Pride Before The Fall-Ryan Conway

[Nuwtfly]

49 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

I thought the same about Nigel Pearson’s tenure, but we appear to be currently witnessing the live recreation!

I think you’re starting to venture into the realms of Trolldom at this point, fella!

[alram]

this may be unpopular but Conway was a really poor journalist at the time, he constantly ignored and turned a blind eye to all the things going on at the club and I don’t think he should be trying to make money out of that period either because really who wants to revisit that period

 

I thought he was poor at the athletic and always talked down to people as if they were below him

[Nuwtfly]

1 minute ago, alram said:

this may be unpopular but Conway was a really poor journalist at the time, he constantly ignored and turned a blind eye to all the things going on at the club and I don’t think he should be trying to make money out of that period either because really who wants to revisit that period

 

I thought he was poor at the athletic and always talked down to people as if they were below him

Agree with some of this, he played a huge part in the building of the completely unjustified hype around Rooney, too. 

Not a big fan of the Athletic personally and certainly think Conway got an extraordinary amount of praise for doing…very little. Whereas Ed Dawes got absolute pelters for being one of the first to come out and reveal what was hiding beneath the surface…

[ariotofmyown]

12 minutes ago, alram said:

this may be unpopular but Conway was a really poor journalist at the time, he constantly ignored and turned a blind eye to all the things going on at the club and I don’t think he should be trying to make money out of that period either because really who wants to revisit that period

 

I thought he was poor at the athletic and always talked down to people as if they were below him

Well, coming from such an upbeat and positive poster as yourself, that really means something!

[ariotofmyown]

On 08/08/2023 at 12:40, BaaLocks said:

Obviously, I want it to work out with every Derby manager

Very old fashioned way of thinking. You missed a part off the end of that sentance "...but only when I've fully backed the initial appointment".

[RadioactiveWaste]

21 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Agree with some of this, he played a huge part in the building of the completely unjustified hype around Rooney, too. 

Not a big fan of the Athletic personally and certainly think Conway got an extraordinary amount of praise for doing…very little. Whereas Ed Dawes got absolute pelters for being one of the first to come out and reveal what was hiding beneath the surface…

I like Conway and I'm looking forward to reading his book, like i quite enjoyed reading his articles, but you're right, Ed Dawes got a ton of :poo: for actually trying to get to the bottom of things. I'll never forget his tears on radio derby, they came from a good place.

[Walkley Ram]

I'll buy this, but I'll pay for it with foreign investment and then declare myself bankrupt so I don't need to pay it back.

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

I think you are in a small minority, not unusual, if you don't think there was some good in how Rooney held the club together when Morris stopped communicating information about our parlous state to everyone, including him as the manager who was doing everything he could to muster enough points to defeat the points penalty with the team packed with academy players. Did you not watch the wins against Fulham and Bournemouth? We were relegated for the sins of Mel, not Rooney.

I read the extracts from the book and I see absolutely no reason whatsoever why that will not appear in the published version and I don't think that Rooney or his advisers will even blink if they bother to read it. Max Lowe's comments are expressed opinions of a footballer about his experience of a former manager. The sort of opinions that are published every day of the week in the football world. Rooney himself has frequently made adverse comments about people in the football world. When was the last time a player or a manager sought resort to settle his differences in the libel courts? Sugar v Venables and Willy Morgan v Tommy Docherty come to mind in the past 60 years but they rested upon actions that could be proved to be dishonest and malicious, Rumpole. There is no mileage in what Max Lowe has said. The statements about Cocu and Rooney are just what they say they are - perceived rumours and nothing more. Nothing for anyone to fear. You cannot be libelled for stating what you perceive to be an honestly held opinion.

If you think there is more to it I can only say that you are a conspiracy theorist or a misguided sensationalist or simply lacking in knowledge and experience of the workings of the legal system. You see things that others don't. I'm looking forward to reading it. If you are hoping for a legal intervention from Rooney, I think disappointment will be staring you in the face.

too much in that to get stuck into. But you might want to look a little more carefully at the defences to libel

There was a world of difference between say Cocu and Rooney. Cocu had the interests of the club at heart. As did LR. Rooney was interested only in himself and his future. He fooled a lot of people. But he fools fewer and fewer as the years pass. And he and his agent tried to ensure Rooney (through Kirchner) had tenure. Lucky escape for us

 If we’d had a good manager that season we’d quite likely have escaped relegation - despite the deductions. 

Ironic thing about your posts is that despite wanting to continually berate Morris (don’t mind that but it’s now a bit boring), you won’t blame him for putting an incompetent manager in charge of the team. 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Ironic thing about your posts is that despite wanting to continually berate Morris (don’t mind that but it’s now a bit boring), you won’t blame him for putting an incompetent manager in charge of the team. 

If you are relying on Morris's appointment of managers to further your argument I think you have completely lost the plot; he flushed c£30m down the pan compensating his appointments when he fired them. He claimed he appointed Cocu having personally identified him as the perfect fit for youth development but soon lost faith. It was Morris that brought Rooney into the club when we couldn't afford him. It was absurd. I am only supportive of Rooney in respect of his leadership when the wheel came off and Morris had thrown us to the wolves. You really do have some worrying thought processes and I find that completely boring. You are as effective as Mogadon. Your own perceptions of Rooney seem to be based on an obsessive dislike of him, probably going back years. It's irrational Rumpole. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

6 hours ago, Rev said:

Brilliant figurehead, so so manager.

We needed a figurehead more than we needed a manager, so it suited both parties.

 

Absolutely bang on.

[Bris Vegas]

Rooney was never really a manager for us. He was an icon Mel was using to try and lure a buyer.

For a couple of months he provided genuine quality and entertainment on the pitch. He was brilliant in that draw with Fulham and absolutely ran the midfield with Tom Huddlestone in the FA Cup win at Palace.

But, after Covid, he was an utter shambles and his presence made Cocu’s job impossible. Completely undermined him.

Mel didn’t care though. He was just using Rooney’s name to find buyers as he wanted out. He knew Lampard blew our last shot at promotion.

Cocu was like Nigel Clough. May never have actually gotten us promoted but would have set us up for a brighter future under sensible owners.

[Raich Carter]

8 hours ago, alram said:

I thought he was poor at the athletic and always talked down to people as if they were below him

Journalists... pretty much all the same in that regard. A bit like finding a nice Estate Agent - almost impossible. Cliches are usually true.

[Tombo]

The upturn in form when Rooney was named manager was largely because he was no longer on the pitch. He was shambolic in his last few games for us.

On another note, I like Ryan Conway and will be interested to read his book. He however was close to a few players who will be his main sources, and perhaps didn’t have that relationship with others.

Be prepared for it to be the Duane Holmes & Chums Story is all I'm saying. When you read "Rooney had X attitude towards the players", just think about who "the players" really means and if that's the undiluted truth or not.

[BaaLocks]

2 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Rooney was never really a manager for us. He was an icon Mel was using to try and lure a buyer.

For a couple of months he provided genuine quality and entertainment on the pitch. He was brilliant in that draw with Fulham and absolutely ran the midfield with Tom Huddlestone in the FA Cup win at Palace.

But, after Covid, he was an utter shambles and his presence made Cocu’s job impossible. Completely undermined him.

Mel didn’t care though. He was just using Rooney’s name to find buyers as he wanted out. He knew Lampard blew our last shot at promotion.

Cocu was like Nigel Clough. May never have actually gotten us promoted but would have set us up for a brighter future under sensible owners.

Top post, well put....

Edited August 10, 2023 by BaaLocks

[The Key Club King]

7 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

too much in that to get stuck into. But you might want to look a little more carefully at the defences to libel

There was a world of difference between say Cocu and Rooney. Cocu had the interests of the club at heart. As did LR. Rooney was interested only in himself and his future. He fooled a lot of people. But he fools fewer and fewer as the years pass. And he and his agent tried to ensure Rooney (through Kirchner) had tenure. Lucky escape for us

 If we’d had a good manager that season we’d quite likely have escaped relegation - despite the deductions. 

Ironic thing about your posts is that despite wanting to continually berate Morris (don’t mind that but it’s now a bit boring), you won’t blame him for putting an incompetent manager in charge of the team. 

Not sure why there is all this love for Cocu. Nice bloke certainly, but we were woeful that year, should have been relegated, and the squad was far better and built under far fewer restrictions than the following year. Other than 2007/08 it was the worst I have seen Derby in 40 years of following them. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

22 minutes ago, The Key Club King said:

Not sure why there is all this love for Cocu. Nice bloke certainly, but we were woeful that year, should have been relegated, and the squad was far better and built under far fewer restrictions than the following year. Other than 2007/08 it was the worst I have seen Derby in 40 years of following them. 

I really liked Cocu and really wanted it to work and I clung on to hopes of it working far too long, but even I got to the point where I knew it was time.

In another universe where things had been different, who knows, but we live in this one unfortunately.

Edited August 10, 2023 by RadioactiveWaste

[BondJovi]

1 hour ago, The Key Club King said:

Not sure why there is all this love for Cocu. Nice bloke certainly, but we were woeful that year, should have been relegated, and the squad was far better and built under far fewer restrictions than the following year. Other than 2007/08 it was the worst I have seen Derby in 40 years of following them. 

Look at the starting line up in that season for our opening game, our striking options were worse then than they are now!

Edited August 10, 2023 by BondJovi
Missed a bit.

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, The Key Club King said:

Not sure why there is all this love for Cocu. Nice bloke certainly, but we were woeful that year, should have been relegated, and the squad was far better and built under far fewer restrictions than the following year. Other than 2007/08 it was the worst I have seen Derby in 40 years of following them. 

I agree with what you say. Nowhere have I  said Cocu was a good manager in the championship. All I have been saying is he was a decent and honourable man who - like LR - had cause to throw his toys out over the way a starstruck MM recruited Rooney. (With ‘allegedly’ an assurance he would take over as manager.)

It was pretty clear early on that Rooney would use our club for his own purposes - aided by his agent. tbh I thought this was potentially quite exciting until it became clear that as a manager he had absolutely no clue. (Even then I hoped we might benefit from a LR/Rooney alliance.)  But his cynical exploitation of the club’s plight was a disgrace - he interfered in the takeover process in a way that might (but for our local hero) have put us out of business for many a year; or put us into the hands of a delusional rascal (Kirchner). The precise reasons for his departure will never be published but I would love to hear the Quantuma version. 

Best English player since Gascoigne maybe but no, not the kind of guy to fix the club after the MM years.  

[nottingram]

2 hours ago, The Key Club King said:

Not sure why there is all this love for Cocu. Nice bloke certainly, but we were woeful that year, should have been relegated, and the squad was far better and built under far fewer restrictions than the following year. Other than 2007/08 it was the worst I have seen Derby in 40 years of following them. 

The only thing that kept us up that year was the 10/15 game stretch where Bielik was fit. Cocu never had that luxury.

He had to go but if we were smarter / luckier, he brought through what should have been £25m worth of young players who thrived under him in his first season, less so in his second. We will not even get 20% of that when all is said and done with each subsequent manager diminishing their market value considerably.

[May Contain Nuts]

In terms of bad hands dealt to Derby managers you'd find it bloody difficult to find much worse than the ones dealt to Cocu, all things considered.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Kokosnuss