TuffLuff

Which d-head said embargoed until 7? Pah!

Embargoed until 7 I bet. Spoils Radio Derby having an extended phone in and comes out just as Wayne sits in his chair for MNF

*Ha, I mean don’t hold me to anything and let’s not got our hopes up!

24 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

The problem with that argument is, you have to have a functioning football to team to drive all of that.  If we have no team, then we get no income.  Even after GSE had driven costs down as much as they could, we were still losing ~£7m a year.  For a club the size of Derby, with all the associated costs, we're going to struggle to do much more than break even at Championship level, let alone League 1.  If you want to actually make money from Derby, you need to invest to get the club to into the prem and keep it there. 

For me, the big worry about not owning the stadium would be what happens in 5/10/20 years time.  Yeah, we may have an agreement with Mel Morris about cheap rents etc right now, but what happens if decides to sell it, or (not wanting to wish ill on anybody etc) if he dies and it gets passed on to whoever?  It could end up being owned by literally anybody, who could charge literally anything to rent it.  You'd have to have some kind of cast-iron guarantee that the club, and only the club, was allowed to buy it.  And I have no idea how viable that is, legally.  At least if it's owned by the council, it would remove some of that worry.

Oh yeah, I agree it doesn’t make a viable business but I’m just saying in terms of anyone bidding on the club then having a loyal fanbase willing to partake with money then that does hold some value.

I think maybe a slightly forgotten aspect in terms of the Appleby bid is that he did do an interview about 18 months ago, I think with the Rams Review podcast (apologies if it was someone else) where he basically said the business he was setting up with Rush was to takeover struggling clubs and get them to a point where it’s breaking even. That’s not to say his business strategy wouldn’t include the stadium, but hopefully there is some room to get a deal done within what his being proposed. Personally I do think the council deal has been set up probably with Applebys bid in mind, or at least to tell Ashley that if you want the stadium then up your bid and stop wasting time. 

I think there are so many ifs and bits in regards to a stadium deal I’m gonna wait and see what it looks like once it’s sorted. I think ideally it’s in everyone’s interest to not be in Mels hands!

Just a simple bit of maths that say Derby is ‘worthless’ without the stadium to suit their argument.

Lets say Derby have 25,000 fans worldwide who spend money in some way towards the club. Yeah I’ve plucked that figure out of nowhere but I’d guess its probably on the low side. Then let’s say, again on average, they spend £500 a season on things related to Derby County. Season tickets, shirts, Rams TV, merchandise for family members, suites on a matchday, food and drink in the concourses etc etc etc. Some will be less but some will be more.

That alone comes to £12.5 million. Whether I’m high or low on that figure, point is the fan base itself is worth millions before considering players, staff, brand (which is really underestimated here in regards to its value to Derby County and it’s place within the football make up. 

Is it worth £30 million without the stadium? Heck knows, but we are worth something getting towards that when you start adding it all together. 
 

21 minutes ago, RipleyRich said:

I can see some objection and outcry if that`s true. Council cutting services due to underfunding etc etc

If the council lose Derby County they lose a major part of the city’s culture and identity. Also businesses lose out because opposition fans aren’t coming to the city etc etc etc

There’s a lot of balancing out, but this scenario does atleast make some sense 

3 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

If we survive and take a hit with a 15 point deduction there will be no chance of new owners throwing the cash around, the EFL will put a ceiling on the salaries we can offer. They will also want an undertaking that the club will be sustainable for the next couple of years at least as they won't want the club to finish up in this position again,neither would the administrators for that matter.

You misunderstand ‘throwing cash around’, I’m saying essentially throwing money in to the club to subside running costs. We need a someone to bring I I a sustainable strategy. Not someone who has run it like Mel has in the hope of bringing in Prem money.

Just to add to last nights point I was trying to make…

Its not just money that is important, so the idea of how much is in a bid is partly obsolete aslong as there is some to pay creditors and for whatever else.

The big one is strategy, how the club will look in 3 years and what they will do to get to that point. This is why I think we get some bidders spouting like hey have, they want the football club but aren’t really appreciating what that entails.

We don’t want another idiot throwing cash around, that could be worse than the situation were in now. it needs a clear strategy that we can keep to.

16 minutes ago, The_Sheriff said:

So theres no one who is any good? 

Who knows at this stage, there might be someone we don’t know about, or if Appleby is still on then I think that could be the one that could be somewhat good. We’ve just attracted a lot of chancers unfortunately.

Ok so after reading the statement tonight I went away and gathered my thoughts. I think how I feel about this is quite different to others, but I hope people can read it and understand where I’m coming from. I have no positive conclusions, and I get some people aren’t really up for something like this so if it’s you then feel free to ignore this post and read on. It’s going to be long, unapologetically ponderous and contain atleast one swear word! Also I’ll be the first to admit, what I think is going on has swung wildly throughout this thread, so I’m not saying I’m 100% correct.

—————-

My main point I want to get over here, is that I’m very concerned that Derby (anything connected to the club or the community) has found itself in the middle of a pissing contest between a lot of rich men. We were warned about this happening way back at the start of administration, by Mel in his interview with Ed Dawes and I think by Q early on too. That a lot of interest is expressed by people and you’ve got to shift through the chancers essentially. The one thing that seems weird to say at the minute is that Derby County is a huge club, and there are people out there trying to snatch us on the cheap and are trying to upset the process to put themselves in pole position without having the best offer.

Now let’s look at the culprits who’ve been involved:

Mel Morris- Now Mel’s the biggest and most important one, but there are key differences here to everyone else involved. One is that Mel has been involved in the pissing contest for *years* now with the EFL, but also he’s upfront his involvement. Many won’t like this, but I do think Mel is somewhat sceptical by some of those in the bidding process and whether they are right for the club and so are the admins. I’ll be clear, im not ‘pro-Mel’ and hope my past posts would be enough to prove that! He’s the one who’s got us in the mess and this is all his doing, but I think hes aware of that fact and is trying to do the right deal with the right person. It’s not nice for us, but I can’t see how Mel’s current position works in any other way? I have said this repeatedly but Mel loses a lot more than just money if no deal is made, but if it goes to the wrong person he also loses out. Him and the admins need the right deal here which isn’t easy.

Chris Kirchner- He may be out of the race and shouting from the sidelines but he’s been a problem for a long time. First he went about cooing Rooney but then was rattling off on Twitter until recently. He tried to be clever and gain an advantage, it didn’t work and went after the administrators. It didn’t help anything. Essentially I think he showed himself up and we became wary.

The Binnies- Bit more of an interesting on this I think, but it’s a similar pattern, came out guns blazing about their bid, all goes quiet and then blame the administrators. But I think the important thing with The Binnies, Kirchner and Ashley is that the see a club with top facilities, the potential to grow and everything else and want it on the cheap. When they don’t have a strong enough plan in how to achieve that potential then they fall short in the eyes of the admins and Morris.

Mike Ashley - The most well known and currently the one trying to pull everything in his favour. No care for anything else, he’s interested in Derby the asset and not the club. Everyone is reluctant to deal with him but if all else fails he will still be there willing to pay the lowest price possible. 

Steve Gibson and Couhig- This is old ground we don’t really want to get into, but they caused a major blockage in this and caused damage to the club. Why? Because they could.

There are more minor players involved too, ‘the itk game’ on social media of people putting confusing and unhelpful info out there which is slanted to agenda which is usually ‘Mel is bad’. Which I get, fully, but to what end is that helpful to the position the club is actually in? Journalists are doing it now too and it’s frankly confirmation bias for clicks. They are fuelling the fire to put everything in place to muddy the process, leaving it open to MA. Also don’t forget the role the EFL have had for years in this, but I think that’s down to just being useless more than anything 

Whilst everyone is trying to sort everything to their own means who’s left in the middle? The fans, the players, the management have taken hthe brunt of it. Arguably Q too, but frankly it’s their job to take it somewhat (All I’ll say about them is I think they got done over a bit when taking the job, but they have not helped themselves throughout this whole process). We are seeing the face of modern football for what it is, a contest played out on Twitter, in meeting rooms and through the press, between men for which have no passion for what football is.

Whats next? As I said at the start, there is no positive here. As fans we need to accept relegation and a likely points deduction but see the bigger picture. If you want to protest anything on Saturday then let it be about what these people have resorted this football club to. Expose the games they have played and the effects on the community around Derby County. I still think we will have a club at the end of this, but it is up to us to define what Derby County is and not anyone who takes us over.

Finally I didn’t include Appleby, that tweet came through just as I started writing this so decided to exclude him from my thinking. BUT FWIW his group was the one who haven’t really been involved so they don’t really fit in with what I’m saying!

Apologies for a long read, I’ve tried to spell/grammar check but if something doesn’t make sense I’ll try and clarify!

9 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Anybody still convinced Mel Morris isn't pulling the strings of Quantuma?

 

But to what end does this work? I’m not saying it’s wrong, but I think it sounds a good thing to say for those on the anti-Mel agenda rather than making sense?

I think the more balanced outlook is Mel buggered up the books so badly it has made the club a hard sale for the admins, that’s without the EFL/Boro mess and all the other mess. Mel, whether it has been the club to begin with, or now the stadium, has put himself in a dreadful negotiating position which hasn’t helped either, everyone is waiting to see who blinks first, because someone is getting a potentially big club with too facilities for a good price if they are willing to sit it out. Quantuma don’t come out of it well I get that, but they’ve dealt with a man who’s been cutting his nose to spite his face for a long time now. 

Colour me cynical, but with the Mail and Percy articles yesterday, then Percy with the ‘Ashley still being very interested’ line today…something doesn’t quite add up with it all?

Its more men with money playing games with one another. I for one ,and presumably the fanbase as a whole, are sick of it

2 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Ironically, £10m funding from Mel Morris and the club would've been able to see out the season without being in administration, overcome a 9 point deduction, still had a viable squad and be in no worse a position (arguably better) for him to sell as a solvent business.....

 

 

Christ he's really *redacted for legal reasons and good taste*

As time goes on, the decision to put us in administration appears to have been a ‘nuclear option’. He needed someone else aside to strategise the next few years and how it would look. It may have been a bigger hit short term as we asset stripped (possibly losing Rooney would be the biggest one), but we’d have a club, a stadium and as you say a solvent business to sell.
 

There’s been no foreshadowing for if something goes wrong, whether that’s the EFL, Boro or anything else. Like there was no foreshadowing for ‘getting to the premier league’ or the realities of using academy players. That’s just poor business strategy. 

As many, like Knighton and members of the council have said over time, if Mel doesn’t play ball then he has a lot more to lose than money…so he needs to play ball here!

Here’s a thought, but it serves everything that’s possibly come outside these last few days.

The bids currently do fall below ‘the golden share’ (a phrase I hadn’t heard of until tonight btw), roughly £10 million below what is needed. Then Mel is offering to loan ‘the rest’ to essentially save the club. So Mel isn’t directly involved with a deal but, he kinda is?

I don’t know, that’s just some guesswork, but it connects a few dots that are about.

3 hours ago, TexasRam said:

Not sure if it’s 100% reliable, however 

 

FWIW, and because there’s little else to discuss, I don’t think Andy is the worse ‘#itk’ out there. I don’t really follow aside when he comes up in a #dcfcfans Twitter search but he’s at least interesting and raises interesting points 

I do think he probably knows someone, but the issue the person he knows probably has a bit of money and a vendetta against Morris. Therefore he gets bits of info this person wants out, therefore I’m not sure he’s overly trustworthy.

The other issue is that because of this he overcomplicates and over analysis's so what he wants to say doesn’t translate very well. This means that, atleast the stuff I’ve read, ends up being 2+2=5.

So yeah, it’s a somewhat interesting account but take it with a pinch of salt. Thing is with #itk’s I’m sure a lot do get told stuff, let’s face it loads of us do, but you really need to be able to communicate a clear point and do it at the right moment in the right way. Be smart about it, basically!

That none of you have yet mentioned a Derbyshire oatcake is frankly disgraceful. 

At this minute we know nothing and won’t know anything until the admins meet the EFL.

Sharing articles from ‘Football League World’, Alan Nixon or any of that ilk that is telling us what we already know/presume is only going to create more panic and everyone blowing up saying ‘well something should be happening right now’

Don’t play the the clickbait journalists game, it will all comes out through trusted channels when it needs to

I’ve been fooling you for months, it was me who was #itk all along!

Throw all other #itkers in the bin!

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/george-clooney-derby-county-fan-6862303
 

Hi George! ?

Nice move by Team Derby in my opinion, they enforced the admins to come out before the end of the week and give the fans an actual timeline.

Why are people so hung up on the Friday ‘deadline’? I don’t think the admins have actually come out and said that, it’s Team Derby putting that out there and it’s an interpretation. Much like it was Radio Derby really hammering the 10-14 days thing what Andrew Hosking said quite flippantly.

I’m not trying to defend them, it’s been dealt with very poorly, but what’s the point in holding them to something that they haven’t actually said?

1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said:

Absolutely, multi-purpose hankies they were!

One side for ya covid, the other for ya jam.

Still talking about masks are we? 

Anyway had 5 friends who I see regularly test positive recently mainly from going out to different things from last Wednesday to Saturday. All symptoms are mild (they are a fully vaccinated lot!) but just say it’s pretty rife just at the minute so be careful if you don’t wanna pick it up/miss days of work (for the self employed!)

12 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

What's your thinking TuffLuff???

I’ve thought for a while it’ll be Mike Ashley (I think everything has just pointed that way) but he won’t pay the HMRC threshold and we start on -15 next season. In turn this means other smaller creditors will be shafted and that’s what Team Derby are getting at in the statement.

The delays now are about getting all the background stuff sorted and getting the PR side of things together.

To be clear, I’m not in the know at all. Just going on what others have said over time and Ashley’s business practices. I honestly hope im wrong and everyone gets paid appropriately and we are on an even footing next season.

Just now, TuffLuff said:

 

Everyone will cotton on to the ‘end of the week’ bit, to be honest I’m more intrigued by the last couple of paragraphs. 

Huge clue to who it’ll be and what’s going to happen I’d say….#notitkthough