Derby vs Leyton Orient

[Foreveram]

8 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Been out and about all day. Another good win. I will keep not watching whilst this winning run goes on (even with 3 free Sky games coming up soon I read). Come on you lovely Rams!

Your non support has been such a boost 😂

[Caerphilly Ram]

12 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I would still sign another winger. We currently only have Mendez-Laing, and Barkhuizen as natural wingers, with Sibley kept central

I guess someone of a similar ilk only left sided (if there are viable options out there) makes sense. To cover anywhere down the left side and provide balance. Sibley then gets the central gig as you say, which may be even more necessary should Bird leave 

[Anag Ram]

9 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Been out and about all day. Another good win. I will keep not watching whilst this winning run goes on (even with 3 free Sky games coming up soon I read). Come on you lovely Rams!

That’s the kind of selflessness we’ve come to expect from you. Or am I thinking of the Dalai Lama?

[Chester40]

14 hours ago, ossieram said:

How does 3-0 flatter us?

It could quite easily have been 5 or 6.

As someone who took on a fair amount of criticism for arguing we weren't playing that badly a few weeks ago...I thought we were pretty poor first half tbh.

We constantly gave the ball away and were probably the scrappier of the two teams.

One moment of magic out of nowhere gave us the lead. Orient missed a couple of good chances and so did Collins. 

So imo we were fairly fortunate to be in the lead. A stupid red card really put them in the cart and a sweeping move a minute into the 2nd half suddenly gave us a comfortable situation.

I didn't think we shut them out as well as we could and they alnost got back into it.  They eventually tired and over committed and we then could have scored 4 or 5.

So a strange game really. We could have won even more easily but at times we played quite averagely and all the big moments went our way.

Just as a few weeks ago I was saying we weren't that bad, I'm saying yesterday we weren't that amazing. Little moments are going our way more and we are moving into a great position with more in the tank. 

We can play much better than yesterday - and probably will do and not win, that's football. 

[Srg]

27 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I would still sign another winger. We currently only have Mendez-Laing, and Barkhuizen as natural wingers, with Sibley kept central

Pace is a must, someone who can scare the opposition. We are currently in serious trouble if NML misses any time. 

[Mucker1884]

28 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

No. Clear red card. The guy knew what he was doing and it was an intentional smash 💥 into Collo’s face. Good spot by 4th official and credit where it’s due. 

Not sure it was clear... at the time, that is?
Comments on here immediately following the incident (presumably by those watching on TV?) seemed to heavily suggest we were fortunate.
The main TV angle was apparently not the most conclusive (for this particular and specific incident)?
I hear the Rams TV guys (and RD?) weren't convinced... initially.
By all accounts, it was given on the strength of what the 4th official saw, not what the ref saw?

It appears it only became "clear" (To Joe Public et al) with the intervention of the 4th official, other camera angles being aired, replays, and 20-20 hindsight.

 

I could be wrong... only seen the one snippet on here.  🐏

[Sussex Ram]

Having watched the extended highlights back, a few comments to stir the pot.

Those saying Sibley could/should have laid in Max Bird instead of shooting (and Paul Warne said so in his post match interview), I disagree. When Sibley gets the ball, Bird slows down and doesn’t bomb forward- or turn his head/scan to see their left back moving over fast to cover. A sign to me that Bird isn’t a natural 10. If Sibley releases to Bird there, a goal is very unlikely so I think it’s the right decision. Can’t we just give Sibley credit for a well taken goal?

It’s a red card. 3:55 of the RamsTV highlights. You only get a 4 second snippet of the act, so eyes peeled, but the defender does sneak an elbow and (unbelievably) catches Collins flush, despite not being able to see exactly where JC was behind him. 

Those questioning the triple change: personnel wise it seemed like for like rather than defensively minded, with Nelson at full back to replace Ward. At 2-0 they have to press forward, so I am guessing the tactic was to soak that up and counter, with fresh pace of TJJ and Barkz, and NML too. It worked! Almost worked twice (how funny was it to see Bradley among the charge in that final chance?! He looked like he just joined in a run with the lads, no idea where he was going 😂 ). Sometimes inviting pressure late in games backfires, and it can make the fans nervous, but with a two goal cushion you can afford one slip up and it creates chances to kill the game on the break.

James Collins was inches away from two goals today, but fine margins make all the difference- both to the result, and people’s perception of him on this forum. I saw a post from Derby Retweets that said, across English domestic competition, only three players have scored more goals than James Collins since he started his career in 2009/10. Thats Harry Kane (251), Jordan Rhodes (226) and Sergio Aguero (217) all better than JC’s 202. Billy Sharp with 190 and Charlie Austin with 188, for reference. Not bad company… and proof that he DOES score goals. As well as work hard, gets in good positions (mostly) and- crucially- he stays fit. With Wash, Wags And TJJ all either recently or currently injured, I think people simply don’t give JC enough credit. I’m not saying he’s a world beater, and he does miss chances- but he brings a lot to this team in League One.

As soon as the third went in, Warne should have pulled NML for Brown. That’s a very small criticism for Warne after a great run of results, some sound team selections in the face of injury troubles, some slightly better subs, and better tactical play. This is where our squad depth is starting to show and will hopefully separate us from the pack as injuries and suspensions thicken over the busy Christmas period.

I didn’t know B4 personally, but after 5 league wins on the spin I can’t help but think about what he’d be posting on here today. We should enjoy this while it’s good. And hope it stays good.

[Ghost of Clough]

15 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I guess someone of a similar ilk only left sided (if there are viable options out there) makes sense. To cover anywhere down the left side and provide balance. Sibley then gets the central gig as you say, which may be even more necessary should Bird leave 

It's a tricky one as any permanent signing would have to fit in the intended formation next season - will Warne want to stick with wingers, or continue down the 3412 system he wanted to use this season? 

Either way, with the form Mendez-Laing is showing since moving to the left (6 goals and 3 assists in i games), I would rather focus on the right. Barkhuizen being backup on the left, and Wilson competing with the new signing on the right.

[G STAR RAM]

17 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

As someone who took on a fair amount of criticism for arguing we weren't playing that badly a few weeks ago...I thought we were pretty poor first half tbh.

We constantly gave the ball away and were probably the scrappier of the two teams.

One moment of magic out of nowhere gave us the lead. Orient missed a couple of good chances and so did Collins. 

So imo we were fairly fortunate to be in the lead. A stupid red card really put them in the cart and a sweeping move a minute into the 2nd half suddenly gave us a comfortable situation.

I didn't think we shut them out as well as we could and they alnost got back into it.  They eventually tired and over committed and we then could have scored 4 or 5.

So a strange game really. We could have won even more easily but at times we played quite averagely and all the big moments went our way.

Just as a few weeks ago I was saying we weren't that bad, I'm saying yesterday we weren't that amazing. Little moments are going our way more and we are moving into a great position with more in the tank. 

We can play much better than yesterday - and probably will do and not win, that's football. 

Agreed. We were very sloppy first half, giving away possession very cheaply on so many occasions.

Although the goal was a moment of magic, probably worth noting that we did have an overload and either Bird or NML had Sibley seen what, 9 times out of 10, would have been the better option. Back to the original point, think it just shows how little attention people actually pay to the intricacies of matches when you are comfortably winning them. Me included. 

[Ellafella]

6 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Not sure it was clear... at the time, that is?
Comments on here immediately following the incident (presumably by those watching on TV?) seemed to heavily suggest we were fortunate.
The main TV angle was apparently not the most conclusive (for this particular and specific incident)?
I hear the Rams TV guys (and RD?) weren't convinced... initially.
By all accounts, it was given on the strength of what the 4th official saw, not what the ref saw?

It appears it only became "clear" (To Joe Public et al) with the intervention of the 4th official, other camera angles being aired, replays, and 20-20 hindsight.

 

I could be wrong... only seen the one snippet on here.  🐏

If you don’t see something it isn’t clear. If you see it, it’s clear. Stop trying to split hairs @Mucker1884. The sending off was not fortunate.  It was a deliberate elbow to Collo’s face - the sort of elbow that can break your nose or teeth. It was serious foul play and a straight red. No question. 

[G STAR RAM]

10 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Not sure it was clear... at the time, that is?
Comments on here immediately following the incident (presumably by those watching on TV?) seemed to heavily suggest we were fortunate.
The main TV angle was apparently not the most conclusive (for this particular and specific incident)?
I hear the Rams TV guys (and RD?) weren't convinced... initially.
By all accounts, it was given on the strength of what the 4th official saw, not what the ref saw?

It appears it only became "clear" (To Joe Public et al) with the intervention of the 4th official, other camera angles being aired, replays, and 20-20 hindsight.

 

I could be wrong... only seen the one snippet on here.  🐏

I think any team would be rightly aggrieved had none of the 4 match officials have seen an incident so close to the ball.

[Crewton]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Id suggest you search out the footage of a different angle.

Collins was lucky to still have any teeth left.

I think the "luck" came with having an official present who saw it and didn't ignore it. We've had some appalling decisions and non-decisions go against us in this division that it's always a surprise when we get a correct one that benefits us.

[MadAmster]

11 hours ago, MickD said:

Louie for Prime Minister?

Never thought about it but it's likely he couldn't do a worse job than the last 5 incumbents...

[Carnero]

Anyone not sure whether it was a red card or not should watch the Derby Debrief on Rams TV, they show an angle from higher in the gantry that shows it was a clear elbow swung into Collins face, it was pretty disgraceful from their player really, reminiscent of Wimbledon's Crazy Gang with Vinnie Jones, Fash The Bash, et al.

[IlsonDerby]

Bored shitless of reading criticisms of Collins. Bloke puts absolutely everything into every game and he’s top goalscorer for the 5th best side in the division over the last 19 games so he obviously knows where the net is. 
 

Because he doesn’t have the technical ability of McG or Martin his efforts seem somewhat less impressive. 
 

Im telling you now McG missed plenty of chances last season - some a lot easier than those Collins missed yesterday. This isn’t a criticism of McG either - just an acknowledgment that our best player last year was also only human and plying his trade in league 1 for a reason. Same as Collins.

Edited December 10, 2023 by IlsonDerby

[MadAmster]

5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I think any team would be rightly aggrieved had none of the 4 match officials have seen an incident so close to the ball.

Surely, at least one of them saw "something" or the card wouldn't have been given? Had none seen it, nothing would have been given.

Barks and OB on #RamsTV saw an overhead view and that, they said, showed a definite elbow and that red card was justified.

[Wolfie20]

5 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Never thought about it but it's likely he couldn't do a worse job than the last 7 incumbents...

FTFY

[Chester40]

5 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Bored shitless of reading criticisms of Collins. Bloke puts absolutely everything into every game and he’s top goalscorer for the 5th best side in the division over the last 19 games so he obviously knows where the net is. 
 

Because he doesn’t have the technical ability of McG or Martin his efforts seem somewhat less impressive. 
 

Im telling you now McG missed plenty of chances last season - some a lot easier than those Collins missed yesterday. 

He had a decent game yesterday.  Playing much better recently in general. He did miss a very good chance but he's playing that role of a battering ram so much more effectively and confidently.

Seems like the plan wasnt working so well earlier in the season but now it is ie first half we seem to use him as a hard worker, winner of free kicks, bothering defenders etc. Second half we use the options to take the game more by the scruff of the neck.

Without NML - and now Wilson increasingly - I still think we will struggle to take that control though. Either JJ needs to be able to used more or we need more width/invention from the transfer window.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Chester40

[Mucker1884]

6 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

If you don’t see something it isn’t clear. If you see it, it’s clear. Stop trying to split hairs @Mucker1884. The sending off was not fortunate.  It was a deliberate elbow to Collo’s face - the sort of elbow that can break your nose or teeth. It was serious foul play and a straight red. No question. 

 

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I think any team would be rightly aggrieved had none of the 4 match officials have seen an incident so close to the ball.

 

I don't deny it wasn't warranted.  I am not claiming it was lucky (for us)... unlike many who did claim just that... at the time. 
At the very least, many were a little non-plussed as to why it was given.  Posters and professional commentators alike.
That to me screams that it wasn't "clear"... in real time.

Yes, it turns out it was a warranted Red card.  Yes, the team of officials got it right (Praise The Lord!).  Yes, with hindsight, and those extra camera angles that have apparently now been aired, it is 100% clear to all and sundry.

If that makes me a hair splitter, then so be it.  At 60, I'm just relieved to still have hair-a-plenty to split. 👀

[Ellafella]

11 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

 

 

I don't deny it wasn't warranted.  I am not claiming it was lucky (for us)... unlike many who did claim just that... at the time. 
At the very least, many were a little non-plussed as to why it was given.  Posters and professional commentators alike.
That to me screams that it wasn't "clear"... in real time.

Yes, it turns out it was a warranted Red card.  Yes, the team of officials got it right (Praise The Lord!).  Yes, with hindsight, and those extra camera angles that have apparently now been aired, it is 100% clear to all and sundry.

If that makes me a hair splitter, then so be it.  At 60, I'm just relieved to still have hair-a-plenty to split. 👀

We know it’s a syrup @Mucker1884 which explains the Sombrero 👀 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Ellafella