Warne has to get the balance right

[jimtastic56]

I like Warne , he is a decent honest bloke. He knows without promotion , he is toast at the end of the season. I think we should give him 10 games to get “his team” to click. A win tonight , with no mistakes at the back would be a moral booster.

[DCFC_Sloth]

1 hour ago, Kokosnuss said:

He is though.

He had 7 and a half months managing us last season to assess what he had within the squad already and to see what he needed to add, to identify players who would be out of contract in the summer who would come in and help turn us into 'his' team. He's had another 2-3 months over the 'summer' to get those players in and brought in 7 of his choosing and now Waggy as the 8th signing. That's not an insignificant number of players (I know they're not all starters) and other managers have 'stamped their mark' on a team with less.

Last season he initially tried to force the 3/5 at the back system on a team who couldn't play it, but saw an improvement (and our best form) when switching it to a back 4. That should have shown him that he doesn't have to go with wing backs to play well and win games in this league. Nevertheless that's how we ended the season, reinstating the wing backs.

What he could/should have learned from that is and that he could make some alterations to his long term strategy. There was scope to come up with something that both considers the abilities of the players he's inherited and those he was planning to bring in, a system where the new players complement the existing players. It doesn't really matter what formation that ended up being, it's more about the play style.

Instead it's like any lessons he may have learned from last season have largely been thrown in the bin. He's seemingly planned around trying to recreate his 21/22 Rotherham set-up regardless of whether we could get the right players in to execute the plan. Surely he knew that certain types of player

The way he's set up this season is back to not suiting some of the same players it didn't suit last season (maybe even more so), whilst simultaneously not really suiting some of the players he's added!   If he's to insist on playing a high defensive line with 2 of the 3CBs overlapping and supporting the attack, why sign Nelson & Bradley over other options, for example?

We do seem to have got the wing back positions correct but that's it, really?

All that said we haven't seen how  Washington & Waghorn will get on when fit, they may prove crucial. One game is too early to damn and doom the whole season, but that one game was still somewhat alarming in the way it made it look so like few of our issues from last season appear to have been fixed in the 9-10 months Warne's been here, and how many new ones seem to have been created.

I really agree with what you are saying in your post.

I said it earlier in the thread, I'm not a Warne guy, he wasn't my choice from the beginning and he has done little to change my view on that, but I am trying to be as objective as I can. Regarding putting his stamp on the side, he has bought in 7/8 players or whatever it is, but he hasn't been able to pay any transfer fees which I imagine really limits who he can get and I assume means he has to compromise on the players he is getting. He may have wanted big, athletic, ball playing centre backs, but when you can't pay a fee you can only get two of those things, so which do you sacrifice? Sonny Bradley is a big centre back who is fairly good on the ball, but he's slow. Curtis Nelson is a bit quicker, and he is big, but he is weaker at playing the ball out. I'm not saying that other managers don't face challenges in bringing players in, but it is fair to say that recruitment is really difficult for us/him at the moment and really hinders the ability to completely change the type of team we are with the expectation of achieving promotion at the end of the season. 

It leads into what I wrote earlier, and what aligns with what you are saying, about not being able to change his style and adapt to what he has. The things he wants to do - press high, be dynamic, lots of energy in midfield - aren't in the squad and haven't really been addressed/added in the recruitment and have left us, as it stands today, with quite an unbalanced squad and team that seems to neither be nout nor something. We have got some players that let us line up in the shape he wants, but those players don't/won't/can't play in the high energy way that he wants. We will have enough in this team to beat the bottom half sides, but I think there will be a continuation of the struggles against any of the top sides which we saw last season.

[G STAR RAM]

On 06/08/2023 at 21:12, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Count me in as looking for the Oasis in the desert as my delusions carry on.  This club should be comfortably mid table top flight as a regular occurrence with the occasional push for Europe and a few years in the championship intermittently.  14 years is a mere pee in 140 years and way outside the norm.    

We should be mid table top flight just 12 months after coming out of administration?

You're the epitomy of what I was talking about.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

18 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

We should be mid table top flight just 12 months after coming out of administration?

You're the epitomy of what I was talking about.

Well clearly not as you clearly know.

That should be the aspiration however.  Clearly your happy to keep playing Leyton Orient every year though and to hell with the past as Derby should never be relevant as a club again, leave it to Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth those European powerhouses.  Good luck with that. 

[G STAR RAM]

6 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Well clearly not as you clearly know.

That should be the aspiration however.  Clearly your happy to keep playing Leyton Orient every year though and to hell with the past as Derby should never be relevant as a club again, leave it to Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth those European powerhouses.  Good luck with that. 

No, you're definitely right, we should mid table top flight because we won the league and played in Europe 40 years ago.

We are also most definitely European powerhouses.

Delusional.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

No, you're definitely right, we should mid table top flight because we won the league and played in Europe 40 years ago.

We are also most definitely European powerhouses.

Delusional.

  At no point have I said Derby are European powerhouses. You've lost the argument. 

[CBRammette]

How different could last season have been if the midfield balance had been got right then?  Would Knighty have been playing for us in the Championship instead? Ironic its for Pearson. It will say a great deal if they all leave in turn having "heads turned" and seem to instantly be unleashed. "Didnt even set league 1 on fire."  Never mind anything else, not getting the best out of what was already right there last season is I think my sad turning point. We still have some good players and PW's job is to get the best out of them. Hope he does but we shall see and if he doesnt hope they have not all had "heads turned" and left 😢

 

[RoyMac5]

8 hours ago, CBRammette said:

How different could last season have been if the midfield balance had been got right then?  Would Knighty have been playing for us in the Championship instead? Ironic its for Pearson. It will say a great deal if they all leave in turn having "heads turned" and seem to instantly be unleashed. "Didnt even set league 1 on fire."  Never mind anything else, not getting the best out of what was already right there last season is I think my sad turning point. We still have some good players and PW's job is to get the best out of them. Hope he does but we shall see and if he doesnt hope they have not all had "heads turned" and left 😢

 

Don't forget Roberts had two assists.

Can't blame Knighty wanting to leave, he was never going to be played to his best under Warne if last season was anything to go on. 

[CBRammette]

21 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Don't forget Roberts had two assists.

Can't blame Knighty wanting to leave, he was never going to be played to his best under Warne if last season was anything to go on. 

I didnt!

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

I didnt!

I didn't say you did, did I? The statement was 'relating' to points being made on other threads about Warne admitting blame, although in that case not what he'd done wrong.

Edited August 10, 2023 by RoyMac5

[G STAR RAM]

On 09/08/2023 at 12:23, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

  At no point have I said Derby are European powerhouses. You've lost the argument. 

At no point did I say Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth are.

You're delusional.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

At no point did I say Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth are.

You're delusional.

No mate. I'm realistic based on 140 years of football that our natural position isn't middle of the 3rd division. Two days to come back with that .  Must try harder.

[G STAR RAM]

8 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

No mate. I'm realistic based on 140 years of football that our natural position isn't middle of the 3rd division. Two days to come back with that .  Must try harder.

Sorry I'm on holiday and not really that fussed about a 'come back'.

Not interested in what we have done in the last 140 years, dont we mock Forest for talking about the past?

Simple fact is we have been in League One for 2 season and the Championship for 14 seasons before that. 

If you think that makes us a big club that's your opinion. My opinion is that we are no longer a big club and have been overtaken, due to the money in the Premier League, by many clubs that I'm sure you'd refer to as minnows still. 

[strawhillram]

On 10/08/2023 at 04:08, RoyMac5 said:

I didn't say you did, did I? The statement was 'relating' to points being made on other threads about Warne admitting blame, although in that case not what he'd done wrong.

Times up sir

but I paid for the five minute argument

 no you didn’t

 yes I did 

no you didn’t

 yes I did

[RoyMac5]

42 minutes ago, strawhillram said:

Times up sir

but I paid for the five minute argument

 no you didn’t

 yes I did 

no you didn’t

 yes I did

I like to get my money's worth! 😄

We better bloody win tomorrow! #COYR

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Sorry I'm on holiday and not really that fussed about a 'come back'.

Not interested in what we have done in the last 140 years, dont we mock Forest for talking about the past?

Simple fact is we have been in League One for 2 season and the Championship for 14 seasons before that. 

If you think that makes us a big club that's your opinion. My opinion is that we are no longer a big club and have been overtaken, due to the money in the Premier League, by many clubs that I'm sure you'd refer to as minnows still. 

 I'm very interested in the history of the club I support.  If anything the fact your not makes you far more of a modern day opinionated fan than me mate.  Sorry to tell you. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

No mate. I'm realistic based on 140 years of football that our natural position isn't middle of the 3rd division. Two days to come back with that .  Must try harder.

No but it's also not our natural position to be entitled members of the Premier League or even the Championship for that matter. It should have been but for too many of the almost 80 years since the end of the Second WW, we have been an extremely poorly run club. For a while in the Clough & Taylor years we were well run but only through the success that they brought about and the income they generated. Tragically they were allowed to leave and it all went downhill quickly. Arthur Cox revived us but it was funded by the ill gotten gains of the Maxwell empire and their tenure was not met with a happy ending. Lionel revived us again and brought short-lived success but he frittered away his personal wealth doing so. Then came the robbing Three Amigos, from whose grasp we were rescued by the League of Gentlemen for a while. Since then the argument could be brokered that GSE ran us well when they applied austerity but I know that many would disagree with that view, because they found that approach unpopular and frustrating. Then came Mel and I will say nothing on that because most know the story.

We were founder members of the Football League. We've won the League, we've won the Cup but we were also the worst team in Premier League history and the heaviest losers in a Cup final. We can count ourselves lucky that our lowest position in the pyramid has been 51st and we have only endured six seasons in the third tier in our history. In the past sixty years from the current Premier League, Wolves, Sheffield United, Crystal Palace, Fulham, Brighton, Burnley, Brentford, Bournemouth and Luton have all played too many seasons in the fourth tier; Luton recently spent five seasons in the fifth tier. But all of them seem light years above us at the moment. It may take us a long time to overtake them but to achieve that we have to become a well run club again, which for too long has not been the Derby way. Without that, we are entitled to nothing. I think that David Clowes gets that and we owe him our patience.

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Brailsford Ram

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

10 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

No but it's also not our natural position to be entitled members of the Premier League or even the Championship for that matter. It should have been but for too many of the almost 80 years since the end of the Second WW, we have been an extremely poorly run club. For a while in the Clough & Taylor years we were well run but only through the success that they brought about and the income they generated. Tragically they were allowed to leave and it all went downhill quickly. Arthur Cox revived us but it was funded by the ill gotten gains of the Maxwell empire and their tenure was not met with a happy ending. Lionel revived us again and brought short-lived success but he frittered away his personal wealth doing so. Then came the robbing Three Amigos, from whose grasp we were rescued by the League of Gentlemen for a while. Since then the argument could be brokered that GSE ran us well when they applied austerity but I know that many would disagree with that view, because they found that approach unpopular and frustrating. Then came Mel and I will say nothing on that because most know the story.

We were founder members of the Football League. We've won the League, we've won the Cup but we were also the worst team in Premier League history and the heaviest losers in a Cup final. We can count ourselves lucky that our lowest position in the pyramid has been 51st and we have only endured six seasons in the third tier in our history. In the past sixty years from the current Premier League, Wolves, Sheffield United, Crystal Palace, Fulham, Brighton, Burnley, Brentford, Bournemouth and Luton have all played too many seasons in the fourth tier; Luton recently spent five seasons in the fifth tier. But all of them seem light years above us at the moment. It may take us a long time to overtake them but to achieve that we have to become a well run club again, which for too long has not been the Derby way. Without that, we are entitled to nothing. I think that David Clowes gets that and we owe him our patience.

 

With Watford and no goalie.  They trump us on that one.  Maxwell didn't actually fund us with ill gotten gains, he funded Spurs signing of Linekar whilst financially starving us.  He only started robbing his staff when he bought The New York Times after he bought us and funded us for a few years.  We've spent about 75 years in the top flight finishing in the top half regularly and indeed runner up twice. We have shown on two occasions in the last 30 years how quickly this club can move with the right choices on both occasion being close and indeed robbed of a UEFA cup place by a ban. We've also broke the transfer record with ins and outs on 3 occasions in that time.  My memory of football doesn't begin and end with one crap season which has left so many with a strange inferiority complex.  Wolves and Sheff utd would have the same opinion if you stuck them in with Luton and Brentford as per the above list. Probably Burnley as well I should think.. 

 

 

[G STAR RAM]

4 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

 I'm very interested in the history of the club I support.  If anything the fact your not makes you far more of a modern day opinionated fan than me mate.  Sorry to tell you. 

Our history has absolutely nothing to do with where we are as a club today.

I cant think of anyone further from a 'modern day fan' than me. I've pretty much turned off from football, more about a day out with my dad and my kids these days.

The fact that you think that the last 15 years plays no part in where we are at as a club just tells me you're delusional. Sorry to tell you.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Our history has absolutely nothing to do with where we are as a club today.

I cant think of anyone further from a 'modern day fan' than me. I've pretty much turned off from football, more about a day out with my dad and my kids these days.

The fact that you think that the last 15 years plays no part in where we are at as a club just tells me you're delusional. Sorry to tell you.

Of course it does, it's a constant.  That's why we 28k turning up.  It's based on the foundation of the club itself.   If you think that a 5 yr history for the likes of Brentford and Bournemouth equates to anything like a club the size of Derby, the games it's had, the players it's had and the managers it's had even then I give up.

You hate modern day football but can't see past 15 years when it come to your own. That really doesn't equate.  Leicester went from the 3rd tier to premier league champions in 4 seasons recently but Derby should accept that their lot is too sit in the 3rd tier with no identity as it doesn't matter and Brentford are a bigger club.

What a load of old drivel.😂