Paul Warne

[ram59]

Was there all this negativity when Arthur Cox's team scraped into third place in this league courtesy of a dodgy penalty in 1985/86?

Fortunately, that was the last season before the play offs were introduced, who knows what would have happened had we have to have gone through that process?

Edited April 16 by ram59
grammar

[sage]

Instead of belittling people who aren't fans of Warne or confident in him in the long term, why not try debating the points they make.

 

[BOB BIGGS]

4 hours ago, NottsRam said:

Trust me, if we are around bottom 4 or 5 it will be well before Xmas that the negatives start!

First half of first match I’d guess😎 

[Mick Brolly]

11 minutes ago, sage said:

Instead of belittling people who aren't fans of Warne or confident in him in the long term, why not try debating the points they make.

 

Some don't like and never will like Warne looks like he might achieve this season so they start looking long term to criticise him .

[BOB BIGGS]

2 hours ago, maxjam said:

Its utterly ridiculous. 

We've been crying out for stability for years, the moment we start actually doing well and potentially finishing in the automatic promotion positions for the first time in god knows how long, some fans are wanting PW sacked and are happy to take a punt on whoever - could be better, could be worse - may come in next.

If it was them lot up the road, I'd be falling over laughing.

That’s the main point. Who is this mythical manager who will solve all ills? If he’s so good, why would he join us? Presumably, he’s in League 1 or 2 or is a present Championship manager who wants to stake his reputation on coming here and building a team? Or is it a manager currently working on Europe? 

Or….don’t these people know and just want to see the back of PW at any price and with any outcome? I can’t think who would want that though. 😎

[CBX1985]

5 minutes ago, sage said:

Instead of belittling people who aren't fans of Warne or confident in him in the long term, why not try debating the points they make.

 

The points they make are intangible and intangibles are hard to debate, but it doesn't make them right (or indeed wrong).  We have no evidence of what a Warne Championship season with Derby would be like - and Rotherham are hardly thriving without him.

There are issues with Warne's management, of course there are, but we have it in our hands to get promoted - and are two wins away.  The idea this is the time to debate is absurd.  It is like complaining at a lottery win because the Euromillions was the night before and would have netted far more.  

Never let the best be the enemy of the good" - Aristotle

[Archied]

52 minutes ago, sage said:

Instead of belittling people who aren't fans of Warne or confident in him in the long term, why not try debating the points they make.

 

I did

A new direction? ,,, the current direction is Up 

invest a chunk in getting rid of warne and his team and the rest on players to suit a new manager who if he doesn’t cut it we will be entrenched in how he wanted us to play,

polarising ? Liam was polarising , I personally didn’t enjoy his style and where I sit heard far more moaning and groaning during games than under warne 🤷🏻‍♂️

[sage]

43 minutes ago, CBX1985 said:

The points they make are intangible and intangibles are hard to debate, but it doesn't make them right (or indeed wrong).  We have no evidence of what a Warne Championship season with Derby would be like - and Rotherham are hardly thriving without him.

There are issues with Warne's management, of course there are, but we have it in our hands to get promoted - and are two wins away.  The idea this is the time to debate is absurd.  It is like complaining at a lottery win because the Euromillions was the night before and would have netted far more.  

Never let the best be the enemy of the good" - Aristotle

It's never been the time. The belittling has carried on all season.

When we won, it was look at the table. When we lost a few, it was jumping on the bandwagon.

As long as people are constructive, anything can be debated at any time. Not you, but many just try and shut debate down, it's been happening for a long time.

 

[eddielewis]

I think we've seen enough Championship football to know that largely the teams that linger near the bottom has some form of football or financial instability. Just take this season for example, the bottom 13 teams have had a change in manager during this season, some with multiple changes. This idea of sacking Warne as soon as he's promoted the club just screams Chansiri.

The only goal should hopefully we get promoted will be to stay up and Warne more than deserves his shot and dare I say more than achievable when there's plenty of basketcase clubs in that league who will spend most of the summer in a manager recruitment rat race.

[Comrade 86]

[FlyBritishMidland]

2 hours ago, ram59 said:

Was there all this negativity when Arthur Cox's team scraped into third place in this league courtesy of a dodgy penalty in 1985/86?

Fortunately, that was the last season before the play offs were introduced, who knows what would have happened had we have to have gone through that process?

I don’t remember there being.  If there was, he wouldn’t have made it past the 1st season, finish 4 places off a promotion spot.  Plus, players were signed from the top division.  And there’s some who think we have a good squad now!!

There are some reasons for that though.  In general, I don’t think there was as much of a “want it now” society.  People were prepared to wait for things.  There wasn’t the saturation with football that there is now.  Back then, you had cup finals and Internationals as the only live football and MOTD and the like was only 3 games, including lower league. Now, everyone is exposed to Man City, Liverpool, Barcelona, etc and it raises expectations.  And places like this didn’t exist.  There was no forums or Twitter for people to say how rubbish the line up is the second it’s released or comment during the game.

Edited April 16 by FlyBritishMidland

[sage]

12 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

I don’t remember there being.  If there was, he wouldn’t have made it past the 1st season, finish 4 places off a promotion spot.  Plus, players were signed from the top division.  And there’s some who think we have a good squad now!!

There are some reasons for that though.  In general, I don’t think there was as much of a “want it now” society.  People were prepared to wait for things.  There wasn’t the saturation with football that there is now.  Back then, you had cup finals and Internationals as the only live football and MOTD and the like was only 3 games, including lower league. Now, everyone is exposed to Man City, Liverpool, Barcelona, etc and it raises expectations.  And places like this didn’t exist.  There was no forums or Twitter for people to say how rubbish the line up is the second it’s released or comment during the game.

Or we could debate the differences between how the 2 managers have set about the task.

But no, fetch the pitchfork 

[CBX1985]

2 hours ago, sage said:

It's never been the time. The belittling has carried on all season.

When we won, it was look at the table. When we lost a few, it was jumping on the bandwagon.

As long as people are constructive, anything can be debated at any time. Not you, but many just try and shut debate down, it's been happening for a long time.

 

For good or ill, football is a results business.  I nearly lost faith following the Crewe defeat in November (as I was nervous of the tactics), but a winning run put an end to that.

Warne, should we gain promotion, will then have a two year contract playing in the Championship.  I think, based on statements by Clowes, he would have a goal of keeping us up and everything else being a bonus.  Failure there, and I think he would be in deep trouble.

You ask about when to have the debate.  Simple; it becomes live when any of the following happen:

a) if we fail to go up - the debate starts immediately on us being knocked out the pay offs

b) we go up, he get's a budget but it doesn't work and he offers no constructive approach to remedy the issue (effectively we are slow walking to relegation) - but this is next January/Feb at the earliest

c) we are re-relegated, under all the circumstances.

 

My point is that he is going for set goals, which i contend some are confusing for tactics.  A strategy is: we get up, stay up and then, and only then, truly look to kick on.  If he fails at any of these strategy, there are arguments the strategy has not worked.  

Tactics are how you get there.

The tactics will change with the opposition, let alone the league.  The players will improve as TV money will allow a better standard. The demands and the style of play will change.  

Our current tactics probably will not work.  Warne's job will be to find the players and the tactics to meet his objective.  We cannot judge him on a standard, when we demand he meets a completely different standard that is wholly divergent: we demand he gets results to win promotion, but in a less skilful league of flying tackles where fancy football gets you loads of possession and no end result (ala LR).  We then criticise the lack of skill.  Therefore, he has to win the promotion in front of him like beating the team in front of you.  He is plainly succeeding here.

We have no idea what a Warne side in the Championship will look like, never mind the tactics he would deploy - and nor do you nor anyone on this site.  Rotherham gives a guide, but they did not have our resources and only tell you so much.  The fact is, if he succeeds he has earned his shot

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 16 by CBX1985

[sage]

2 minutes ago, CBX1985 said:

For good or ill, football is a results business.  I nearly lost faith following the Crewe defeat in November (as I was nervous of the tactics), but a winning run put an end to that.

Warne, should we gain promotion, will then have a two year contract playing in the Championship.  I think, based on statements by Clowes, he would have a goal of keeping us up and everything else being a bonus.  Failure there, and I think he would be in deep trouble.

You ask about when to have the debate.  Simple; it becomes live when any of the following happen:

a) if we fail to go up - the debate starts immediately on us being knocked out the pay offs

b) we go up, he get's a budget but it doesn't work and he offers no constructive approach to remedy the issue (effectively we are slow walking to relegation) - but this is next January/Feb at the earliest

c) we are re-relegated, under all the circumstances.

 

 

I didn't ask when we can have a debate. I made the point that fans are entitled to debate anything appropriate at any time. You appear to be now saying we can have a debate but not until you say so. 

[CBX1985]

4 minutes ago, sage said:

I didn't ask when we can have a debate. I made the point that fans are entitled to debate anything appropriate at any time. You appear to be now saying we can have a debate but not until you say so. 

Can and should are different things.  You can debate anything at anytime.  It doesn't mean you should.

It comes across to me as pure Monty Python to have a debate about sacking a manager two games out from a clubs greatest achievement since 2006/07. 

  

[Wolfie20]

20 hours ago, Eddie said:

If we sack a manager who is doing well, we would be - and would be seen to be - a basket case.

We'd be Birmingham Mk2

[Jourdan]

The thing is, how we fare in the Championship (should we get there) doesn’t depend solely on Warne.

It will require Clowes, Pearce, Hale, Thomas, Warne and all the other key people at the club working well to get things right.

The common denominator between teams that go up and prosper and teams that fall flat is not style of play. It’s how the club operates, the resources they have to be able to improve, and how they work strategically to achieve that.

Many think Warne will be the weak link moving forward, but if he has a team of good football people around him and the backing of the board, maybe collectively we’ll be stronger and more switched on than people assume.

 

 

[Eddie]

9 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I think bobble ball is better anyway. And so does Mr. Hat.

[Eddie]

8 hours ago, NottsRam said:

Trust me, if we are around bottom 4 or 5 it will be well before Xmas that the negatives start!

Start?

They've never stopped.

[sage]

37 minutes ago, CBX1985 said:

Can and should are different things.  You can debate anything at anytime.  It doesn't mean you should.

It comes across to me as pure Monty Python to have a debate about sacking a manager two games out from a clubs greatest achievement since 2006/07. 

  

Why? If someone has a legitimate point to make, let them make it. I don't see why posters should try and control what other people want to talk about. 

Edited April 16 by sage