Is Warne living on borrowed time?

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Is it after one season when we narrowly missed out on reaching the play offs with a cobbled together team and tight reatrictions + 1 league game this season?

So last season doesn't count then? Or the fact that he's got in plenty of players he wanted - which was a supposed problem last season. If we did so well last season why aren't we carrying on from there, why does it look like he's dismantled everything?

[duncanjwitham]

5 minutes ago, Loughborough Ram said:

Seriously? I haven't twisted anything you've said, I just don't understand your 'cause and effect' argument relating to the 3 goals we've given away. Implying that we are too high up the pitch for Bradley to make that back pass is crass in the extreme. Paul Warne isn't coaching under 11s, he is coaching seasoned pros and a 30 yard back pass is well within the relevant players skill set. 

The thing is, there's been 3 of those under-hit back-passes in very recent memory while playing Warne's back 3 - Bradley v Wigan, Nelson v Sheff Utd and Curtis Davies v Sheff Wed.  All 3 from very experienced defenders.  If multiple players are all making the exact same uncharacteristic mistake, while playing in the same system, it suggests to me that the system is at least partially at fault.

[RoyMac5]

13 minutes ago, CBX1985 said:

Whether you like it or not, he is the best shot we have got.  It is easy to snipe, but that is the reality we live in.  

The grass is often greener until it isn't.  And PS, I was sad LR went - but when he did, and a four year deal, means we are where we are.

Lots thought Rosenior would be here for the long haul. It didn't take DC long to change our minds. We've got a budget, he can spend it how he wants. As for who else, well it seems there are plenty of managers about...

[NottmRAM]

I am disappointed with the performance on Saturday and lastnight but I don't feel we are in a desperate situation. If we lose to Burton, Oxford and Fleetwood, then I will be calling for a change, but, right now, I am confident that this side will get into their groove and we will be in the top 6 (and stay there).

Games can change in a moment. On Saturday against Wigan, if Collins had put the early chance in, it would have been a different game.

I really don't care about the cup - I think we are better off dropping out of any cup early.

Keep the faith.

[NottsRam77]

34 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

No, you're deliberately twisting what I said.

I believe that Paul Warne's tactics can lead to an increased chance of a player making a mistake, because when you're asking them to play in a manner they're not comfortable with, that happens. Same as Rosenior (and others) telling a team who aren't comfortable on the ball to pass it out under pressure - there are plenty of complains about that.

I believe that his tactics make it so that when a player does make a mistake it's more likely to be punished by the opposition.

I'm specifically talking about the Bradley pass against Wigan where he's passing it back from the centre circle, loads of space behind him and thus leaving the attacking player with all the time in the world to do what he needs to do. Closer to the goal and with more cover the striker has to make a decision very quickly, with more chance of the defence recovering the ball from him.

Are u seriously holding paul warne accountable for bradleys error on saturday???

good grief..

It was a f*** up.. simple as .. bradley will be the first to admit that

he had all the time in the world and as u rightly say all the space behind to pass it back to wildsmith… and he totally underhit it

its a pass i could make in my protective boot with no achiliies tendon currently…

bradley cocked up and it had absolutely nothing to do with tactics or warne  

other things on saturday warne owns … but not that 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Lol. How do you know what he said, you've stopped listening! 😉 Nah I'm gonna be selective about what I listen to, I wonder when DC said the club had a duty of care to Rosenior that he will feel the same way about Warne and listen to how he speaks? 

Anyway, yeah, alright you win! 😄 It's a Pyrrhic victory though mate.  

Just feeling happy that on the odd occasion I can persuade a fellow-dinosaur to change their mind 😆

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Brailsford Ram said:

Just feeling happy that on the odd occasion I can persuade a fellow-dinosaur to change their mind 😆

I'm fairly flexible, it can change back again just like that! 😄

[May Contain Nuts]

4 minutes ago, Loughborough Ram said:

Seriously? I haven't twisted anything you've said, I just don't understand your 'cause and effect' argument relating to the 3 goals we've given away. Implying that we are too high up the pitch for Bradley to make that back pass is crass in the extreme. Paul Warne isn't coaching under 11s, he is coaching seasoned pros and a 30 yard back pass is well within the relevant players skill set. 

If you don't like Warne, think he's not good enough or even just want him gone because he's annoying, then you have an argument, in fact you will likely be proven right. But dressing up arguments like we're all sitting in a corporate management seminar is ridiculous. 

I'll stick to my view that patience is needed and will respect your view that Warne is on borrowed time, even more so if you stop trying to blame him for things that just can't be his fault.

 A "corporate managment seminar"? Hardly. I just replaced the word team for the word workforce. 😆

You have twisted what I said. I didn't blame Warne for Wildsmith failing to collect a cross, for a start. That one was on Joe.

If you don't understand how the way a manager sets up his team can have a direct impact on how likely the his players are to make a mistake, I have no more words for you.

[Reverend]

Can someone explain to me why we are still bookies favorites to win League 1?

The performances so far certainly dont suggest it. Everybody suggesting we need time to gel but then so do other teams. Lots suggesting we are short on strikers and midfielders. Others saying we have no money to change things because we are still under the EFL sanctions.

So why are we favorites. I don't understand.

[McMuffin]

2 minutes ago, Reverend said:

Can someone explain to me why we are still bookies favorites to win League 1?

The performances so far certainly dont suggest it. Everybody suggesting we need time to gel but then so do other teams. Lots suggesting we are short on strikers and midfielders. Others saying we have no money to change things because we are still under the EFL sanctions.

So why are we favorites. I don't understand.

Because the league is poor most probably the weakest it’s been for a very long time. 

[Wolfie]

2 minutes ago, Reverend said:

Can someone explain to me why we are still bookies favorites to win League 1?

The performances so far certainly dont suggest it. Everybody suggesting we need time to gel but then so do other teams. Lots suggesting we are short on strikers and midfielders. Others saying we have no money to change things because we are still under the EFL sanctions.

So why are we favorites. I don't understand.

Bookies odds = amount of money wagered on the team.

Bookies odds do not = probability of the team winning

[CBX1985]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Lots thought Rosenior would be here for the long haul. It didn't take DC long to change our minds. We've got a budget, he can spend it how he wants. As for who else, well it seems there are plenty of managers about...

There are plenty of managers about, but it is a merry-go-round.  I don't think Clowes wants that for this club.

LR was a hangover from a previous regime, but was an obvious option (I disliked his tactics, but thought he deserved a season to show what he could do).  Not sure he required any major payoff or anything like that.  Warne would be very expensive.

The second point on budget is unknown.  The EFL "loosened" restrictions, not eliminated then,  We don't know what restrictions we are under.  A three year payoff of a manager is going to dent any business plan.  Let's say we were three or six months into the season - you may have a point.

At the moment, we are one real game in.  There is much to do.  But chucking the manager at this stage sounds like madness.  The tacticcs need to be worked on, improved on.  Same, too, the selection.  But that is what he is paid for; getting rid of him without giving him the ability to experiment is unreasonable.

[Ram-Alf]

8 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Are u seriously holding paul warne accountable for bradleys error on saturday???

I

It wasn't PW who was caught out it was Bradley, But it was PW with his high pressing game to where our players were a few yards inside our own half when the ball was lost.

PW has to accept some of the blame, Tactics play a major role if football as you well know, It's how you use those tactics that will define the 90+ mins in the game.

[Loughborough Ram]

7 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

 A "corporate managment seminar"? Hardly. I just replaced the word team for the word workforce. 😆

You have twisted what I said. I didn't blame Warne for Wildsmith failing to collect a cross, for a start. That one was on Joe.

If you don't understand how the way a manager sets up his team can have a direct impact on how likely the his players are to make a mistake, I have no more words for you.

I was always told, if you're in a hole, stop digging. You appear to be looking for spare shovels.

I have played football to a level that gives me a very good understanding about how a managers decisions impact the team, however to try and pin individual errors on the manager is something I've never seriously encountered as a player, manager or fan. 

So I'll leave you to your silence and advise you to throw away your spade

[IlsonDerby]

30 minutes ago, CBX1985 said:

Who do you think we are going to get as manager if he does go?  I don't think the penny is dropping: We are not getting a Lampard, Rooney or Cocu.  We'll get someone obscure, or new, or out in the cold - the one thing they will be is cheap.  The three years we'd need to pay for would further limit the field.  

Whether you like it or not, he is the best shot we have got.  It is easy to snipe, but that is the reality we live in.  

The grass is often greener until it isn't.  And PS, I was sad LR went - but when he did, and a four year deal, means we are where we are.

I’m not saying sack him but don’t kid yourself, there’ll be tens upon tens of applications for our job. We are still massive in terms Of club size and ambition. Facilities etc. 

[Tamworthram]

11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So last season doesn't count then? Or the fact that he's got in plenty of players he wanted - which was a supposed problem last season. If we did so well last season why aren't we carrying on from there, why does it look like he's dismantled everything?

Of course it counts but, whilst we ultimately failed, it wasn't a dismal failure especially given the constraints we were under.

You're right, he's now got the players he wanted (but let's not kid ourselves into thinking they are necessarily his first choices) but he's only had one league game and one cup game of competitive football with that squad hence why he needs to be given more time.

Regarding carrying on from last season, the loss of Roberts, Knight and Didzy can't be ignored. 

[IlsonDerby]

Evidently you can’t rely on just good vibes and lads running through brick walls for each other after telling personal stories around a camp fire. 
 

There has to be good coaching and a clear plan. I’ll keep coming back to it until I’m blue in the face but we haven’t been coached how to press properly. The teams who do it well all know exactly when to click into shape. We don’t. 
 

 

[Tamworthram]

10 minutes ago, Reverend said:

Can someone explain to me why we are still bookies favorites to win League 1?

The performances so far certainly dont suggest it. Everybody suggesting we need time to gel but then so do other teams. Lots suggesting we are short on strikers and midfielders. Others saying we have no money to change things because we are still under the EFL sanctions.

So why are we favorites. I don't understand.

Maybe because bookies don't overreact and change their odds based on just one league game (and a cup game) out of 46. Maybe they think we'll come good. I hope they're right.

[May Contain Nuts]

2 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Are u seriously holding paul warne accountable for bradleys error on saturday???

good grief..

It was a f*** up.. simple as .. bradley will be the first to admit that

he had all the time in the world and as u rightly say all the space behind to pass it back to wildsmith… and he totally underhit it

its a pass i could make in my protective boot with no achiliies tendon currently…

bradley cocked up and it had absolutely nothing to do with tactics or warne  

other things on saturday warne owns … but not that 

 

Bradley didn't have all the time in the world. He was under pressure with a striker bearing down on him. He was hurried into making a decision. The more hurried a player is the more likely they are to make a mistake, I'm not sure what that concept seems so difficult to understand.

If you seriously want to pretend that the way a manager sets up his team doesn't have any influence on the positons a player finds himself in, the number of passing options available to them and the amount of pressure placed on them, then that's up to you.

We base our entire attacking strategy on it! Pressing as a team, applying pressure, forcing the opposition into mistakes... why even bother doing that if the way a team is set up has no influence?

Using that logic, I assume that Warne won't be praised for his tactics when we benefit from a mistake we've forced an opponent into?

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Tamworthram said:

Regarding carrying on from last season, the loss of Roberts, Knight and Didzy can't be ignored. 

Got to start wondering why those three are so irreplaceable, except Didzy's goals that is. When Warne has commented on certain players like Didzy or Waggy he's always surprised that they aren't what he thought they would be. I suggest that is making recruitment a bigger problem than it needs be.