Most of all as others have said, talk to someone and i hope you're ok pal

[Rev]

22 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

I hope you're alright mate. I cant comment on the depression side as fortunately for me its something ive not had experiance in. However truely i hope you're ok

With regards to the diet the fad diets are hard to stick to they make you feel hungry all the time. The restrictive calories can effect mood especially if you fail to stick at them. The restrictions cause your body to release water but the fat stores try to hold on to every ounce of fat and then when you go back to eating normal they try to hold on to fat making you feel worse than when you started and setting you back to your original weight

The refined sugars in foods cause spikes in blood sugar levels, then lows when it wears off, its what makes sugar so addictive. The refined sugars also convert and store as fat

i find the best diet is making a healthy change. Try to eat 5 meals a day every four hours. 

A meal should consist of a meat, a carb and a fruit or vegetable. A meat is chickem breast, steak, turkey breast and fish... Nothing else sausages etc are not meat , a carb consists of brown rice, brown pasta or sweet potato. Nothing else as carbs like white pasta contain refined processed sugars. I try to watch my carb intake depending on how much im watching my girly figure or how much im exercising, carbs are fuel. If you're running you need fuel on run days, less fuel on none run days. Veggies just try to aim for the green ones. Set one meal a week for earing what you want. I usually do this on Sunday night. By what you want its sunday dinner something semi healthy not a big mac. Breakfast is a little different try to start with eggs

I try to weigh my food out so i can judge how much im putting in and honestly believe nutrition plays a part in how we feel, if i eat bready refined foods i feel like a slob like my guts over hanging (i look the same in the mirror but i feel fatter)

Stick at the running, as daft as it sounds it might be worth signing up to a 10k, give you something to train for and eat well for, you might start feeling better and the feeling of accomplishment when you complete an event puts you on amassive high.

Most of all as others have said, talk to someone and i hope you're ok pal

Kinell, I guess G-Ram is less of a username, and more of a target weight?

 

[ketteringram]

We need a diet and fitness thread. 

[Pearl Ram]

Well we've got buy it and shitness threads with the transfer and Forest threads so why not ?

[Rample]

Personal experiences - a close family member's attempt was triggered by not dealing with something from their past. They held on to it, not telling anyone, and eventually the weight of it got too much. Opportunity was there at the right/wrong time and they took it.

Second person I know was triggered by such a shocking accusation that they just did it. Not sure to this day if it was the enormity of the accusation or that it was true and that was their escape plan.

Personally, I came within days of mental breakdown not too long ago, no real reason, I guess life had beat me down for a few years, several family and money issues, unhappy at work, stressed, and always something at the back of my mind. I just noticed that I had become a zombie, unable to think or process things, almost like my head was full, and I was anxious of everything. Next day I took myself to the doctors and got put on citalapram. The next week was hell, almost as soon as I'd realised I had a problem it went into overdrive - always a taste in my throat, pounding head, nervous of everything and everybody, unable to go into busy places. Took 3 weeks off work, gave up anything that made me stressed in any way, and it calmed down a bit over that time before flaring up again. Now on escitalipram which is stronger and proving more effective. 

Thing is everybody I've shared that with is on/has been on/or has someone close on antidepressants. There really shouldn't be such a stigma. Life can get tough, if you need a helping hand coping there is medication available and it does work.

Just to add I also feel I hold my wife back and she'd be better without me on my really bad days, but that's just not true- she married me because she loves me and wouldn't change that no matter what I say. Talk to your wife and I'm sure she'll reassure you.

[ramsbottom]

On 6/1/2016 at 09:28, Paul71 said:

Hi, I know we are all different, all I can say is when i went through a difficult spell at work a few years ago, i was bottling it all up and didnt want to discuss with my wife as i felt like a failure, however in the end i just decided ot sit down and talk about it with her. It made things so much better just getting it off my chest, letting her know how i was feeling, its amazing how supporting people can be, we made a plan of action which included going to work and telling my boss i was having problems and was suffering from stress, just knowing she agreed that even if that meant i lost my job took a weight off my shoulders. My boss was another example of a supporting person and we worked through it and i felt so much better so quickly.

I know circumstances can be different, and its not easy, but opening up to those around us is so important.

I hope you feel better soon.

 

On 6/1/2016 at 12:35, Tombo said:

As Mostyn says, a change in diet can really mess with your emotions. That's not to downplay how you feel of course. I recently started doing something similar, eating more healthily and running more to support my girlfriend who's trying to lose weight. I told her she doesn't need it but it's for her self esteem so...!

She's had some moments of feeling really down during all this, and I can totally see how you feel. It can be so exhausting both physically and mentally to try to change your life and not see the results.

But like I tell her, don't be worried about how far you've still got left to do, be proud of how far you've come. You got off your arse and strived to change, that's more than most people do.

I'd say talk to your wife. She's your life partner and that's what she's there for. Imagine if the roles were reversed and she felt how you do now. You would want to know wouldn't you? You'd want her to talk. A problem shared is a problem halved.

 

On 6/1/2016 at 13:49, i-Ram said:

Not comfortable reading this buddy. Talk to your wife and please get an appointment to see your doctor.   You have opened up to us. Open up in the same way to your wife and Doctor. You need love and help. I am sure they are both there for you.

 

On 6/1/2016 at 16:29, Mafiabob said:

As others have alluded, you've opened up to us, seek professional help, talk to your family.... Really hope the replies you are getting are being worthwhile on here. 

 

On 6/1/2016 at 19:01, Highgate said:

Try to take it easy on yourself.  Remember it's ok, not to be ok.. You are doing great getting back into running, it's not easy to do that when you feel down, but i really think you should keep it up as much as you can.  Exercise really is a win/win for mind and body.  Like others have said, i think you need to seek medical advice.  Psychotherapy can be good, but there is a good chance you need to start medication or alter what you are currently taking.  It sounds like your serotonin levels may need stabilizing. That's certainly the case for millions of people all over the world..including myself, and there are medications out there which can do that effectively, to some extent at least.  There is no reason why we should allow ourselves to be handicapped everyday by a glitch in our brain chemistry, when it's often very treatable.  There are non medical things you can try too like muscle relaxation therapy and meditation for example.  There is bound to be something that works for you....don't give up for you and your family.  Let us know how you are getting on.

 

On 6/2/2016 at 19:34, G-Ram said:

I hope you're alright mate. I cant comment on the depression side as fortunately for me its something ive not had experiance in. However truely i hope you're ok

With regards to the diet the fad diets are hard to stick to they make you feel hungry all the time. The restrictive calories can effect mood especially if you fail to stick at them. The restrictions cause your body to release water but the fat stores try to hold on to every ounce of fat and then when you go back to eating normal they try to hold on to fat making you feel worse than when you started and setting you back to your original weight

The refined sugars in foods cause spikes in blood sugar levels, then lows when it wears off, its what makes sugar so addictive. The refined sugars also convert and store as fat

i find the best diet is making a healthy change. Try to eat 5 meals a day every four hours. 

A meal should consist of a meat, a carb and a fruit or vegetable. A meat is chickem breast, steak, turkey breast and fish... Nothing else sausages etc are not meat , a carb consists of brown rice, brown pasta or sweet potato. Nothing else as carbs like white pasta contain refined processed sugars. I try to watch my carb intake depending on how much im watching my girly figure or how much im exercising, carbs are fuel. If you're running you need fuel on run days, less fuel on none run days. Veggies just try to aim for the green ones. Set one meal a week for earing what you want. I usually do this on Sunday night. By what you want its sunday dinner something semi healthy not a big mac. Breakfast is a little different try to start with eggs

I try to weigh my food out so i can judge how much im putting in and honestly believe nutrition plays a part in how we feel, if i eat bready refined foods i feel like a slob like my guts over hanging (i look the same in the mirror but i feel fatter)

Stick at the running, as daft as it sounds it might be worth signing up to a 10k, give you something to train for and eat well for, you might start feeling better and the feeling of accomplishment when you complete an event puts you on amassive high.

Most of all as others have said, talk to someone and i hope you're ok pal

 

On 6/3/2016 at 10:53, Rample said:

Personal experiences - a close family member's attempt was triggered by not dealing with something from their past. They held on to it, not telling anyone, and eventually the weight of it got too much. Opportunity was there at the right/wrong time and they took it.

Second person I know was triggered by such a shocking accusation that they just did it. Not sure to this day if it was the enormity of the accusation or that it was true and that was their escape plan.

Personally, I came within days of mental breakdown not too long ago, no real reason, I guess life had beat me down for a few years, several family and money issues, unhappy at work, stressed, and always something at the back of my mind. I just noticed that I had become a zombie, unable to think or process things, almost like my head was full, and I was anxious of everything. Next day I took myself to the doctors and got put on citalapram. The next week was hell, almost as soon as I'd realised I had a problem it went into overdrive - always a taste in my throat, pounding head, nervous of everything and everybody, unable to go into busy places. Took 3 weeks off work, gave up anything that made me stressed in any way, and it calmed down a bit over that time before flaring up again. Now on escitalipram which is stronger and proving more effective. 

Thing is everybody I've shared that with is on/has been on/or has someone close on antidepressants. There really shouldn't be such a stigma. Life can get tough, if you need a helping hand coping there is medication available and it does work.

Just to add I also feel I hold my wife back and she'd be better without me on my really bad days, but that's just not true- she married me because she loves me and wouldn't change that no matter what I say. Talk to your wife and I'm sure she'll reassure you.

Morning chaps,

Just to let you all know I'm doing a lot better.  Had a good chat with the Mrs, had a little cry, had a couple of days off and celebrated my lad's birthday as a family.  Certainly made me appreciate the little things a lot more, and I'm feeling stronger for it.

Thanks for advice and letting me know I'm not alone in feeling like this from time to time.  You're a good bunch...

[EssendonRam]

On 26 April 2016 at 01:41, David said:

Adopt a dog, not a crazy Jack Russell or anything, something that's past the must destroy everything age and sleeps all day. Walking into a house with a tail wagging ready to lick your face may help. Don't get too intimate with it tho, theres laws about stuff like that.

You are describing a greyhound.

[EssendonRam]

On 20 April 2016 at 07:59, RamDon said:

My entire family (both parents; older sister and younger brother), excluding myself until last year, suffer seriously from depression. I was always aware that I too had a tendency towards depression but seemed to possess an innate ability to redirect my mind towards thoughts and/or activities which averted falling into a depressive state.

Even when a close mate died of a drug overdose after years where I was the only person who remained to support him through many attempts to get, and stay, 'clean'; even after his family denied him a funeral because they didn't want anyone to know he'd been a drug addict, I sought counselling and worked with families of addicts for years afterward by way of 'processing' all that happened.

But that changed just over 12 months ago when the brain damage I had so miraculously avoided when I 'died' of a pulmonary embolism on 31/10/2007 (I was clinically dead for 45 minutes apparently, then comatose for almost a month) was diagnosed as beginning to happen. Essentially, the diagnosis was that I would likely have all of the symptoms of Alzheimer's within 5-10 years; it's fair to say that I have always been proud of my intellect and strength of mind and the diagnosis struck directly at both. I couldn't divulge the diagnosis to my family and told only a couple of my closest friends. Not long after, the family learned that my father had been gambling once again. The combination hit me badly. I called in sick to work for the week that Sunday night as I could feel - for the first time in my life - a physical weight descend around me, crushing me. I know now it was my first - and only - episode with clinical depression; in a way, I knew it then.

Later that night (I have only admitted this to one person, a mate of 20 years + who had battled clinical depression for several years), I literally started trying to think if I should end it all.

The only thing which snapped me out of the downward spiral was my dog. After spending quite some time with him (saying 'goodbye' I suppose), Ned (very unusually) disobeyed my instruction to go outside and I went ballistic at him.

Ned was terrified, the first time he'd ever cowed in front of me. Having been an abused dog when I adopted him (in April 2007) who'd become confident to the point where few could imagine he'd been a scared, abused little dog when I adopted him, that cut me to the bone. It penetrated the 'fog' around my psyche; all I really immediately understood was that his last memory of me be frightening.

I spent the rest of that night just holding Ned, trying to make it up to him and sought help the next day.

But, had he not defied me and then responded with such obvious terror of me, I honestly don't know what would have stopped me doing something stupid that night. I have no idea what would have happened to be honest; intuitively, I believe I would have found something to cling on to. That, perhaps, is convenient revisionism; all I truly understand is that, for the first time in my life, I was literally careering out of control. 

Now having experienced it, I am strong again. Work has been tortuous in recent months (they've actually tried to use my future disability against me) and, if I was as vulnerable now as I was then, the outcome of recent months may not have been pretty. But I'm not. I am strong again and no one other than myself can undermine me mentally again. My sister and several close friends have proved whom I can lean on when, and if, I need it.

 

On 20 April 2016 at 10:03, RamDon said:

 

Thank you. But, as I said, having experienced it and learned the (in hindsight) obvious lesson that no-one is an island and no-one should try to take everything on...no matter how strong you think your willpower is...eventually, should the breaks go against you, the load can break you.

No matter who you think you are.

More importantly, the fact is that I am extremely fortunate. I have people on whom I can rely and, for various reasons, chose not to. In my family I have always been the strong one, even as a kid so I chose to 'protect' them. Stupidly, I forgot the strength of character my sister in particular rises to when she needs to. She more than anyone else did so when I 'died' back in 2007 and she's done so once again.

As for Ned, I used to joke that he was a jinx. His previous owner was a 30ish yo bloke who suffered a stroke and never recovered. Within 6 months of adopting him, I died from my first serious illness.

But no-one should ever doubt how powerful the restorative powers of pets. As with people, sometimes you just have to let them look after you.

As for my diagnosis, it's not an act when I say I have always seen every day as a bonus since I awoke from the coma on the Thursday before the West Ham game at Pride Park. That season was a greater trauma than anything else I suffered that year!

But it certainly explains why I feel a sense of urgency in wanting to see both of my sporting loves, Derby and Essendon in the AFL, back up there while I can still remember it!

I have been thinking an update is in order but have held off to be honest because I suppose I have been trying to understand why I feeling like I should...and why I have hesitated. I am still not clear in my own mind on the former but the reasons for hesitation are relatively straightforward.

Simply, first and foremost, despite the "life lessons" I have learned in recent years, I am still fundamentally an extreme introvert (albeit with some extrovert tendencies for those familiar with Myers-Briggs personality profiles) although, let's face it, the relative anonymity of the Internet can be both of great assistance in that regard but also it can deceptive (openness in a relatively anonymous forum can FEEL like you're unburdening yourself - and may indeed suffice for many in terms of talking through what is troubling them - when, deep down, it doesn't actually help with the crippling sense of isolation.

One of the things that I had to confront about myself over recent years is what lay behind what I have always called my "wounded bird syndrome", and yet (despite being very open about many things when I chose to be) always being reluctant to allow those close to me to "rescue" me when they could see I needed it (although I am very skilled at hiding my vulnerabilities). In those times when I concluded that I needed a hand, I would hire a counsellor, etc without hesitation but rarely open up EMOTIONALLY (as opposed to analytically) to my family and friends.

Having been called out for doing it in recent years by some people who are very important to me, it is something I am gradually trying to change although I have to admit that I struggle at times with the manner in which it can disrupt my (perfectly healthy) periods of introversion. But it is a learning curve for all involved.

All of this boils down to a lesson I had to learn and, through the discourse on this thread, a lesson some others may (or may not) need to learn too. Self-reliance, stoicism, introversion, etc are neither good, nor bad, of themselves. Quite frankly, they're all 'Goldilocks' traits; an over-abundance or over-reliance on these traits will potentially close you to 'solutions' and harm you down the track, just as much as relying too much on others (and failing to build on YOUR resilience).

In another thread, someone very kindly described me as selfless. Now, in some ways I am; in other ways, I am very self-centred and self-absorbed and they are aspects of myself that I have always been keenly aware of (and not even slightly embarrassed by).

But, until recently, I would have objected if someone called me selfish, for I am anything but selfish in almost every way imaginable. As I have been dealing with some particularly venal times at work - to the extent that the constant conflict really started to impact me, my personality and my outlook. As I am wont to do, I talked about what was happening with several people to whom I am very close.

As two in particular saw how it was affecting me, they each (independently) accused me of only trusting them "so much". I had something of an epiphany even though I had always "known" it about myself but not quite "understood" its impact either on me or others.

i am selfish in many ways. Not financially. Not in terms of time or care for others or willingness to help. Not with my personal history. 

Not even emotionally. As long as they were someone else's emotions.

I am even often open about my feelings, my emotions. When. I. Choose. To. Be. I will tell you all about them. I would never show them however; let alone share them.

It is only in recent months that I have genuinely shared how deeply affected I have been by events outside my control, although not entirely outside my sphere of influence. And genuinely benefited from being able to lean on others when I needed to although, given the personalities of two in particular, I still find it grating that they "need" to review everything when I am calm and enjoying relaxing and not thinking about it. 

 

So...my update ?

To start with the (interim) conclusion :

i have recently been sacked. Quite unfairly. Entirely under false pretences for which I have launched legal action for redress.

My now former employer sacked me via email at 4.07pm on 27 May. Three ethical (not legal) no-nos right there: (a) the disrespect inherent in dismissing an employee of 5+ years standing via email without even a call (let alone face-to-face) to alert me. As it happened, I was accessing my email at 4.24pm to send my employer one reminding them of an undertaking they had failed to fulfil; (b) to do so in the late afternoon without forewarning, let alone without alerting support services in case the sackee reacts poorly to the news; and (c) 27 May was a Friday. They sacked me without warning an hour before the weekend was about to commence, rendering support services unavailable until Monday.

Fortunately, my immediate reaction was relief. But they were not to know that and that conduct, particularly as they know I have suffered from depression and indeed had been absent from work due to work-induced stress, is either vindictive and/or careless and disgracefully irresponsible.

Their premise for my dismissal is twofold: that I failed to follow their lawful directives in that (a) I failed to attend an appointment with an 'independent' neurologist; and (b) I had not provided them with certificates for my mist recent bout of sick leave.

Neither is correct; I had been on sick leave from 18/3 to 6/4 and again from 21/4 until 27/5. I returned to work against the advice of my doctor on 7/4 because my employer exercised their discretion not to pay my sick leave on the day my automatic entitlement ran out; a highly unusual decision to say the least particularly when they are aware that I had claimed it was due to work-induced stress.

That stress had been building for several months. I completed an almost three-year secondment within the company and was due to return to my previous role. The boss of my previous team had previously tried to have my bonus removed a few years before on spurious grounds; grounds I easily disproved. 

I formally returned to my previous role on 29 September although continued in my seconded role for most of two weeks after that as well. I decided to be upfront with her about my diagnosis and the manner in which it barely affects me. Its most noticeable impact is the manner the meds disrupts my sleep especially on weekends when I take substantially larger doses. As a result, I had informally starting late on Mondays. She offered to formalise them but said there were bureaucratic requirements to fulfil.

It turned out to be a set up. They employed a 'return to work' consultant whose qualification was as a physiotherapist even though I hadn't been absent in almost two years. During the meeting, it became obvious what the physiotherapist's brief actually was so I started outlining why questions seemed to have an odd focus. In the end, he became so frustrated with answers like "I was working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week for well over a year until just over a month ago" to the question "do you find it too hard to keep your energy up for a full 8 hour day?" and looked at my boss in exasperation as if to say "you didn't tell me this."

At that point, she exploded and yelled that she didn't believe I could keep working full time". I was stunned, this was the first indication I had had of such an agenda and responded only with "that's a rather large call to make after knowing me for 6 weeks".

It then became clear that her purpose was to remove me. After a restructure, I inherited a new boss in her 20s or early 30s and in her first leadership role. I had instructed my previous boss not to discuss my diagnosis with my new boss at least until I had explained it to her. I still have no idea what the b*tch actually said to her but she breached my privacy anyway, as did her boss.

My new boss claimed i missed an email and suggested it was a symptom. They demanded an unrestricted authority to speak to my neurologist seeking "proof that I was still fit for work". I offered a certificate from him. They backed down solely because of my previous boss's faux pas but demanded a certificate every quarter from my neurologist even after I pointed out that I don't even see him half-yearly.

After he took 8 weeks to provide what they wanted (including 5-6 weeks when he was on leave) during which I was placed on 'adverse performance' but verbally advised that acceding to their demands was "critical" to resolving their "concerns" about my performance, they refused to accept his written advice about my condition and demanded an independent neurologist assess me.

By this time, my relationship with my new boss was breaking down. She resented me telling her that, if she thought she saw symptoms in me, it was me that she needed to discuss them with as she was suffering "attributive bias"; that is the technical term for when you start looking for signs of something simply because you know about it (such as when we Derby fans look for signs we are jinxed because we know about the gypsy curse....that's a good example, I might use it in court!)

She regularly made snide remarks about me forgetting things (including my own state of health on one infamous occasion). She even cited me not hearing something she said over a faulty teleconference line as an example of me "lacking sufficient to detail" and didn't bat an eyelid when I pointed out she was aware I am partially deaf and publicly attacked me for asking her to repeat something on several occasions. Due dates for deliverables were changed according to her whim without me being told until after the fact.

I had a stand-up confrontation with her in one such instance; her response was that it didn't matter if it hadn't been due yet as she'd decided I had enough time to do it.

i went on stress leave the first time after her boss and her accused me of dishonestly misrepresenting our (witnessed) discussions in trying to correct her incorrect minutes. As others who saw it will attest, I was getting close to exploding at the continuous harassment and snide insults. When I returned after they refused any longer to pay my sick leave, I learned that I had been booked for an independent neurologist three days' later. When I pointed out that they had still not given me their written reasons for requiring this and the legal basis for the request (which I first requested in December) together with written assurances as to who would read the report, they provided it the day before the appointment. I asked for an extension as they were aware that I needed my solicitor to review it on my behalf. They refused to extend it even by a single day, accused me via email of refusing to attend the appointment and stated that they would be reviewing my employment status as a result.

Other than again using it to threaten a review of my employment status twice more, the independent neurologist was not mentioned again even after I asked when it was to be rescheduled.

My second and final period of stress leave resulted from my boss directly attempting to humiliate me in our team meeting and in discussions with our stakeholders. One stakeholder wrote to her to complain about her behaviour; the same one who had nominated me for a lucrative award based on the work I had delivered for him which my boss not only rejected but didn't even tell me that he had offered such high commendation of me. 

It didn't fit with a narrative that I was difficult, incompetent and suffering "periods of confusion".

In my second period of sick leave, my boss demanded my certificates. I sent them to her via email. A week later I received a letter (sent to my previous address when they have my current address) demanding them in two days, else my employment status would be reviewed. I pointed out that this was the first I knew she had claimed not to have received them. I asked to be advised if they weren't received by COB that day and sent them via email again.

A week later, another demand, again sent to my previous address, saying they had not been sent, with a failure to provide them by a date and time already passed to result in my dismissal

I responded in writing immediately, very pointedly and advised that I would send them via registered post. They accepted that. 

I did so. Australia Post confirmed that it was delivered on 25/5. On 27/5 at 4.07pm, they dismissed me citing non-receipt.

Unfortunately for them, I had confirmed with the concierge if our building that he had taken delivery of the registered mail and sent my boss an email directly on 26/5.

Check mate, I believe that may be called.....except that my severance payment, which should have been paid by law no later than 1/6 has still not be sighted....and their advice of what they intend to pay excludes many thousands of dollars in my entitlements and falsely claims that I commenced working there in 2012 not 2010 which substantially reduces my payout too...

Considering that I have now not been paid for 7 weeks (and one fortnight's pay in 10+ weeks, it is fair to say that it seems their last tactic may be to starve me into submission....

The reason for this lengthy update? To vent in part.

But also to reiterate that it doesn't matter how insurmountable the problems facing you may seem, there are always ways and means to change the dynamics.

In my situation, I made the right call several months ago to actually alert my sister and a couple of my closest friends about what was happening and was honest about my own concerns that, emotionally, I was struggling with the barrage my employer (one of our largest banks) seemed determined to destroy me with.

Right now, even though I am financially 'stuffed' until I get some money from them, I know how I am going to make it to that time but, more importantly, I know they cannot overwhelm me as they were quite clearly trying to do and trigger either an angry (warranting immediate dismissal) response or a major depressive episode.

Honestly, I suspect that 12-18 months ago I would have, despite my high IQ, my legal training, my experience and my ability to become very cold, very calculating and very strategic when challenged, had I not learned that I couldn't always necessarily rely on my mind and willpower after that episode of full-on, debilitating clinical depression.

It was a critical lesson in hubris.

And, after experiencing some of the most vicious conduct I have seen in my career (almost 30 years), I have actually seen some of the people I am closest to in the world get that same sense of achievement that comes from standing beside someone they care about.

Legally, I doubt this will get to a formal hearing but how it will play out from here is pretty clear. And it has changed immeasurably how I intend to life until my diminished capability becomes an issue.

It has reinvigorated my ambitions, proved to me that I have nothing to fear for a few years yet. And critically much more to achieve than just manage a slow decline.