Derby County Versus Crewe Alexandra - Match Day Thread - ( FA Cup 1st Rd Replay )

[Ghost of Clough]

5 minutes ago, Carnero said:

I agree with you regarding the frustration at Sibley's lack of a proper run in the team to show what he can do as a regular starter.

However this is not a new issue, it's been going on under every manager since Cocu. At some point us Sibley-ites might need to look at the man himself rather than the manager(s), unfortunately.

"Every manager since Cocu" is only Rooney and Warne.

Rooney wanted battlers in midfield - even Bird struggled to get in ahead of Knight and Shinnie. Bird managed to get back in the side with Knight playing on the wing, but when Shinnie was sold Rooney brought another battler into the midfield (Thompson).

Under Warne, Sibley can't have a quiet game because he isn't even allowed to have a quiet half. He scores/assists in 1 game, then if he doesn't do anything in the first half of the following game, he'll be brought off and put on the bench for the next game. Goal against Morcambe, the moved to LWB/LB. Moved back to AM, 2 goals against Oxford, then off at half time in the next game. The same pattern is continuing this season.

[FlyBritishMidland]

38 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

If there was an obvious reason? He gets pulled off when others get left on. He doesn't get a start when others do. So if he's picked to play he must be a good person - he played how many consecutive games at fullback? It's obviously that he doesn't play a game that Warne likes/wants. Hourihane said as much for himself, if you don't play the way Warne wants you don't play.

When he's had a good run in a forward position and done squat then I'll agree with you. FFS he was on for how long the other match and hit the bar with a blistering shot. 

 

[Comrade 86]

On 15/11/2023 at 19:06, G STAR RAM said:

How can you even make comments like this when you didn't even watch the game?! 😂

I have it on good authority that Roy did in fact attend the game, as he was seen driving away from the ground.

[OoooMarkWright]

Sibley needs to do better. He’s been very average this season I’m afraid and I’m a big fan. His emergence under Cocu seems a long time ago. If he’s not careful, he’ll have a Marc Bridge Wilkinson/ Callum Guy type career rather than a top top player. Still better than all of us can muster, but it’d be a big disappointment if that is the case. Unfortunately he’s not really pulling up any trees against poor league 1 teams. He’s lost that bite that made him such a talent. It’s been coached out of him and his confidence looks shot. 
 

Having said all that, Hourihane and Smith were awful in midweek. Warne needs to realise that this balance isn’t a great one. What Hourihane was doing for the second goal I’ll never know. He had acres of space and made a shocking pass then a feeble attempt to win it back. So poor. 

[DavesaRam]

3 hours ago, jono said:

Roy, you know a lot about the game, you’ve watched a lifetime of football, I know from our PM’s that you are a sound, well read intelligent and thoughtful man, but honestly with the anti Warne thing and the Sibley my love child stance you are being a bit of an obsessional scratched record and seriously one dimensional. Come on, regardless of position or a run of starts and whatever caveats are chucked in, has Sibs really got even close to his early promise or his occasional purple patches. ? I am sure you’d lambast the likes of Lawrence or Ince for the level of performance we’ve seen from him, but somehow Sibs gets a free pass time and again. I Just don’t get it ?
 

he’s a good lad with some ability, that  from time to time shows up. That said he isn’t a Will Hughes or anything even close. You wouldn’t build a team round him, you wouldn’t chose him as a dead cert on a 1 V 1, you wouldn’t say he’s Mr 100% graft and passion. You wouldn’t say he was team spirit personified or possessed of vision and a football brain. He’s a Ram and I’ll back him all the way when he’s playing but seeing him as a wronged and misused super star in the making is bonkers. .. And that is how you come across. Hey, each to his own, it is just opinions but there does come a point when hard evidence negates even the most sincere feelings and instincts. 

In addition he gets slagged off for not making the most of the opportunities he’s given, but when he finally gets on the pitch its either an end-of-match cameo or in the wrong  position. Or if he is actually in his best, No. 10 position its in yet another match where Warne has got his team to by-pass midfield. And all the time he is looking over his shoulder  because even if he scores two goals, or gets an assist he is likely to get hooked because he gets shat on as soon as Warne’s backside starts to blow. All the time watching Hourihane ambling around like he’s on crutches yet still guaranteed his place in the next match.

Give him a fair crack at number 10, oh and use your #**{<€ midfield, for goodness sake while you are at it,  with a fair crack being at least half the number of matches given Hourihane despite his hit or miss performances.

[duncanjwitham]

4 minutes ago, enachops said:

He had acres of space and made a shocking pass

One might suggest that the former leads to the later.  You need someone to actually pass to, not acres of space with only opponents in it.  From the highlights, there basically isn’t another Derby player in shot from the moment he picks it up, and he ends up trying to thread a difficult pass, which he fails to make.

[i-Ram]

14 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

One might suggest that the former leads to the later.  You need someone to actually pass to, not acres of space with only opponents in it.  From the highlights, there basically isn’t another Derby player in shot from the moment he picks it up, and he ends up trying to thread a difficult pass, which he fails to make.

To be fair, all his forward outlets were probably bombing down the flanks.

[OoooMarkWright]

15 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

One might suggest that the former leads to the later.  You need someone to actually pass to, not acres of space with only opponents in it.  From the highlights, there basically isn’t another Derby player in shot from the moment he picks it up, and he ends up trying to thread a difficult pass, which he fails to make.

Completely disagree. He had acres of space to run into.He didn’t need to pass, he had options.  He was under absolutely zero pressure. He had team mates both sides or forward and the pass to Forsyth was a simple one. It was terrible play by Hourihane. Real schoolboy, lazy football. 

[duncanjwitham]

7 minutes ago, enachops said:

Completely disagree. He had acres of space to run into.He didn’t need to pass, he had options.  He was under absolutely zero pressure. He had team mates both sides or forward and the pass to Forsyth was a simple one. It was terrible play by Hourihane. Real schoolboy, lazy football. 

When he receives the ball, he’s got 3 opponents in a triangle around him.  They aren’t right on top of him, but they’re cutting off most of the easy passing options.  Forsyth looks to have been at least 30 yards away with a defender in between, so not an obviously simple pass.  He carries the ball maybe 5 or 10 yards anyway, but if he takes it much further he very quickly comes under pressure from one or both of the guys in front of him, and losing the ball there just results in the same situation that actually happened.  You can’t have your DM trying to dribble his way out of trouble in his own half, it’s suicidal.

Hourihane should probably have just lumped it forward, rather than try the pass he played, but you cant keep putting your own players in situations like that, you are going to end up conceding goals from it one way or another.

[Archied]

7 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

I have it on good authority that Roy did in fact attend the game, as he was seen driving away from the ground.

If I could give that 2 laugh imogis I would

[G STAR RAM]

7 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

When he receives the ball, he’s got 3 opponents in a triangle around him.  They aren’t right on top of him, but they’re cutting off most of the easy passing options.  Forsyth looks to have been at least 30 yards away with a defender in between, so not an obviously simple pass.  He carries the ball maybe 5 or 10 yards anyway, but if he takes it much further he very quickly comes under pressure from one or both of the guys in front of him, and losing the ball there just results in the same situation that actually happened.  You can’t have your DM trying to dribble his way out of trouble in his own half, it’s suicidal.

Hourihane should probably have just lumped it forward, rather than try the pass he played, but you cant keep putting your own players in situations like that, you are going to end up conceding goals from it one way or another.

There is no defence for what Hourihane did for their second goal, absolutely zilch.

 

[G STAR RAM]

11 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

If there was an obvious reason? He gets pulled off when others get left on. He doesn't get a start when others do. So if he's picked to play he must be a good person - he played how many consecutive games at fullback? It's obviously that he doesn't play a game that Warne likes/wants. Hourihane said as much for himself, if you don't play the way Warne wants you don't play.

When he's had a good run in a forward position and done squat then I'll agree with you. FFS he was on for how long the other match and hit the bar with a blistering shot. 

Unfortunately we were playing a proper match, not the cross bar challenge.

[G STAR RAM]

8 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

In addition he gets slagged off for not making the most of the opportunities he’s given, but when he finally gets on the pitch its either an end-of-match cameo or in the wrong  position. Or if he is actually in his best, No. 10 position its in yet another match where Warne has got his team to by-pass midfield. And all the time he is looking over his shoulder  because even if he scores two goals, or gets an assist he is likely to get hooked because he gets shat on as soon as Warne’s backside starts to blow. All the time watching Hourihane ambling around like he’s on crutches yet still guaranteed his place in the next match.

Give him a fair crack at number 10, oh and use your #**{<€ midfield, for goodness sake while you are at it,  with a fair crack being at least half the number of matches given Hourihane despite his hit or miss performances.

He started 3 league games in a row recently - Shrewsbury, Stevenage and Exeter (think they were on the back of a good performance against Notts County in the cup).

Go back on here and look what marks he got from the fans in them 3 matches along with remarks about his performance. 

No marks above 6 and only one positive comment.

I'm a Sibley fan, he's a local lad who cares about the club and I want him to do well. The fact is that he has not progressed at all from when he burst on the scene.

At this moment in time I'd say he's an average league one player and that is reflected in the game time he gets.

[RoyMac5]

On 15/11/2023 at 19:06, G STAR RAM said:

How can you even make comments like this when you didn't even watch the game?! 😂

I'd suggest looking at Hourihanes effort to tackle for their first 2 goals and then come back and say you think he was giving his all.

Do you think that the only way it is obvious a player is trying is when you see their legs move? 😄 You do know that the brain has an influence too?

Hourihane is being asked to play in a way that doesn't suit him, he's said so. He's also not as young as he was but still was made to play when others could have. His mental strength might not also be what it was. He strikes me a decent bloke but you think he wasn't trying. I disagree.

Edited November 17, 2023 by RoyMac5

[angieram]

12 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Do you think that the only way it is obvious a player is trying is when you see their legs move? 😄 You do know that the brain has an influence too?

Hourihane is being asked to play in a way that doesn't suit him, he's said so. He's also not as young as he was but still was made to play when others could have. His mental strength might not also be what it was. He strikes me a decent bloke but you think he wasn't trying. I disagree.

You disagree that he wasn't trying in a game you didn't watch? 

I was at the game. He was coasting. 

[sage]

12 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

From a @Ghost of Clough stats post:

""Over the past 5 weeks, Sibley has 2 goals and 2 assists from the 5 games he started.

Notts County - 90 mins played (mostly on the wings), 2 goals

Shrewsbury - 90 mins played (RW)

Exeter - 71 mins (AM)

Stevenage - 45 mins (AM), 1 assist

Northampton - not used

Crewe - 11 mins (AM), 1 assist

Barnsley - 5 mins (CF)

Crewe - 59 mins (RW), 1 assist

That's 2 goals and 3 assists in just 371 minutes over the past 5 weeks.

He started 4 games in a row (2 goals and an assist), yet HE'S the problem (!!!) so needs to be brought off at half time shortly after assisting our equaliser - we failed to score in the 2nd half. Dropped to the bench in the following game and not even used. 2 more assists in the following 75 minutes on the pitch (spread over 3 games), but he'll no doubt be back on the bench against Bristol.

Sibley has to play well every game, or he is subbed off and dropped the first time he 'plays badly'. Thompson can play well every game but still won't start unless we have an injury crisis. Hourihane and Smith can be poor in several consecutive games but still start next week."

The stats are skewed by the Notts Co being League Two patchwork side. The Crewe away assist is tenuous.

The problem he has, is much of his game is awful. His general play. He doesn't read the game well. It's not 'the first time he plays badly' it's consistently badly against league opposition.

Now there is an argument that his development wasn't handled well by Rooney but as we stand, this season, when everyone is available, he is a sub.

 

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, angieram said:

You disagree that he wasn't trying in a game you didn't watch? 

I was at the game. He was coasting. 

I said there was more to whether a player was trying than watching his legs move - you were inside his head were you?

[Anag Ram]

I still think his best performances in recent seasons have been at LB/LWB where he has time to see what’s ahead of him.

There’s a role for him there, especially if we return to five at the back.

Trouble is, we only then have five players ahead of that and we don’t have a midfield that scores goals. The squad balance is wrong for a 3-5-2.

 

 

 

[jono]

9 hours ago, i-Ram said:

To be fair, all his forward outlets were probably bombing down the flanks.

That is fair … what was Collins doing playing right wing for big chunks of the game ? He does that in certain games for no logical reason that I can fathom, and it always coincides with, surprise surprise .. no goals. Get in the box man

[Archied]

3 hours ago, angieram said:

You disagree that he wasn't trying in a game you didn't watch? 

I was at the game. He was coasting. 

I wasn’t there and didn’t see it but here’s the thing , I have a choice , trust the opinion of some who watched the game and don’t miss too many games or someone who doesn’t go to games ,🤷‍♂️, no offence Roy but surely you can see how that works ,

I’ve been struggling to read threads lately as it’s such a downer but noticed that there quite a few who don’t even go to games wanting the manager sacked because we aren’t a good enough watch 🤷‍♂️