Warne has to get the balance right

[MadAmster]

2 mistakes led to their goals. The 2nd one was the ref not disallowing it for Wyke pulling Cash's shirt preventing him jumping for the ball. Having said that, if a keeper goes for a ball it has to be his.....

As others have said, that won't happen every game.

Bird seems to be a marmite type of player. Folk either rate him or they don't. I look at it this way... he was at the centre of that 20 or so unbeaten game run last season. He got injured and we started to lose. Coincidence?

[kevinhectoring]

3 hours ago, TomTom92 said:

Well the Knight and Bielik fees haven't been allocated to the transfer pot. 

Long term we may be able to use them for transfers, but it doesn't appear that this season will be one of them.

knight and bielik fees were - according to Warne - allocated to covering operating losses. But he pretty much disclosed this was DC’s decision and nothing to do with other restrictions. (It’s one of the few sections of RD interview that’s worth listening to.)  I think if we sell Bird we’ll see some of the proceeds reinvested in a striker. If we can persuade one to join us, that is 

[oomarkwright]

[CBRammette]

9 hours ago, i-Ram said:

It reflects possibly two things:

1) The new softer me

2) A nod to all the fawn eyed Warne supporters who despise me for not getting fully behind their man.

You choose x

 

I was going for 1) although your criticism of Warne is reasoned and well set out so if posters despise you must be for other reasons!!! However perhaps you think changing your picture from George Clooney will help and reduce the jealousy. If Bambi doesnt work, would suggest a cute picture of a mum and baby sea otter as noone could dislike that

[FindernRam]

3 hours ago, The Last Post said:

Is this one for me FR?

No! Sorry about that it didn't pick up the quote signs for @TomTom92

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

10 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

The match sounded pretty exciting on the radio. Are you saying it was boring? 

Yes .

[i-Ram]

3 hours ago, CBRammette said:

I was going for 1) although your criticism of Warne is reasoned and well set out so if posters despise you must be for other reasons!!! However perhaps you think changing your picture from George Clooney will help and reduce the jealousy. If Bambi doesnt work, would suggest a cute picture of a mum and baby sea otter as noone could dislike that

I just want to be loved.

[CBRammette]

2 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I just want to be loved.

Loving the new profile pic - my favourite animal and loved seeing them off California coast.  However, when Warne gets us promoted and you post a real pic of you in a Paul Warne bobble hat then you will be loved 😂

Seriously have no idea how this season will pan out but we do need pace from somewhere. Guess we'll have more realistic idea by end of September. Glass half full person but should know different by now with this club of ours. I do feel guilty for brainwashing my sons into a life of misery with my dad having done the same to me

[i-Ram]

17 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

Loving the new profile pic - my favourite animal and loved seeing them off California coast.  However, when Warne gets us promoted and you post a real pic of you in a Paul Warne bobble hat then you will be loved 😂

Seriously have no idea how this season will pan out but we do need pace from somewhere. Guess we'll have more realistic idea by end of September. Glass half full person but should know different by now with this club of ours. I do feel guilty for brainwashing my sons into a life of misery with my dad having done the same to me

I will happily do a pic if Warne gets us promoted. My very first profile pic was of me after losing the playoff final v QPR. 

We have a good squad this season; a couple more signings should do the trick, but can Warne make them properly tick? Time will tell.

Don’t feel guilt keeping the Derby line going with your boys. Supporting Derby is character building. Great too that you have mutual interests. That said, I drew a line with my mum about going to Daniel O’Donnell concerts.

[VulcanRam]

29 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I will happily do a pic if Warne gets us promoted. My very first profile pic was of me after losing the playoff final v QPR. 

We have a good squad this season; a couple more signings should do the trick, but can Warne make them properly tick? Time will tell.

Don’t feel guilt keeping the Derby line going with your boys. Supporting Derby is character building. Great too that you have mutual interests. That said, I drew a line with my mum about going to Daniel O’Donnell concerts.

Yeah, I can understand why she didn't want to go. 

[Ram1988]

Bird needs to go to playing deeper again where he is much more effective and not as a number 10. I woule rather Hourihane as a number 10 but he would be better behind a front two for me. Washington and Waggy would be a hard working front two who would at least get about.

[CBRammette]

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

I will happily do a pic if Warne gets us promoted. My very first profile pic was of me after losing the playoff final v QPR. 

We have a good squad this season; a couple more signings should do the trick, but can Warne make them properly tick? Time will tell.

Don’t feel guilt keeping the Derby line going with your boys. Supporting Derby is character building. Great too that you have mutual interests. That said, I drew a line with my mum about going to Daniel O’Donnell concerts.

Now he is vomit inducing 🤮🤮

[Magicman]

Agree switch Bird back and Hourihane into advanced role.

[Barney1991]

The defence will come good with what we’ve added and I think warne has done a good job in that aspect. The aspect I don’t feel we have done well is up top and midfield. He says he wants legs in the midfield from last season and still hasn’t addressed it and got rid of the player who had legs and hasn’t replaced him. Smith hourihane and bird are not engines. I prefer bird deeper back. All 3 were knackered inside 50 minutes but I’m hoping this is first game syndrome. 
 

losing mcgoldrick and his 25 goals and still haven’t replaced him. Washington was in worst team of the season and his record is below par. Mendes Laing again looked knackered and didn’t look like he knew what he was doing. Collins if he plays like the first game where he keeps drifting out wide will be the same Collins as last season where he just about hits double figures. The midfield 3 can anyone tell me who gets the goals. Hourihane playing where he is now we will lose goals and assists hes better further up. Bird and smith a combined 4 goals in 6 years. 
 

On current team we will have to hope the defence carries us with clean sheets and nick the odd 1 nil 

[superfit]

8 hours ago, Magicman said:

Agree switch Bird back and Hourihane into advanced role.

Agreed.
 

When Hourihane signed, Liam said the plan was for Hourihane to play in a more advanced role and Bird to sit deeper. Gets the best from both players and plays to their strengths. 

Problem is Hourihane doesn’t have the legs to press like Warne wants from that more advanced role. 

We have to face the fact that out of the 3 in the middle on Saturday perhaps one of the 3 would actually survive if Warne could get in the players to fit how he wants to play this season. 
 

What we have this season is a miss-mash of Liams team and his philosophy on how he wanted to play and Warne’s, let’s be kind, more pragmatic football. 

Tbh I’m beginning to wonder whether McGoldrick would have really suited how Warne wants to play this season and wouldn’t be surprised if that could have been one of the factors McGoldrick considered before deciding to move. Come to that I don’t think Roberts would really have been a good fit either. 
 

It’s possible that to get the balance right we could have to move on Bird, Cashin and Sibley to generate funds for a proper rebuild. It’s probably it’s in each of these players interests too to move to a club that’s going to get the best of each player for the sake of their own careers. Would be a shame. 
 

On the issue of players that don’t fit Warne’s football you could also add Barks, Lang and Thompson to the list. 

 

[DCFC_Sloth]

Getting the balance right will be really hard with this squad. I’m not a Warne guy, I’ll be honest, but I think he’s been dealt a bit of a dud hand. We recruited a team of players last summer who were all really good technically for Liam, and then went and got Warne after 11 games with no money to spend for minimum 3 windows. If we really wanted him, we should have got him straight away. 

Warne wants us to condense the middle of the pitch with high energy to win the ball back, then get it out wide to a wingback who puts an early ball into the box. The problem is we have lost the midfielder most suited to the system. We now have 3 technical players who Warne wants to go sprinting around and getting stuck in for 90 minutes combined with a winger who is out of position. Our summer business never seems to have attempted to address this. 

The other issue I see is the back three. They are simply too slow and not athletic enough to play as high as they are and also overlap when needed. It leaves us really exposed to any kind of pace or movement in behind and can open up a big gap between defenders and midfield, as seen for Wigan’s first when Bradley could only really go backwards and woefully under hit the pass. It’s the third goal that we’ve conceded in this manner so far this season when pre season is included so it’s clearly an issue. 

The result is we can’t win the ball back as quickly as we would like, leaving us exposed through the middle, and when we do win it back and get it into the box, our striker is on his own vs three or four because the midfield isn’t dynamic enough to chase in, or have dropped deeper to cover the defenders. I know it’s only been one game of the season, but a lot of these problems were evident last season when our unbeaten run came to an end. 

Finally, we are bringing in predominantly older players and have a paper thin squad. It’s a symptom of our situation, but it really hinders our ability to play ‘gas out football’ to any serious level. Warne says he wants another 2 players, but I think we are really 4/5 short. With the new added time rules we are essentially playing an extra 7 games over a league season in terms of minutes and that will hit us harder than any promotion rivals. The small squad also makes it really hard to change a game tactically. We can make five subs, but we only really have 4 or 5 serious options from the bench when the squad is fully fit. I think this season will be really tough for us, and I believe a combination of the recruitment not matching what the manager ideally wants and the manager’s inability to play any other system are the major reasons for this. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, DCFC_Sloth said:

Getting the balance right will be really hard with this squad. I’m not a Warne guy, I’ll be honest, but I think he’s been dealt a bit of a dud hand. We recruited a team of players last summer who were all really good technically for Liam, and then went and got Warne after 11 games with no money to spend for minimum 3 windows. If we really wanted him, we should have got him straight away. 

Warne wants us to condense the middle of the pitch with high energy to win the ball back, then get it out wide to a wingback who puts an early ball into the box. The problem is we have lost the midfielder most suited to the system. We now have 3 technical players who Warne wants to go sprinting around and getting stuck in for 90 minutes combined with a winger who is out of position. Our summer business never seems to have attempted to address this. 

The other issue I see is the back three. They are simply too slow and not athletic enough to play as high as they are and also overlap when needed. It leaves us really exposed to any kind of pace or movement in behind and can open up a big gap between defenders and midfield, as seen for Wigan’s first when Bradley could only really go backwards and woefully under hit the pass. It’s the third goal that we’ve conceded in this manner so far this season when pre season is included so it’s clearly an issue. 

The result is we can’t win the ball back as quickly as we would like, leaving us exposed through the middle, and when we do win it back and get it into the box, our striker is on his own vs three or four because the midfield isn’t dynamic enough to chase in, or have dropped deeper to cover the defenders. I know it’s only been one game of the season, but a lot of these problems were evident last season when our unbeaten run came to an end. 

Finally, we are bringing in predominantly older players and have a paper thin squad. It’s a symptom of our situation, but it really hinders our ability to play ‘gas out football’ to any serious level. Warne says he wants another 2 players, but I think we are really 4/5 short. With the new added time rules we are essentially playing an extra 7 games over a league season in terms of minutes and that will hit us harder than any promotion rivals. The small squad also makes it really hard to change a game tactically. We can make five subs, but we only really have 4 or 5 serious options from the bench when the squad is fully fit. I think this season will be really tough for us, and I believe a combination of the recruitment not matching what the manager ideally wants and the manager’s inability to play any other system are the major reasons for this. 

I like your analysis. We live in hope that a Knight replacement is on the shopping list. I also hope I'm not mistaken in believing that Nelson is not quite as slow as the other two centre-backs! But even if that is the case, your point is valid about the risks of playing a high line - unless Wildsmith is going to play like Neuer... which brings its own potential perils.

I would say about the timing of recruiting Warne that it would perhaps have been a big ask for Clowes to have had that one up his sleeve on the eve of the season, with everything else going on at that time. Allowing Rosenior to start, with the title "interim manager", seemed like a sensible option, and gave LR a chance to stake his claim. (I'm not reopening that can of worms here though!) - I understood that Clowes approached Rotherham via the correct formal route in order to approach Warne. He couldn't have done that until he was in place, and perhaps he felt that was too much upheaval all at once, both on a practical level and in terms of the effect on his staff. Maybe it was possible and maybe a ruthless businessman would have done it (?)

[i-Ram]

Good posts @superfit and @DCFC_Sloth .  I do think we have the players, with a couple more additions, who could get us up this season. I just don’t think we will be playing a system that gets the best out of them.

[RoyMac5]

40 minutes ago, superfit said:

It’s possible that to get the balance right we could have to move on Bird, Cashin and Sibley to generate funds for a proper rebuild. It’s probably it’s in each of these players interests too to move to a club that’s going to get the best of each player for the sake of their own careers. Would be a shame. 
 

On the issue of players that don’t fit Warne’s football you could also add Barks, Lang and Thompson to the list. 

So lets get rid of the talent and get the athletes in...how long will that take do you think? Still waiting for the replacement goal-scorer of course.

[duncanjwitham]

21 minutes ago, DCFC_Sloth said:

 I’m not a Warne guy, I’ll be honest, but I think he’s been dealt a bit of a dud hand.

I agree with pretty much everything else in your post, but I'm not sure "dealt a dud hand" is a fair description.  He knew exactly what he was walking into here - he knew the state of the squad, the financial restrictions etc.  And likewise, we knew exactly who we were appointing - we knew the type of players he had at Rotherham, the type of football he played etc.  If he/we didn't think he could get something out of the squad he inherited (plus sensible transfers in/out), he simply shouldn't have taken/been given the job.  You can't go around giving a manager a job, with the intention that he has 2 years of free-hits to replace the entire squad, before he starts producing results.  As much as anything, if we aren't seriously challenging for promotion this season, I just don't see how he's still in the job next season.

One of my big bugbears about Warne's management is he seems to have a massive blindspot for differing types of players.  He doesn't seem to care/understand that some players can do some things and other players can't.  Players seemingly get chucked into positions at random without a thought as to whether they can actually do them or not.  Every midfielder is a box-to-box midfielder, regardless of fitness/mobility.  Every wide player is a wingback, regardless of defensive skills/crossing ability.  I do wonder if he just thought he could rock up, say "everyone run around a lot", and it would just work like it did at Rotherham.