BondJovi

Not really sure why everyone is getting so worked up about it. The club knew what they were working with and doing. We have opted to gamble on keeping Cashin and this is our outcome. We took gambles on two injury prone players we didn't need to. I can't imagine we are even close to justifiyng the wages spent on Bradley yet.

PW was in part hired because he is used to working under a budget. Did his Rotherham sides have a greater budget than we do?

I think DC had/has every confidence that PW could deliver promotion in these conditions. 

The last thing we need to do now is make a panic signing. We may have to accept that it is up to PW to get the best out of the resources he already has at the club. We will only really get a true idea of what DC is willing to put in once restrictions are lifted and my feeling is it won't be a huge amount different. But I'd rather we stay sensible.

3 minutes ago, S8TY said:

 

If we knew it was going to be difficult getting players in why haven't we used Robinson and Weston more from the bench to at least give them a try 

Sadly I believe PW would rather flog his senior players into submission than give the youth a go.

Clearly we are having to be very smart and sensible with our finances but there is the big resource of the academy that PW chooses to ignore. 

We might have found a player who can offer sufficient cover that we could afford to maybe pay more for a  player who will really improve us. If nothing else, a few mins rest for those players aged 30+ would be welcome!

Doesn't really strike me that there is much sense of planning ahead going on.

2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

"The idea that Warne is some impoverished coach with no resources and a begging bowl is utter nonsense. Our wage bill (even on our business plan), pulling power as a club (purely on size), facilities etc eclipse the rest of the division with maybe one or two exceptions."

Despite the above we were still outbid for a player by another team in this league.

So obviously all of the advantages you listed counted for nowt.

Outbid proves nothing. They might be willing to spend all their budget on one player. Perhaps if the manager trusted more of the squad, we could go bigger on one player. But he wants more bodies in.

It really shouldn't be difficult to convince players to join us in this league though.

Warne is managing in the best conditions since Lampard. Yes, he doesn't have a blank chequebook but he has zero behind the scenes antics, he has the full support of the owner. These are far better conditions than he had at Rotherham and that didn't stop him.

Just now, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

To come on after 89 minutes when we are winning by three goals

The same applies to Robinson.

I don't overly think we have played well over the last 4 games. Last night was poor but we got the win.

The way we set up does leave us horribly exposed down the middle. Teams willing to run at us will cause us issues. Bird gets picked on, but defensively he is having to do the job of two players. I have long believed his biggest weakness is not imposing himself in games often enough but the way we play does not lend itself to that. We waste a lot of his skillset. A 3rd midfielder really should be the option.

That said, the way we play is perfect for NML and Barks to do their thing. Get it out to them and see what they can do. Some of our crosses seemed incredibly hopefull and I do wish we could try something different. I worry how much we are flogging the senior players in order to play this way.

Clearly we are scoring a lot of goals from crosses so what do I know. But what I would like to see is us take control of the game once infront, not sit back and give the opposition the go ahead to attack. 

I also think PW has to be more proactive with his subs. Bradley has become the Buxton sub of Nigel Clough days. It is a shame we let them back in as I thought last night would have been a great time to give Brown some minutes.

Hopefully the players we bring in this month will improve us rather than bloat the squad. We are nicely poised for what we all hope is an exciting next few months.

27 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

A solid 3-0 away win. 3 different goal scorers, clean sheet, vital minutes for Ward (who showed he can play the rb role but perhaps not as defensively able as Nyambe), 5 league wins in a row (scoring 13 and conceding 1 on that run), up to 5th in the table, no obvious injuries or suspensions picked up. Happy Saturday!!! 🐏 

Only slight criticism I can think of is missing the opportunity to give minutes to the youngsters on the bench BUT still be a good experience for them to have travelled with and been part of a squad winning away.

As soon as the third went in, we should have got NML off. Absolutely vital to our team. Saves his legs 10-15 mins and gives Brown a reasonable go, rather than 3 mins!

Other than that, onwards we march!

I have always felt that throwing on an extra defender sends out a negative mindset. You are telling the opposition we have settled for what we have. You invite them to send more players forward and instinctively you drop deeper, more likely to commit fouls closer to the box.

It always used to be the Nigel classic with Buxton. Personally I prefer not changing the back line unless you are forced to. That said there are times when it is the right move, depending on the flow of the match.

I don't believe sending on an extra defender should be the default position when winning 1-0 with 10 to go. Much prefer to see a more confident approach, especially if we have been the better team across the whole game.

21 hours ago, YorkshireRam said:

I feel like i'm in that same position with Warne now. Ideally I wanted Rosenior to stay, but the moment that decision is made, I felt like I should back and get behind the new manager. I knew we wouldn't be seeing fast-flowing, attractive football, nor would we be seeing youngsters utilised as often as under Cocu, or even Rooney. Warne has his strengths and it's pragmatic football that's especially effective at League 1 level. That's why i'm not judging him on academy inclusion, or style of play- just the bit he's supposed to be effective at: achieving promotion. 

We're still in the hunt, in this respect, and results do generally seem to be improving, and there's enough mitigating factors such as injuries for me to give him a bit of leeway. The result against Barnsley seemed to be the culmination of his efforts so far: for once we were that slightly nasty, physical team that completely outmuscled the opposition- that was pleasing to see as it was success measured by the metrics I've been judging him on since his arrival. I don't care about a loss in a cup competition we were never going to win, and could probably do without the extra games, given our squad size. Those sort of games happen, and I'm not bothered by the context or who played etc. - it all seems relatively trivial in the grand scheme of things.

Because promotion is still on the cards, I won't turn on Warne yet, if that starts to fade then what I will say is that Warne hasn't got much else to fall back on. But i'm not there yet, see where we are in the league table come Christmas and I might be harsher on him.

With how the first team are doing, he isn't doing bad enough to even consider getting rid. I think we have to be secure in those playoff spots by Christmas. My fear is that we spend much of the season, lurching from great result to poor result. Not enough to get him gone, but not enough to erase the doubts.

I am not so certain we can take such a short term view though. There are a lot of players out of contract this summer, we should be free from any outside constraints. It is a huge window. I don't think I can trust a man to lead the next stage of our rebuild who has zero intention of trusting the youth. We could have used the cup games, subs to see if there is anyone in the academy who can take on a squad role. It could save us a lot. We have to be smarter with our transfers. we have to be smarter with how we use our squad. Say, Fapetu came in played some great games. You then know you have a squad player for next season, or he plays well enough that he attracts bids. Either way, it is in our interest. As it stands, Warne has no intention of that being an option. Maybe I am wrong but I saw this season as the ideal one to try and bring through some of the youth.

If you were a young player and you and your parents/family were looking at where to sign and you wondered what the first team chances were, if you read Warne's more recent quotes, why would you come here? Cat 1 in League one and zero chance. His attitude towards the young players is a disgrace quite frankly. It also doesn't exactly speak kindly of the work the staff in the academy are doing. For someone who prides himself on the mental side and well being, he really does his best to shoot himself in the foot.

You are quite correct though, Warne has nothing else to fall back on. If we do fail to make the playoffs this season, then he has actually spent 2 seasons taking the club no further forward. He is not a coach, he isn't going to improve players and we certainly haven't developed any sort of identity. Even though it didn't work out with Cocu as manager, Bird, Knight, Sibley and Whittaker all benefitted massively from having a good coach, the future of our club. A shame that Rooney managed the latter two badly.

Getting in a promotion expert seemed like a good idea, but I fear we are sacrificing a lot of other things to go down this route. Part of me can't help but hope he fluffs it before Christmas. I started out thinking Warne was a great guy, now he is just an irritation.

Anyway. That is me done.

20 hours ago, YorkshireRam said:

What were your thoughts on Cocu? 

The reason I ask is because he was a massive proponent of youth progression, and yet I don't remember that affording him all that much leniency. That cup game against Forest where Cocu played as many youngsters as he could, he got absolutely slated by a lot afterwards for his selection. So I don't instantly buy the idea that if we'd played the youth and lost by the same score, the people criticising Warne would be any more lenient towards him, because I've seen historically this isn't necessarily the case.

Bradley was practically our marquee summer signing and needs minutes for his match fitness. I can understand the logic behind giving him that before the international break. There's also been times under Warne where ''giving players who weren't playing well, more time to continue'' has actually worked when the system has been tweaked.

I actually agree, it would have been good to see Weston play, but if we're playing whataboutism- what if he was entirely anonymous, could barely get a sniff, to the point it damaged his confidence? Surely that'd be bad management to introduce him to a game if this were to happen? Throwing youngsters into random games isn't automatically good for their development. I don't know either way, I just struggle making sweeping statements about internal circumstances I know very little about. 

 

I was a big fan of Cocu. He clearly had a plan. It took serious guts to pick the team he did in the league cup. I think had it been anyone other than Florest he wouldn't have got the flak he did. He gave youth minutes over experienced players. Had it not been for Covid, Bird, Knight and Sibley would have commanded big fees. He was exactly what those players needed, a good coach. I will maintain that he did a better (or at least equal job) as Lampard. We only scored 9 league goals fewer. However, luck and fate were against him for the second season. Will remain a what if for me.

21 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

11:40 onwards in here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0grntp1

"Hopefully we'll be able to make subs, but not patronising the opposition, I'll only make subs if the game is completely out of control either way. If we're getting humped I might as well let the academy lads play and if we're winning comfortably I will."

Well. That says it all really. I didn't need to type all my previous posts. That'll do pig, that'll do.

1 hour ago, YorkshireRam said:

You've fairly succinctly made my point for me here. Being included on the bench the following game after making your debut is 'taking note', it's not like he was instantly relegated back to the youth sides. Just because he isn't being launched into the deep end of regular first team football doesn't mean he's being ignored...  

He's also likely sensible enough to understand the reality of professional football and how the transition into the first team squad is not necessarily an instant one, and comprises of continually taking your chances when they're presented. 

The Bradley substitution was to alter the formation and try and push the wide players further forward. It was an attacking change involving a defensive player. It was not a direct affront to Weston and his personal development as a player. 

''Warne has not sent out the right messages regarding the academy''- without speaking to some of the academy players on the cusp of making the step into the first team picture, I have no way of assessing how true this statement is. Have you had contact of this kind, or is this just a guess?

Given the strength of the starting 11, my instinct tells me were it not for the international call ups and injuries that bench would not have contained the youth. I don't believe for one second he wanted to use them. I guess the proof will be how much youth involvement we see in the coming games. Does your manager coming out and saying he will only play you if the game is won and 3-0 inspire you?

I don't see anybody arguing that Weston should be a first team regular based on one sub appearance, but the last two games presented an ideal chance to let him get more of a taste for first team football, a taste that he would learn far more from than sat on his ass. If he played well, then he puts himself in the picture, if not, he knows what to work on. Otherwise what does he gain. A reward for him scoring and assisting, we all know Warne loves his rewards.

As for the sub, I understand entriely the reasoning behind it. All it did was give players who weren't playing well, more time to continue. It didn't need the same faces in new places, it needed something different. The result speaks for itself on the effectiveness of his decision. 

The last point is purely an opinion formed on the comments Warne has made publicly, the actions he has taken with his team choices. When he started Thompson, his comments after the match were of the "only young bless him". It was very much a picked him because he had to, not because he wanted to. And that is the message I do not like. He played the youth against Wolves because he wanted to rest some of the first team, not because he wanted to see what the youth could do. He is not used to working with an academy and it shows. 

I would be delighted to be wrong, because it will be the best for the club. I hope I am. 

1 hour ago, YorkshireRam said:

I could, but my initial response was a bit harsh so I deleted it. That post featured quite a lot of conjecture- ''I feel'', ''I imagine'', it's mostly just negative speculation. I've said a fair few times before I don't really care about these sort of opinions because it's just blind pessimism. For all the ''I imagine Weston feels deflated'', equally he may still be buzzing that he's already scored a senior goal for the club he only signed for in the summer?

If you feel a single cup loss has destroyed any or all momentum we had, then we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree. I've seen us suffer similarly embarrassing cup losses before and go on to have successful seasons overall- I really don't think this defines anything at all.

Of course, I'd be bloody stupid to state feelings as facts without that person directly telling me.

The performance against Crewe was rubbish. The substitutions/tactical changes had zero impact on the match. The manager chose to put on a defender when losing the game instead of giving a chance to a player who had scored and asissted in his pervious game.

Do you think Weston was buzzing when a defender got sent on before him when the team needed goals? Maybe next time he needs to score a hat trick and then Warne might take note...

In terms of momentum, I was referring more to the feel good generated around the academy. Of course we can still have a good season, but this reluctance to ultilise our squad could be our undoing. Given the number of players out of contract in the summer, these cup competitons would have been a good time to see if we had anyone in the academy who could step up. Their chances are now seriously limited before January. Makes even less sense when the cash isn't flowing.

Warne has not sent out the right messages regarding the academy, intentional or not and just when it looks like that has changed, he blows it. What is the point in investing heavily in keeping our cat 1 status if the figurehead won't utilise it. He has only really used those players in a game against a fellow U21 team. Right now, there is not a clear pathway.

A lof of fans have their concerns about his use of the squad, confused as to why he didn't do something that seemed like the most obvious thing to do. What concerns me most about this is that it seems like a complete lack of forward planning, the Wolves U21 game was not in the long term thinking, only decided a few days before.

Am I stupid for having concerns about his long term management of this club? This run of games up to Christmas is vital. If we aren't secure in those play off spots, it doesn't look good for him. I would have more patience if I could see that there was some long term thinking happening, if we were trying to do this with a young squad. But it all feels very Rowett like to me.

1 minute ago, YorkshireRam said:

So the answer is no to my hypothetical question then?

We can't ever know whether a different team would have achieved different results. Of all the games to lose from our recent fixture list, if I had to pick one, I'm picking this all day long. Yes it's not ideal and a tad embarrassing to go out in the first round, but we weren't going to win the thing, and I honestly don't think we have enough squad depth for a longer cup run. 

The Barnsley win reflects more positively on Warne, than this does negatively- that's my overall view.

I see it differently.

I sensed a whole club mentality after the Wolves game. We had two ideal opportunities since to build on that. Particularly Weston. Think how good he felt after the Wolves match. We could easily have given him the last 15 -20 against Barnsley. Then last night, none of those senior players could have any complaints if they got subbed for a youngster. At 3-1 the game was perfectly set for a cup hero, no real pressue, just go out and see if you can get us back in. But no. All that good from the Wolves game wasted. That fire and desire in Weston dampened as he sits and watches players going through the motions. I imagine he feels somewhat deflated.

It just cements my opinion that Warne is not a risk taker and he sees anyone under 21/20 as a risk, with very little trust. For a club with an academy that we have done a lot of work to get back in shape it concerns me greatly.

Just now, MackworthRamIsGod said:

No I wouldn't.

Weston was crying out for minutes on Saturday. I wouldn't have started him, but at 3 nil it would have made more sense bringing Weston on than Sonny Bradley.

 

Weston had scored the previous game, his confidence was high. We had the opportunity to build on that but we didn't. The game tonight was in need of someone to step up and show what they could do. I fear all we have done there is waste the feel good factor for Weston. Poor management. 

7 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

I would be sending them on and telling them to make themselves a hero. What an opportunity to turn the game around. More likely is that we shall see Bradley...

Oh Warne. 

Just now, Black ('n' White) Sheep said:

Give Fapetu, Weston and Brown a go for the last 15. Give us a kick up the a*se.

I would be sending them on and telling them to make themselves a hero. What an opportunity to turn the game around. More likely is that we shall see Bradley...

One only needs to see the number of stories, comments, of those who knew him, those who met him (however brief) and those who knew of him purely online (like myself) to know the personality and character of B4.

I always found an honesty, an unwavering passion in everything he posted. Sometimes unintentionally hilarious, but always from the heart. I have posted on and off here from very near the start of the forum and through all the dark and light his belief shone through. It was only during the admin days when that belief was shaken. It was Daniel's posts that really got to me, the desperation, the need for the club to survive.

A DcfcFans legend. The kind of support I am sure many of us wish we could give the team. 

My condolences to his family and friends.

We can and will catch Pompey!

If the top league managers had the sensible maturity of Postecoglu we wouldn't be in this mess. Listen to his interview post Chelsea game. Very rare to hear so much sense from a manager!

We did nothing to support referees. They get treated like garbage at grass roots. Their authority rapidly diminishing at the top level.

Football is a fast paced, physical contact sport. It never needed micro managing every goal. It never needed people watching screens looking for reasons to not give the goal.

If you are having to analyse several freeze frames, then it ruins it. I don't actually think they should be able to slow the video right down, because you are then making it something the ref could never possibly see. If itsn't immediately obvious upon review, onfield stays. They are the only ones that really matter.

The other thing, the rules are not black and white, they require common sense and an understanding of football or at least they did! You can tell so much by how the players react.

It can go in the bin.

I listened to Matt Hamshaw's interview after the game. Few things I took from it.

The decision to play the academy players was only made Saturday/Sunday. I am glad they took the opportunity but it doesn't seem like any sense of long term planning was involved, which I find a bit disappointing.

As a first team coaching staff they have been surprised at how quickly the academy seems to have recovered and are much further on than expected.

I know some of us on here have been disappointed and concerned with the lack of chances for our youngsters. Could it be they had no intention of utilising those players to give time for the academy to settle?

Either way, I think last night was a great moment for the whole club. 0bviously the real test is Barnsley and I get the feeling that match is key to Warne and winning back over those who are wavering. Poor performance and result and all this goodwill drifts away again. Win, it feels like everything is slowly turning our way.

What we played tonight was how I hoped we would have used this competition, a blend of first team who need minutes and academy players.

The academy players wouldn't have gained a huge amount from who they played against, as that is normally their level, but in terms of who they played with, benefits the whole club.

Would we have done this if this match wasn't against an under 21 side and we weren't already through? Something tells me no but I hope those who impressed get their chance again soon and we build on this.

Which kind of sums up my thoughts on Derby under Warne, when we do something well I want to see us build from that!

57 minutes ago, The Last Post said:

Watched the game, For me it was a farce, VAR is now taking control of the game, what was a 92/93 minute game a few years back has turned in 120+mins, Neville forensically ripping into every tackle/challenge to give his 5 Penarth worth, No doubt there was more after the game had finished with that scouser giving his opinion...I was off to bed, Some people like to see this...I don't, Why would I want some ex footballer telling me what I've just witnessed.

VAR and those that operate it are killing the game...imo

It was ridiculous. And the problem is, the more scrutiny they come under, the more decisions they will micro analyse. Far too many on field decisons were checked yesterday. I agree with Postecoglu, you will soon end up with matches being controlled from a person miles away watching it on a screen, all the while the authority of the ref is rapidily diminished. In all of that, they completely ignored Sterling diving!

Why would you as a ref make a big decison now? Horrible.

13 minutes ago, maydrakin said:

The issue is if he doesn’t start well and the crowd becomes toxic (regardless of whether it is directly towards Brown or the team in general), it could have a detrimental effect on his confidence and, ergo, his confidence.

I’m all for having Brown, Robinson and Radcliffe on the bench, but we have to then let them take their chance rather than just throwing them into the fire…

Can they offer more than Collins and Smith do currently? In my opinion they are only playing because they have experience, not because they are actually playing well. 

They won't get that chance whilst the manager favours seasoned pros. But this team needs pace, energy, the willingness to try things that youth brings.

The last headline young performance was Sibley under Cocu. He had experience he could have chose but he trusted him. Go back to Nigel trusting Bennett, who was so close to a dream debut goal.

I am just bored of seeing the same old players making zero impact in matches. If the young player gets it wrong, then comes the man management skills of the manager, in which Warne is meant to excel.

2 hours ago, Srg said:

Youth. 

One of the huge issues with our team is a lack of pace and athleticism. We lack it in so many areas, even NML who is quick is getting on in his career so can’t maintain for 90mins. Warne preached pressing in pre-season and we basically never do it because of this. It’s also why Thompson looked so good before he got injured, all because he could run. 

So, couple this issue with the fact fans are generally a lot, lot more patient with youth players than the same old retreads getting yet another try at it. Can we not see Darren Robinson instead of Korey Smith, for example? It was completely ludicrous that Brown had to wait to come on midweek to see Collins trot around for a bit. 

It is one of the great PW contradictions. If you believe the interviews, it was Barker who was pushing to get Brown on earlier against Northampton.

Our lack of pace does lead to us being horribly exposed at times. 

9 minutes ago, S8TY said:

It really wasn't same old same old, you must be watching a different game to me,,,what was same old was our wasteful woeful finishing especially Barks who I still think gives us something. playing like we did today all we need is a good striker also Washington is a good foil for a good striker 

I think today we saw exactly what Warne wants. Get it out wide quickly, get the crosses in. More direct without aimless hoofing. He doesn't want it through the middle.

I thought we could have showed a bit more creativity, maybe tried something different but the players stuck at it. Some poor shots and crosses denied a bigger score.

I haven't seen anything lately that convinces me otherwise that if we do get promoted it will be due to the strength of our players, rather than anything tactical.

The true test of where we are is Barnsley. 

Well, listening to his pre match, he still wants us to get it out wide quicker as it got bogged down in the middle too often for his liking.

Good, bad, who knows!

Just now, CongletonRam said:

Nope. The majority I talk are behind Warne as, aside from the turgid football, they can see the bigger picture and they recognise just what a difficult ob he has when you go through the many extenuating circumstances.

He needs and will be given time. I'll say it again, a few disgruntled fans won't change Clowes mind. He gave Warne a 4-year contract for a reason.

Extenuating circumstances?

Oh come off it. The above applied to Cocu, Rooney, Rosenior. Warne is managing in the best situation since Lampard. Probably even before then.

This is an ideal situation for any manager to build the club the way he wants. Are fans really in the wrong for expecting much better from a supposed promotion expert in this league.

This should be an exciting time for the club and we are on the brink of losing all the goodwill. There are many posters on here whose footballing opinion I greatly respect and I don't see much love for Warne. 

Clowes gave the 4 year contract because he believed Warne would grow with the club, that Warne would step up. The only thing I see is a man struggling to handle the situation, the size of club, the pressure the expectation brings. I don't believe he can shake the shackles of being an underdog.