Match Thread: vs Northampton Town (a)

[Srg]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

Collins? A bit unfair in my view 

Is it? He lost his place entirely much of last season. Regained it this season due to recruitment failure. Did a job, but if he's touching £12k a week then that is still not value for money over other strikers in this league.

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, DRBee said:

Bet Robins Championship stats are better than Warnes. 

Robbins took over at Coventry in March 2017.

It took him 2 seasons to get them promoted out of league one and in his first year in the Championship Coventry finished 16th (12th the following season).

If you insist on doing a comparison then it's probably better to see how we do next season (assuming we get promoted this year) as the managers trajectories with their current clubs will be a bit more comparable: Similar sized clubs, both clubs recovering from financial difficulties, both clubs promoted from league one after two seasons (hopefully). 

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, jimtastic56 said:

Gayle is going to cost us about £40k per game due to injury . Will David Clowes continue to accept losing money year on year ? Our  “Crown Jewels” , or Fab 4 have been dismantled (Knight , Bird, Sibley, Cashin). Apart from Cash who has shown incredible loyalty, and lost his Ireland place. Sibley looks like walking just leaving Cashin. Not much left to sell. 

Is Gayle really on £40K per game or even per week? It seems unlikely given his injury record and his last contract was terminated early.

[jimtastic56]

1 hour ago, Foreveram said:

Stop talking b*******, Cashin has never played for Ireland and is now too old for the under 21s.

Don’t think it is B S that Cashin has been loyal. He is older than the lad that went from Norwich to Florists and is now playing for the Republic. Cashin is just as good and if he was in a Prem squad he would be a full international by now. 

[Foreveram]

5 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

Don’t think it is B S that Cashin has been loyal. He is older than the lad that went from Norwich to Florists and is now playing for the Republic. Cashin is just as good and if he was in a Prem squad he would be a full international by now. 

And now you’re back tracking, how can he lose something he’s never had 🤷‍♂️

[Crewton]

40 minutes ago, Srg said:

Is it? He lost his place entirely much of last season. Regained it this season due to recruitment failure. Did a job, but if he's touching £12k a week then that is still not value for money over other strikers in this league.

His key contributions (goals + assists) per minute played are only significantly bettered by May, Cole, Martin, Rhodes, Hoskins, Poku, Lane and Stockley. His figure is roughly the same as Dion Charles. So I think classing him as poor value for money is extremely harsh, though I would say he does have games where he just doesn't shine, but that sometimes is due to the service he gets.

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, Foreveram said:

Stop talking b*******, Cashin has never played for Ireland and is now too old for the under 21s.

 

21 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

Don’t think it is B S that Cashin has been loyal. He is older than the lad that went from Norwich to Florists and is now playing for the Republic. Cashin is just as good and if he was in a Prem squad he would be a full international by now. 

I don't think he meant b******* mate.

I took it as a full on b*******, but I could be wrong!  👀

[Foreveram]

15 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

 

I don't think he meant b******* mate.

I took it as a full on b*******, but I could be wrong!  👀

Good enough for the sex pistols 😉

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, jimtastic56 said:

Gayle is going to cost us about £40k per game due to injury . Will David Clowes continue to accept losing money year on year ? Our  “Crown Jewels” , or Fab 4 have been dismantled (Knight , Bird, Sibley, Cashin). Apart from Cash who has shown incredible loyalty, and lost his Ireland place. Sibley looks like walking just leaving Cashin. Not much left to sell. 

Is he likely to be on £40k a game? Like others, I doubt it. Also, Gayle’s isn’t going to cost us £40k per game (or whatever the figure is) due to injury. The fact that he’s injured isn’t costing the club anymore - it’s just that we’re not getting any return for whatever we’re paying him. If anything, it’s the injuries to Washington, Waghorn and Collins that has cost us money (because we’ve had to bring in Gayle). 

[Srg]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

His key contributions (goals + assists) per minute played are only significantly bettered by May, Cole, Martin, Rhodes, Hoskins, Poku, Lane and Stockley. His figure is roughly the same as Dion Charles. So I think classing him as poor value for money is extremely harsh, though I would say he does have games where he just doesn't shine, but that sometimes is due to the service he gets.

But put some of those players in our team, who would be earning less, and I think you get (at worse) a similar output.

[Anag Ram]

League One is a tough old slog. 46 games, most of which are likely to be very physical.

With our budget we can afford either older players whose best days are behind them or bright prospects with a flaw (often injury-related).

No surprise then that some drop out due to injury. I think NML perhaps came back too soon after his foot injury.

Collins has done well to last as long as he has without injury.

The two Ws haven’t really featured much at all and have only briefly shown any spark. 

We aren’t the only team with injuries. Bolton, for example, have a load too. It’s that type of league.
 

[NOTSA74]

7 hours ago, S8TY said:

I think Robins is quite adaptable and seen his side a few times , definitely doing a great job in the Championship 

Does Robins still live in Allestree?

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Srg said:

But put some of those players in our team, who would be earning less, and I think you get (at worse) a similar output.

But which of them could we have actually signed?

Alfie May cost a fee and wanted to go to Charlton. Poku signed a 4 year contract for Boro in 2021 for "a substantial 6-figure fee" (BBC) and would have cost us allot more than that to sign. Dion Charles signed for Bolton when we were in Administration for £325,000. Devante Cole signed for Barnsley in summer 2021 when we were under a soft embargo in the Championship  - he'd have been out of our reach after Administration. Stockley went to Fleetwood last January for an undisclosed fee, Paddy Lane same to Portsmouth . Hoskins has been under contract at NTFC for 8 years continuously and they would have wanted a large fee for him too. Chris Martin probably liked the idea of staying in Bristol. Jordan Rhodes might well be on a bigger salary than Collins. 

I don't see the point of fantasising about strikers we couldn't have signed.

[angieram]

4 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Is he likely to be on £40k a game? Like others, I doubt it. Also, Gayle’s isn’t going to cost us £40k per game (or whatever the figure is) due to injury. The fact that he’s injured isn’t costing the club anymore - it’s just that we’re not getting any return for whatever we’re paying him. If anything, it’s the injuries to Washington, Waghorn and Collins that has cost us money (because we’ve had to bring in Gayle). 

I think that's what Jimtastic means. If he doesn't play again this season, and he's only played 6 times for us, he reckons that will be £40k per appearance.

This assumes his wages for the 5? months we have signed him for will be £240k in total. I've no idea about any of that, though.

[kevinhectoring]

9 hours ago, jimtastic56 said:

Don’t think it is B S that Cashin has been loyal. He is older than the lad that went from Norwich to Florists and is now playing for the Republic. Cashin is just as good and if he was in a Prem squad he would be a full international by now. 

Cashin surely wanted a lucrative move in Jan but it didn’t transpire. His form dipped significantly as the truth hit home. But he’s a trooper and he’s played well since then. If he was in a prem squad he’d be on the bench. He’s be richer but can’t see how that helps his international career 

[IlsonDerby]

12 hours ago, angieram said:

I think that's what Jimtastic means. If he doesn't play again this season, and he's only played 6 times for us, he reckons that will be £40k per appearance.

This assumes his wages for the 5? months we have signed him for will be £240k in total. I've no idea about any of that, though.

Don’t we have insurance against salaries when players sustain longer injuries? 
 

I’d love to know which injuries are covered and which aren’t if we do.  

 

@Owen87ITK any idea on this?

[jimtastic56]

14 hours ago, angieram said:

I think that's what Jimtastic means. If he doesn't play again this season, and he's only played 6 times for us, he reckons that will be £40k per appearance.

This assumes his wages for the 5? months we have signed him for will be £240k in total. I've no idea about any of that, though.

It was only guesswork , but we did take a massive gamble on the fitness of Gayle. He hasn’t played many minutes, however that goal v Reading could end up being priceless. Still think Sibley will score the goal that sends us up . I know he divides opinion but I would love him to stay .

[DRBee]

21 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Robbins took over at Coventry in March 2017.

It took him 2 seasons to get them promoted out of league one and in his first year in the Championship Coventry finished 16th (12th the following season).

If you insist on doing a comparison then it's probably better to see how we do next season (assuming we get promoted this year) as the managers trajectories with their current clubs will be a bit more comparable: Similar sized clubs, both clubs recovering from financial difficulties, both clubs promoted from league one after two seasons (hopefully). 

Crewtons post stated that Warnes career stats as manager were better than Robbins in terms of win rate. My post suggested a different , more relevant metric. Why should Warnes failures in the Championship be ignored? But your response reminds us that Robbins was able to keep his promoted side in the Championship, and quite successfully .. 

[Tamworthram]

2 minutes ago, DRBee said:

Crewtons post stated that Warnes career stats as manager were better than Robbins in terms of win rate. My post suggested a different , more relevant metric. Why should Warnes failures in the Championship be ignored? But your response reminds us that Robbins was able to keep his promoted side in the Championship, and quite successfully .. 

I didn't necessarily say you should ignore it. I'm just saying the similarities if we were to get promoted this season, are remarkable and perhaps of more value rather than how Warne did at Rotherham considering the differences in club size and the likely differences in ambition and backing between Coventry/Derby and Rotherham. Maybe Warne will keep us in the Championship and quite successfully🤷‍♂️ It wouldn't be the first time a manager has failed at one club but then gone on to be successful at another (and vice versa). I also highly doubt than anyone (you included) doing a comparison with Robbins really needed reminding of his track record. Otherwise, why make the comparison in the first place.

[Crewton]

14 minutes ago, DRBee said:

Crewtons post stated that Warnes career stats as manager were better than Robbins in terms of win rate. My post suggested a different , more relevant metric. Why should Warnes failures in the Championship be ignored? But your response reminds us that Robbins was able to keep his promoted side in the Championship, and quite successfully .. 

I said his win ratio was better, that Robins wasn't actually a "young manager" and pointed out that his notable success had come with a club enjoying much larger gate revenues and an uninterrupted 7 year stint in which to continually develop and evolve his team where transfers out were used positively in that process. Warne, by comparison, usually lost some of his best players after promotion, often on Bosmans, and the team was never strengthened for the task ahead.

Put it this way, 10 years into his managerial career, Mark Robins would never have appeared on a list of fans' picks for DCFC manager.