Sibley too good!

[TheHomunculusLives]

I'm really not sure what to make of Sibley at this stage of his career. He's been around the first team for 4 years now, under several managers and in a side struggling in the Championship or down in League One, yet still isn't a regular. Put together a highlights reel of his goals and you'd think he was a very good player, but there's clearly something missing as he's getting past the promising youngster stage now yet still isn't established.

[Brammie Steve]

As I said when I started this topic (and others re Sibley!) He is a one-off who may benefit from guidance but not from a) being told how to play or b) being underplayed, subbed, or out of position.

Every team benefits from a maverick player or loose cannon who is unpredictable as he covers every blade of grass in a match.

He needs to learn not to retaliate which was one of Bestie’s faults!

We all need one Sibley……. but perhaps not two!

 

 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, sage said:

I see we have the biannual 'Sibley love in' when he scores a good goal.

The fact that it's biannual should give a bit of a clue.

 

Perhaps because he contributes more than other midfielders when he actually plays.

Minutes per goal contribution:
Sibley - 176 (even higher when looking at CM/AM only)
Hourihane - 227
Bird - 236

Wingers and forwards being:
Weston - 25
Mendez-Laing - 113
Washington - 130
Waghorn - 134
Collins - 140
Barkhuizen - 148
John-Jules - 188

[sage]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Perhaps because he contributes more than other midfielders when he actually plays.

Minutes per goal contribution:
Sibley - 176 (even higher when looking at CM/AM only)
Hourihane - 227
Bird - 236

Wingers and forwards being:
Weston - 25
Mendez-Laing - 113
Washington - 130
Waghorn - 134
Collins - 140
Barkhuizen - 148
John-Jules - 188

That disguises the problem. His all-round poor play is interrupted by the occasional good goal. Every manager thought the same.  

[DavesaRam]

12 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I'm not sure there'd be big offers to Sibley f he was out of contract, on the basis that he's been around the first team for  few years now but has never forced himself into a regular starting position either in the championship or in League 1.

His talent is obvious and it's not out of the question that he's just a little blooming into an indespensible part of the team, but I doubt other teams would be willing to take a big punt on him, a punt on him if he's a free agent and not on big wages (all reletive) but I'm pretty sure we stand a good chance of keeping him.

Its the same old arguments. I agree that Sibley hasn’t developed his full potential, but in terms of having the chance to, his path to success had been littered with trip wires at every stage. UnlikeTom Lawrence who in each match where he played well was then given 6 freebies. Similar with Hourihane, who has shown flashes of talent here or there (as has Sibbers, of course). But unlike those two, the only positions where Sibley hasn’t played are CDM and goalkeeper. In his best position he has only managed a maximum of 40 - 45 minutes, and apart from Left Back all he gets are bit parts.

We did the same to Weimman. He is a central striker, so when he got the chance to play, it was stuck out on the wing, where everybody decried his lack of goals. But when he went to Bristol, they played him down the middle and funnily he started scoring for fun. 🙄

Despite the fantastic run we are on and the great stats, Derby County make a habit of wasting the potential of the players we have, with young Louie being a case in point.

[TomTom92]

Think Sibs has had enough chances and unfortunately hasn't taken them.

Maybe if he left he'd kick on and become the player we thought he could be, but sadly i think whilst ever he's with us we'll continue to see him waste away with the odd good goal thrown in. 

I think one of his main issues is when he's having a quiet game, he doesn't do enough of the dirty stuff to warrant him staying on the pitch. 

In hindsight a loan move away during Cocu/Rooney season would've maybe done him well. Think we've just kept hold of him and messed him around for too long for him to be an asset to us moving forward.

[DavesaRam]

56 minutes ago, angieram said:

Trust, time - it's the same thing, really? 

It is, but we don’t give him either of them!

[RadioactiveWaste]

34 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

Its the same old arguments. I agree that Sibley hasn’t developed his full potential, but in terms of having the chance to, his path to success had been littered with trip wires at every stage. UnlikeTom Lawrence who in each match where he played well was then given 6 freebies. Similar with Hourihane, who has shown flashes of talent here or there (as has Sibbers, of course). But unlike those two, the only positions where Sibley hasn’t played are CDM and goalkeeper. In his best position he has only managed a maximum of 40 - 45 minutes, and apart from Left Back all he gets are bit parts.

We did the same to Weimman. He is a central striker, so when he got the chance to play, it was stuck out on the wing, where everybody decried his lack of goals. But when he went to Bristol, they played him down the middle and funnily he started scoring for fun. 🙄

Despite the fantastic run we are on and the great stats, Derby County make a habit of wasting the potential of the players we have, with young Louie being a case in point.

Totally agree with your post.

I was angling that he might be easier to keep than perhaps he "should be" because of the way he's not been given the regular starts, but time will tell. I'll be very sad if/when he moves, he's was part of that generation of academy graduates who are nearly all departed now.

[Srg]

One of the only players we have who can score out of pretty much nothing. In this period whilst we have no strikers, we need to try and use him. Thought he was a little late coming on on Saturday when we were desperate for goal attempts, luckily he still managed one that counted.

[MadAmster]

So, I think the consensus on Sibs is

a) he hasn't reached his potential

b) he hasn't had a run of games, except 15 or so last season at left back, to cement himself into a role and make it his own. 

c) possibly harmed by his own diversity he has played full back, DM, LWB, LW, RW and the odd game at #10, his best position IMO. How does one develop as a player given the lack of a consistent role?

I've followed the lad from the U18 Champions days of 2019. IMO, there is still a very good player in there who won't ever get out unless he gets a run at a role, preferably #10. Unfortunately, I don't think PW is ever going to give him what he needs. He might be better off moving on to a club where he'll be given the time and trust he (and every other player, for that matter) needs to fulfil their potential.

Just to close, I don't think fans should get on his case. True he hasn't reached his potential but ask yourself why and show some understanding. 

 

[YorkshireRam]

The instinctive nature of the finish was so sharp that I've been genuinely wondering about trying him as a false 9 with NML and CBT either side, a la Liverpool with Firmino... 👀

Outlandish notions aside, I think he's the perfect replacement for the advanced midfield role Bird's currently playing, after Max departs. If we could consistently get Sibley in the gaps between the opposition's midfield and defence, I think he could be a menace going forward for us. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

37 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Totally agree with your post.

I was angling that he might be easier to keep than perhaps he "should be" because of the way he's not been given the regular starts, but time will tell. I'll be very sad if/when he moves, he's was part of that generation of academy graduates who are nearly all departed now.

I would assume he's on about 9k a week based on previous players we had coming through in the championship.  Possibly more after his opening season.  If he stays, he'll be having to accept less than that based on game time thus far. 

[Returning ram]

Personally think he is best utilised as a sub when the game is more open. He may have the most contributions stats wise however this doesn't tell the same story as watching the game. Unfortunately he isn't involved within the game as an attacking player for me and therefore sometimes it's like playing with a player less.

I remember him breaking through and thought he was going to be the next big thing, still may be, his love for the club is clear, his desire is also there wherever he puts on the shirt is never on doubt. 
 

However he hasn't been able to hold down a regular place under several managers, he hasn't got people knocking down the door to take him to their club and therefore is at a crossroads of his career in the summer. Hopefully for him, wherever he ends up, he can kick on with his career but a change may be what is needed.

[BatRam]

Think if we have Sibley and adams in starting line up we'll be down to 9 men by half time. The card stats are ridiculous 🤣

[Rambam]

It might be worth trying Adams up front. That’s his favoured position funnily enough. 

[Comrade 86]

Louie does frustrate me, but at the start of the season I was still saying that about Max Bird and I'm still some way off the point of giving up on Sibbo. I would really like to see him get a run of games as he does score goals others can't. I think most folk acknowledge that much. Whether that'll happen though, given the way we play, who knows?

My thinking is that recently, despite being played all over the park, he has been calmer and generally speaking, he's looked a better player for it. I also believe there's more to his game than he's shown in the men's team and I'd definitely not be writing him off just yet. 

[ck-]

I like Sibley but I think there are things he needs to learn:

Control the ball better. His first time control is poor. That’s learnable. 
Shield the ball better. That also learnable. 
Explosive pace into space. Probably not learnable, but the other two might mitigate it. It may also improve as he gains a little strength. 
 

I also think he’s quite physically immature - he still looks like a boy rather than a man. As he’s still only 22, he has time to bulk up a bit. It will then take him time to adjust to that - I recall something similar with Bird a couple of seasons back.  

Taking all that together, I still think there’s time for him to develop. We need to forget about him having been around the team for ages and think of him as a young player just getting his first chance. Encourage the heck out of him, forgive his mistakes, and accept that it will be a while yet before he reaches his potential. 
 

[Srg]

2 minutes ago, ck- said:

I like Sibley but I think there are things he needs to learn:

Control the ball better. His first time control is poor. That’s learnable. 
Shield the ball better. That also learnable. 
Explosive pace into space. Probably not learnable, but the other two might mitigate it. It may also improve as he gains a little strength. 
 

I also think he’s quite physically immature - he still looks like a boy rather than a man. As he’s still only 22, he has time to bulk up a bit. It will then take him time to adjust to that - I recall something similar with Bird a couple of seasons back.  

Taking all that together, I still think there’s time for him to develop. We need to forget about him having been around the team for ages and think of him as a young player just getting his first chance. Encourage the heck out of him, forgive his mistakes, and accept that it will be a while yet before he reaches his potential. 
 

It's 2024, are we still perpetuating this "bulk up" nonsense in football?

[ck-]

2 minutes ago, Srg said:

It's 2024, are we still perpetuating this "bulk up" nonsense in football?

Maybe bulk up isn’t the right phrase. Learn to position himself better so as to not be wrestled off the ball. 

[Day]

His career progression, or lack of it, has been frustrating. When you look at total minutes on the pitch in competitive first team football for us, compared to Jason Knight and Max Bird who are all similar ages, you have to ask why.

Sibley 7962 

Knight 12,148

Bird 14,695 

The lad has unquestionable potential, still relatively young at just 22, he's fallen victim of failing to nail down a position in the team and used to plug gaps as Jason Knight did, however unlike Knight he's not really proving his worth when given the brief opportunities all over the pitch.

Not everyone will have the workrate of Jason Knight, can't hold that against him, but we see these cameos, rewarded with a start and he's just flat. Not the player we know he can be. 

Sibley needs to ask some serious questions of Warne and ask where exactly does he fit in this team for his own career. 

What is his position and what is his role, I wouldn't even get to the point of talking about wages and length of contract unless he's given an answer which he feels is honest and can see a future at the club.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him walk. 

His mates Knight and Bird down Bristol, he's the only one left and that must feel like being the kid at school being left till last to be picked. I bet you he values himself as good, if not better than those two and it will sting.