Warne Out Out

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Right Mick and @G STAR RAM 

are we happy that derby would have had the second highest/highest attendances in the division last season? Which gives us a financial edge over the rest of the division. 
 

I think it’s the athletic but it’s certainly been reported somewhere that we still made an operating loss last season which would suggest Clowes has allowed that income to be spent (and then some). 
 

If we are bringing in more money than all but Sheff Weds and we’ve spent it all, surely it reasons that we had one of the bigger budgets in the division? 
 

We’ve then over the summer signed a bunch of players on their last decent contracts which have involved dropping down a division so you’d assume they’d be on steady money. The free agents tend to be on higher wages too because the club didn’t have to pay a fee so I don’t think our budget will have shrank from last year. 

Ive said I believe we have a top 6 budget?

[WilkoRam]

48 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Is it more unlikely than us having an agreement or contingency in place to the tune of £1.5 million plus when we've just exited admin having agreed only 25p in the £ for creditor repayments? Might HMRC be thinking that might be taking the piss? I'm unsure as to why some form of salary cap is considered so unlikely given our past overspend. It's precisely the kind of restriction I'd expect.

That said, it's just an opinion and frankly if Clowes wants to give more time to Warne and that's the sole reason he remains in situ, I'm not sure fans should be trying to bully him into doing otherwise anyway. If they want to vote with their feet, so be it, but I'm not sure pitching assumptions as facts and then using them to demean him is either credible or appropriate. This last bit isn't a reference to you by the way, more an observation on some of the garbage I saw posted last night.

I agree completely with your last paragraph. Clowes is the owner and the sole reason we still have a club. If he feels that Warne should have more time then that’s his choice. I’m ashamed at some people’s personal attacks on him and on Warne. Completely uncalled for.

The first part is just more guess work though and I only highlight it as you posted about material facts having long since gone and then proceed to make assumptions as to EFL restrictions possibly being in place. Who knows?

Clowes has made his decision, I hope it works and the football and results improve. I have nothing against Warne I just haven’t enjoyed much of our football this season and that’s a shame.

On that topic- my eldest daughter has got into football and there’s a battle at the moment between her supporting Derby or Tottenham (my wife’s team). Last season I think I was edging it, helped by taking her to some games (which is easier than getting tickets for Spurs). Also helped by Spurs playing awful football and the atmosphere being pretty toxic. This year I have no hope though, to sit bored watching Derby or watch some great entertainment with Spurs, which would you choose? I think as well that’s where we are, we’re Spurs of last year. We’ve gone for a “proven winner” but the football is poor and the results aren’t good enough for fans to swallow that style, it’s creating a divided fanbase. We’re not going to get a Big Ange through the door but what a difference a manager can make, someone who wants to entertain the fans, who’s happy for them to get excited and carried away. How I’d love that at Derby, instead I know my Daughter will be a Spurs fan now and I can’t blame her.

[IlsonDerby]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Ive said I believe we have a top 6 budget?

The point was more he isn’t some absolute chancer he’s a serious business man. He’ll know things we don’t because he’s in different circles to us. It’s why most clubs seem to roughly know the ball park budgets for other teams. That’s why I believe him when he says our budget is good. 
 

The other part about the ‘proof’ is more for mick who is seemingly questioning the size of our  budget. 
 

 

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

The point was more he isn’t some absolute chancer he’s a serious business man. He’ll know things we don’t because he’s in different circles to us. It’s why most clubs seem to roughly know the ball park budgets for other teams. That’s why I believe him when he says our budget is good. 

The other part about the ‘proof’ is more for mick who is seemingly questioning the size of our  budget. 

What have you taken him to mean by our budget is good then?

[angieram]

2 minutes ago, WilkoRam said:

I agree completely with your last paragraph. Clowes is the owner and the sole reason we still have a club. If he feels that Warne should have more time then that’s his choice. I’m ashamed at some people’s personal attacks on him and on Warne. Completely uncalled for.

The first part is just more guess work though and I only highlight it as you posted about material facts having long since gone and then proceed to make assumptions as to EFL restrictions possibly being in place. Who knows?

Clowes has made his decision, I hope it works and the football and results improve. I have nothing against Warne I just haven’t enjoyed much of our football this season and that’s a shame.

On that topic- my eldest daughter has got into football and there’s a battle at the moment between her supporting Derby or Tottenham (my wife’s team). Last season I think I was edging it, helped by taking her to some games (which is easier than getting tickets for Spurs). Also helped by Spurs playing awful football and the atmosphere being pretty toxic. This year I have no hope though, to sit bored watching Derby or watch some great entertainment with Spurs, which would you choose? I think as well that’s where we are, we’re Spurs of last year. We’ve gone for a “proven winner” but the football is poor and the results aren’t good enough for fans to swallow that style, it’s creating a divided fanbase. We’re not going to get a Big Ange through the door but what a difference a manager can make, someone who wants to entertain the fans, who’s happy for them to get excited and carried away. How I’d love that at Derby, instead I know my Daughter will be a Spurs fan now and I can’t blame her.

You called? 

[Jayram]

8 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I don’t get why anyone would believe Clowes to be a moron purely based on his decision to run his business how he sees fit.
If people don’t like Warne and want him sacked that’s up to them, other people don’t share that opinion currently, including it seems the one person who can actually make that call. Having a different (and far more informed than ANY of us) opinion doesn’t qualify Clowes as a moron 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

Absolutely right. Calling Mr Clowes names is unnecessary and childish, and like all Derby fans I have a great deal of respect and gratitude for what he did to save the club. However, as a lifelong Rams fan I believe those of us who don’t believe Warne is the right man have the right to criticise the owner for making the decision he did in bringing him in. Personally I think it was a poor decision (though perhaps understandable given Warne’s record at the time) that will set us back years as a club. 

[Jayram]

7 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

Said arsenal fans about arteta. I'm not saying Warne is going to be the second coming of pep but I think he needs more time. We've not been bad enough to sack him yet.

We’ll have to agree to disagree Rammy.
And Warnes football philosophy and tactical nous are about as far apart from Artetas as it is possible to get!

[simmoram1995]

9 minutes ago, Jayram said:

Absolutely right. Calling Mr Clowes names is unnecessary and childish, and like all Derby fans I have a great deal of respect and gratitude for what he did to save the club. However, as a lifelong Rams fan I believe those of us who don’t believe Warne is the right man have the right to criticise the owner for making the decision he did in bringing him in. Personally I think it was a poor decision (though perhaps understandable given Warne’s record at the time) that will set us back years as a club. 

The length of the contract is the first the main issue, as it essentially financially cripples us but masked as a a sustainable decision. I personally would have given him 18 months then reviewed the progress but I guess Warne wouldn’t have left Rotherham for that. Four year contracts are utter madness in football unless we’re talking about an under 25 year old player with potential. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

7 minutes ago, Jayram said:

Absolutely right. Calling Mr Clowes names is unnecessary and childish, and like all Derby fans I have a great deal of respect and gratitude for what he did to save the club. However, as a lifelong Rams fan I believe those of us who don’t believe Warne is the right man have the right to criticise the owner for making the decision he did in bringing him in. Personally I think it was a poor decision (though perhaps understandable given Warne’s record at the time) that will set us back years as a club. 

I’ve not said anywhere that people can’t have their opinions and criticise the appointment of Warne, plenty have and with a well reasoned thought process behind it. I don’t agree with all those opinions, but again that’s my right. 
I just don’t get the need to make it personal, levelling insults at Clowes (or Warne for that matter really) won’t change anything other than maybe making people feel better for a few minutes after they hit the post/send button, then shortly after the same frustrations and situation will remain.
 

[Ram-Alf]

10 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

So under what circumstances could Stevenage have better players than us?

If you don't mind me sticking my oar in.

As you know you don't necessarily need better players, Phycology plays a major part in sport, Physicality, Fitness, Team work, Luck, Poor officials in you favour, Crowd on your side.

Evens comes over as a "bully" a bit like Mick McCarthy, One who knows how to get the best out of ordinary players and one who knows how to play the officials, You get into your players heads that this is your day, You're at home, This will be a huge scalp for you, That the opposition aint all that.

PW comes across as a nice man, One who buys gifts to players for scoring their 1st goal, One who sticks pictures up on a wall, One who lets the players pick their captain, One it appears who doesn't really know his best team, One who doesn't like being questioned about poor performances, One who will throw players(no names)under the bus for his failings.

Imo PW is used to players who will do as he asks, Those that the likes of Evens/McCarthy have/had, When dealing with "better intelligent players" who might believe he talks BS and one who can't motivate, PW has shown with results at Cheltenham, Shrewsbury and Stevenage he struggles, Yet at Peterboro, Blackpool and Carlisle he's successful...who'd be a football manager 😉

 

[Jourdan]

11 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

So now I can't understand why Clowes didn't give the job to Rosenior. He's willing to let us be abysmal under Warne under the belief he'll give us stability, and eventually promote us. A man who I don't think gives a monkey's for this club - he said he didn't care for our history. 

Rosenior who stuck with us through awful times, who had us playing some great football and some dull (not awful, just dull) stuff too. Why didn't Mr Clowes appreciate what he'd already committed to the Club and give him a chance?

Maybe Rosenior had already planned his next move, much like Rooney?

I don’t think you can blame Clowes for the Rosenior situation.

Was it guaranteed that Rosenior would succeed? Was it guaranteed that Rosenior would sign a deal to stay? Would we have been able to invest in the squad in the same way Hull have been able to? 

Warne might not succeed here but it’s a separate issue. It doesn’t automatically make moving on from Rosenior a mistake.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I appreciate you clarifying your stance on it, I was just asking the original poster to do the same. 
My own view is that Clowes is far from being a “bad owner” at this point, and I don’t get why people are “disappointed” in him, as though he’s a naughty child. He’s the owner of the football club, who has invested millions into the club and the local community, without him there potentially wouldn’t be a club. The growing “hate” for Warne by SOME fans, as I’ve yet to see a quantitative study proving its most Derby fans as you and others keep stating, might be warranted but this season isn’t beyond saving and if Clowes has chosen to back his man there’s a couple of options available to fans. One is to accept it and make your choice as to whether you want to carry on following/supporting the club in spite of Warne’s presence. Another is to spend your time doing something else for the moment until such inevitable point as Warne moves on either through his choice or the owners. Another is to become more active in protesting Warne’s management, I’ve yet to see any marches against Warne or mass protests at the grounds by this “most” fans, or banners in the stands demanding “Warne out” or that we “play the McClaren way or else”. 

Clowes tenure as owner should not and, for me, will not be defined by one managerial appointment good or bad. It’s about how he acts as overall custodian for the football club and for now he’s getting most of the other stuff more right than wrong, with time and opportunity to correct what’s happening on the pitch provided I remember my patience. 

That's what is happening. That is what quite a few posters on here are saying they are doing.

[FindernRam]

Well he's had the dreaded vote of confidence so I give him a week tops....unless we smash Northampton tonight!

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

That's what is happening. That is what quite a few posters on here are saying they are doing.

Quite a few 😂😂😂😂😂

I just seriously hope that Clowes has contingency plans in place for the loss of these 7 'supporters' otherwise we might be on the brink of extinction again. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

That's what is happening. That is what quite a few posters on here are saying they are doing.

Yep 

[Mick Brolly]

36 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

The point was more he isn’t some absolute chancer he’s a serious business man. He’ll know things we don’t because he’s in different circles to us. It’s why most clubs seem to roughly know the ball park budgets for other teams. That’s why I believe him when he says our budget is good. 
 

The other part about the ‘proof’ is more for mick who is seemingly questioning the size of our  budget. 
 

 

Sorry for questioning something 

[Ghost of Clough]

58 minutes ago, Mick Brolly said:

7th

So you believe we have a total club wage bill of £6-7m?

Best in mind it was roughly £18m when we got relegated under administration.

[Steve Buckley’s Dog]

36 minutes ago, WilkoRam said:

I agree completely with your last paragraph. Clowes is the owner and the sole reason we still have a club. If he feels that Warne should have more time then that’s his choice. I’m ashamed at some people’s personal attacks on him and on Warne. Completely uncalled for.

The first part is just more guess work though and I only highlight it as you posted about material facts having long since gone and then proceed to make assumptions as to EFL restrictions possibly being in place. Who knows?

Clowes has made his decision, I hope it works and the football and results improve. I have nothing against Warne I just haven’t enjoyed much of our football this season and that’s a shame.

On that topic- my eldest daughter has got into football and there’s a battle at the moment between her supporting Derby or Tottenham (my wife’s team). Last season I think I was edging it, helped by taking her to some games (which is easier than getting tickets for Spurs). Also helped by Spurs playing awful football and the atmosphere being pretty toxic. This year I have no hope though, to sit bored watching Derby or watch some great entertainment with Spurs, which would you choose? I think as well that’s where we are, we’re Spurs of last year. We’ve gone for a “proven winner” but the football is poor and the results aren’t good enough for fans to swallow that style, it’s creating a divided fanbase. We’re not going to get a Big Ange through the door but what a difference a manager can make, someone who wants to entertain the fans, who’s happy for them to get excited and carried away. How I’d love that at Derby, instead I know my Daughter will be a Spurs fan now and I can’t blame her.

You need to up your parenting skills. Life isn’t about fun and good times. It’s sheer drudgery and constant disappointment. It’s clear what will help prepare your daughter for the adult world. Supporting successful sports teams is for losers. Where’s the character building in that? 

[duncanjwitham]

38 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

The point was more he isn’t some absolute chancer he’s a serious business man. He’ll know things we don’t because he’s in different circles to us. It’s why most clubs seem to roughly know the ball park budgets for other teams. That’s why I believe him when he says our budget is good. 
 

The other part about the ‘proof’ is more for mick who is seemingly questioning the size of our  budget. 
 

They know because it's published in every club's annual accounts.  Admittedly it's total staff costs for the entire club (including all employees etc), but player wages will dominate that anyway.  Presumably we'll find out what our wage bill for last season was when our next set of accounts are produced.

[Jayram]

10 hours ago, europia said:

You talk about L1 mid table obscurity and it's not unique for a club of Derby County's stature to get stuck in the 3rd tier for a number of years. It's probably defined by the circumstances of a clubs demise and the associated financial fallout. So in Derby's situation, 3,4 or 5 seasons in L1 is not beyond the realms of possibility. The owner might be taking a pragmatic approach and accepting this, hence being willing to give Warne a lot of time without too many expectations other than sustaining a mid table position and hoping for some good fortune in the future. 

I’m not precious about us being in this league for another couple of seasons. I could live with that if the football was decent and progressive, but it isn’t. It’s absolutely awful, the same thing week in week out. I want to be entertained, to watch creative exciting football, but instead I have to endure Warne’s repetitive hoofball at places like Stevenage where I spent my hard earned yet again to watch the same failings. The mate I was there with was at Shrewsbury the week before watching the same thing again. He’s going through a divorce and money is tight but he goes to matches for a bit of a break from the strain of it all. My dad has terminal cancer and like my friend watching the Rams is a break from the strain of that. This is the point I think some of Warne’s adherents fail to see; football is meant to be entertaining, but Warne’s football philosophy is sucking the life out of the club and turning a lot of Rams fans away. In an era where the cost of living dictates what people spend their money on, the club have to be careful that the unconditional backing of Warne doesn’t cost them revenue that will be badly needed at this level of football going forward.