Match Thread: vs Northampton Town (a)

[G STAR RAM]

45 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Id suggest that post covid the market is completely different. Most transfers in league 1 happen with no money changing hands at all. The odd transfer fee paid by traditional championship clubs but we’d have our hands snapped off for NML, TB, CN, CE, KW, EA, JC at this level. 

The fact that all of them are ageing and have dropped down a level would seem to indicate to me that there was no big queue for their services. 

All decent at this level, but all still bargain basement signings by definition. 

[Sparkle]

14 minutes ago, S8TY said:

Ipswich have been brilliant this season after promotion from this league and yes have had time to build a better team and squad I think the worry is with some fans including myself is, even if PW did have the time I don't think his style/methods would be successful in the championship 

This sounds harsh but football can be , If PW got us promoted I would say thankyou for your efforts and come to an agreement to let him go as I think we need someone different in a higher league

It would be a mistake IMO if we let PW spend our tight budget in the championship on players who may well not suit a different manager and i don't see why we couldn't be a good side challenging for play offs if we were to use our academy and bring in some good young players with a couple of loanees and few old heads 

 Robins and Mckenna are good young forward thinking examples of good managers  who have come from lower down the leagues and I still think we'd be an attractive option for a good young coach/manager

 

 

 

Yep somehow get promotion this season and Warne goes back to Rotherham - Get no promotion and Warne goes back to Rotherham. Alternatively attendances will be missing 3-4000 each home game with Warne’s continued style of football 

[Crewton]

11 minutes ago, S8TY said:

Ipswich have been brilliant this season after promotion from this league and yes have had time to build a better team and squad I think the worry is with some fans including myself is, even if PW did have the time I don't think his style/methods would be successful in the championship 

This sounds harsh but football can be , If PW got us promoted I would say thankyou for your efforts and come to an agreement to let him go as I think we need someone different in a higher league

It would be a mistake IMO if we let PW spend our tight budget in the championship on players who may well not suit a different manager and i don't see why we couldn't be a good side challenging for play offs if we were to use our academy and bring in some good young players with a couple of loanees and few old heads 

 Robins and Mckenna are good young forward thinking examples of good managers  who have come from lower down the leagues and I still think we'd be an attractive option for a good young coach/manager

 

 

 

Robins is 4 years older than Warne and, until his current stint with Coventry, was the archetypal journeyman lower league manager without a single promotion to his name. He's undoubtedly doing a fantastic job with Coventry, but still has a lower career win % than Warne. 

[S8TY]

1 hour ago, IlsonDerby said:

Id suggest that post covid the market is completely different. Most transfers in league 1 happen with no money changing hands at all. The odd transfer fee paid by traditional championship clubs but we’d have our hands snapped off for NML, TB, CN, CE, KW, EA, JC at this level. 

Agree with you all of the players you mention maybe bargain bargain basement if signed by a   Championship club but they are not for L1 we have one of if not the best squad in our division I don't think any smaller clubs would have attracted them players to L1 

When Jagielka and CKR came in under Rooney in the Championship  i did think we were scraping the barrel with there age etc but both turned out to be really good signings and such a shame we didn't keep hold of Jagielka 

 

[Ghost of Clough]

11 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Bargain basement refers to the price paid for goods and them being cheap.

With all of out signings being freebies, I'd suggest they are all bargain basement.

I'd add that there is usually a reason players are available on a free, and it's probably reflected in our current injury list.

Let's pretend we don't have the highest first team wage bill in the league then? Our first team players are collectively on more than the entire wage bill for at least 18 clubs in this division.

Last season, we had a turnover of £20.443m and a SCMP of 42.0%, equating to £8.56m. This figure excludes first teamers such as Knight, Cashin, Sibley, Thompson and Rooney, so the true first team wage bill was higher than this (approx £9.5m?). We're expected to pay out similar (if not more) this season.

Based on the latest released accounts, only Charlton (£10.6m in 21/22), Bolton (10.2m in 21/22) and Barnsley (£9.3m in 22/23) had a total wage bill higher than our SCMP figure, and only 2 of them higher than the approximate first team wage bill. This season, Wigan's and Reading's will be lower than these figures, whilst Reading's is anyone's guess. Either way, there won't be more than 5 team with a total wage bill higher than our first team wage bill. 

Hardly bargain basement in terms of wages.

[Crewton]

15 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Let's pretend we don't have the highest first team wage bill in the league then? Our first team players are collectively on more than the entire wage bill for at least 18 clubs in this division.

Last season, we had a turnover of £20.443m and a SCMP of 42.0%, equating to £8.56m. This figure excludes first teamers such as Knight, Cashin, Sibley, Thompson and Rooney, so the true first team wage bill was higher than this (approx £9.5m?). We're expected to pay out similar (if not more) this season.

Based on the latest released accounts, only Charlton (£10.6m in 21/22), Bolton (10.2m in 21/22) and Barnsley (£9.3m in 22/23) had a total wage bill higher than our SCMP figure, and only 2 of them higher than the approximate first team wage bill. This season, Wigan's and Reading's will be lower than these figures, whilst Reading's is anyone's guess. Either way, there won't be more than 5 team with a total wage bill higher than our first team wage bill. 

Hardly bargain basement in terms of wages.

We're doing quite well to be in 2nd place then?

[Ghost of Clough]

Just now, Crewton said:

We're doing quite well to be in 2nd place then?

Our total club wage bill dwarfs everyone else's, so I think it's fair to say we aren't getting the most out of our expenditure. 

I also expect us to have the highest first team wage bill in the league, although it will be close to a couple others (such as Bolton). Top 3 is certainly where we should be IMO.

[Srg]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Our total club wage bill dwarfs everyone else's, so I think it's fair to say we aren't getting the most out of our expenditure. 

I also expect us to have the highest first team wage bill in the league, although it will be close to a couple others (such as Bolton). Top 3 is certainly where we should be IMO.

We're clearly not getting the output we should be for the wages we're paying to some of the older squad members. We know we were in dire straits 2 years ago, so it's no indictment on anyone. However, Hourihane, Smith, Collins and even Barkhuizen are not really living up to the money they must be earning over more productive League One players. I'm sure Nelson must be on a good amount but he's proven worth it... Bradley, not so much.

[S8TY]

17 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Robins is 4 years older than Warne and, until his current stint with Coventry, was the archetypal journeyman lower league manager without a single promotion to his name. He's undoubtedly doing a fantastic job with Coventry, but still has a lower career win % than Warne. 

I think Robins is quite adaptable and seen his side a few times , definitely doing a great job in the Championship 

[DRBee]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

Robins is 4 years older than Warne and, until his current stint with Coventry, was the archetypal journeyman lower league manager without a single promotion to his name. He's undoubtedly doing a fantastic job with Coventry, but still has a lower career win % than Warne. 

Bet Robins Championship stats are better than Warnes. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, Sparkle said:

Yep somehow get promotion this season and Warne goes back to Rotherham - Get no promotion and Warne goes back to Rotherham. Alternatively attendances will be missing 3-4000 each home game with Warne’s continued style of football 

It's been two years with warne and attendances are outstanding...what are you factually basing your drop in attendances on?

 

[Crewton]

10 minutes ago, DRBee said:

Bet Robins Championship stats are better than Warnes. 

With a much bigger club, pulling in more than twice the number of fans every home game, having been allowed to reinvest the proceeds of significant player sales. 

I'm not arguing that Robins' team don't play more attractive football than Warne's, or that Robins' isn't currently outperforming a number of better funded managers. But he's been allowed to build a squad and regularly upgrade it for 7 years, even after being relegated in his first season. Before that, his best attribute was helping teams avoid relegation. His record wasn't bad, just unremarkable. It'll be interesting to see how he gets on if he ever leaves Coventry.

[Ghost of Clough]

35 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

It's been two years with warne and attendances are outstanding...what are you factually basing your drop in attendances on?

 

A similar trajectory to what we had under Clough? 2 seasons in the 29,000s, followed by a 6k drop over the next 3 seasons before picking up again under Mac I. 

[Archied]

2 hours ago, Srg said:

We're clearly not getting the output we should be for the wages we're paying to some of the older squad members. We know we were in dire straits 2 years ago, so it's no indictment on anyone. However, Hourihane, Smith, Collins and even Barkhuizen are not really living up to the money they must be earning over more productive League One players. I'm sure Nelson must be on a good amount but he's proven worth it... Bradley, not so much.

Collins? A bit unfair in my view 

[Comrade 86]

9 minutes ago, Archied said:

Collins? You mad bro?!?!?!?

FTFY

[jimtastic56]

2 hours ago, Srg said:

We're clearly not getting the output we should be for the wages we're paying to some of the older squad members. We know we were in dire straits 2 years ago, so it's no indictment on anyone. However, Hourihane, Smith, Collins and even Barkhuizen are not really living up to the money they must be earning over more productive League One players. I'm sure Nelson must be on a good amount but he's proven worth it... Bradley, not so much.

Gayle is going to cost us about £40k per game due to injury . Will David Clowes continue to accept losing money year on year ? Our  “Crown Jewels” , or Fab 4 have been dismantled (Knight , Bird, Sibley, Cashin). Apart from Cash who has shown incredible loyalty, and lost his Ireland place. Sibley looks like walking just leaving Cashin. Not much left to sell. 

[Foreveram]

24 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

Gayle is going to cost us about £40k per game due to injury . Will David Clowes continue to accept losing money year on year ? Our  “Crown Jewels” , or Fab 4 have been dismantled (Knight , Bird, Sibley, Cashin). Apart from Cash who has shown incredible loyalty, and lost his Ireland place. Sibley looks like walking just leaving Cashin. Not much left to sell. 

Stop talking b*******, Cashin has never played for Ireland and is now too old for the under 21s.

[S8TY]

57 minutes ago, Crewton said:

With a much bigger club, pulling in more than twice the number of fans every home game, having been allowed to reinvest the proceeds of significant player sales. 

I'm not arguing that Robins' team don't play more attractive football than Warne's, or that Robins' isn't currently outperforming a number of better funded managers. But he's been allowed to build a squad and regularly upgrade it for 7 years, even after being relegated in his first season. Before that, his best attribute was helping teams avoid relegation. His record wasn't bad, just unremarkable. It'll be interesting to see how he gets on if he ever leaves Coventry.

I said this only last week to someone that Robins will be looked at by bigger clubs maybe even prem clubs but he won't be given the time he needs to build , he reminds me of Nigel Clough in some ways , there is no doubting both managers abilities but it doesn't happen quickly as they both need time to build there own style

Clough for me signed some excellent players ( not all of them but who gets 100 per cent right ) Brayford,Barker,Coutts,Martin,Buxton,Bryson to name a few and Mac definitely made us perform better but only because of mainly Cloughs players who could pass and control with ease , Buxton really shocked me how effective he became but both need time , I don't see PW unfortunately building much here so far but if he gets us out of L1 then I'll take whatever...but never long term for us IMO even though I really like Warne as person 

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Let's pretend we don't have the highest first team wage bill in the league then? Our first team players are collectively on more than the entire wage bill for at least 18 clubs in this division.

Last season, we had a turnover of £20.443m and a SCMP of 42.0%, equating to £8.56m. This figure excludes first teamers such as Knight, Cashin, Sibley, Thompson and Rooney, so the true first team wage bill was higher than this (approx £9.5m?). We're expected to pay out similar (if not more) this season.

Based on the latest released accounts, only Charlton (£10.6m in 21/22), Bolton (10.2m in 21/22) and Barnsley (£9.3m in 22/23) had a total wage bill higher than our SCMP figure, and only 2 of them higher than the approximate first team wage bill. This season, Wigan's and Reading's will be lower than these figures, whilst Reading's is anyone's guess. Either way, there won't be more than 5 team with a total wage bill higher than our first team wage bill. 

Hardly bargain basement in terms of wages.

Players can usually tend to command a higher wage when there is no transfer fee involved.

As stated, most of our freebies are in the twilight of their careers and, as such, come with added risks attached.

Off the top of my head there is only Nelson who has not had any period on the sideline with injury.

 

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, jimtastic56 said:

Gayle is going to cost us about £40k per game due to injury . Will David Clowes continue to accept losing money year on year ? Our  “Crown Jewels” , or Fab 4 have been dismantled (Knight , Bird, Sibley, Cashin). Apart from Cash who has shown incredible loyalty, and lost his Ireland place. Sibley looks like walking just leaving Cashin. Not much left to sell. 

Sibley looks like walking based on?