Martyn Waghorn - signed a 1-year deal

[Tyler Durden]

12 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

It’s not Warne that I’m moaning at. It’s the recruitment teams whose sole job for about 5 months was identifying targets for the summer. They haven’t done a good enough job, and we’re left in a desperate situation. It’s not what I want, it’s what the team needs.

I've worked a number of times with recruitment consultants. You give them a brief about the candidate you're looking for, qualifications and experience required then you give them the salary band that you are looking to pay.

They will very quickly come back and say you're not going to get that for the salary you're offering. So what you can do is either increase the salary (in our case that's not possible) or instead of a time served engineer you're trying to recruit you have to look at getting the next level down maybe a newly qualified apprenticeship.

The consultants will know this as they are fully aware of the current employment market. 

Warne said himself then he doesn't want bodies in unless they're better than what he has, so why does the above sound so unbelievable? That we've given our recruitment team a brief that's so narrow it's virtually impossible to achieve.

What they may have done is go back to Warne and tell him this is what you do get and Warne as quoted might have said nah I'll stick with what I've got thanks.

That's just where we are. 

Beefing about it isn't going to change things one iota. 

[Millenniumram]

7 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

What makes it a desperate situation? That’s the bit I’m struggling to see. I understand the quality McGoldrick brought to our forward line with his touch, poise, vision, footballing IQ, that’s hard to replace. His goals, potentially less difficult to replace, especially if you subscribe to the theory he only did his goal scoring against the rubbish teams.

Can you, or anyone else who feels the same, clarify what makes our current situation such a desperate one please? I’m open to other views but don’t see it as bleak as others do so help me to see it from your perspective please?

You sum it up in your first paragraph really. We have to replace McGoldricks goals. Look across our squad right now… where are the goals coming from? Mendez-Laing will get some, Barkhuizen maybe if we get something more out of him, Hourihane will score a few screamers, Washington will grab maybe 10 at best. But beyond that, you’re hoping for Collins to somehow find his form from years back. I just don’t see it happening.

We don’t have goals in midfield, so in the 3-5-2 pretty much all our goals need to come from the front 2. At the moment, I’m struggling to see more than 30 goals from our existing frontline in total. That’s nowhere near enough. It’s all well and good having this new and improved defence, but you don’t succeed in football without scoring goals. We have to get improve our strike force or we’ll be languishing in lower mid table imo. Time is running out, and so are the options on the market. The fact we’re scrapping around for the likes of Waghorn and Rhodes shows we’re getting desperate. You can see it in Warne’s interviews how frustrated he is.

[Millenniumram]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I've worked a number of times with recruitment consultants. You give them a brief about the candidate you're looking for, qualifications and experience required then you give them the salary band that you are looking to pay.

They will very quickly come back and say you're not going to get that for the salary you're offering. So what you can do is either increase the salary (in our case that's not possible) or instead of a time served engineer you're trying to recruit you have to look at getting the next level down maybe a newly qualified apprenticeship.

The consultants will know this as they are fully aware of the current employment market. 

Warne said himself then he doesn't want bodies in unless they're better than what he has, so why does the above sound so unbelievable? That we've given our recruitment team a brief that's so narrow it's virtually impossible to achieve.

What they may have done is go back to Warne and tell him this is what you do get and Warne as quoted might have said nah I'll stick with what I've got thanks.

That's just where we are. 

Beefing about it isn't going to change things one iota. 

I don’t dispute how the recruitment will work. I dispute us not having the budget to find a striker that improves on our current (frankly awful) forward options. Clowes himself has said we have a budget capable of securing promotion. It shouldn’t be impossible to find a player who improves on James bloody Collins with that sort of budget. 

Warne certainly isn’t happy with sticking with what we have either. You can hear in his interviews that he’s concerned about our attacking options. He knows as well as I do that they’re not good enough to achieve promotion. It’s not good enough from the recruitment team that’s we’re in this situation one week before the season starts. This isn’t just a minor signing we’re missing, this is the most important signing We’ve needed all window - a replacement for McGoldrick.

[DCFC1388]

20 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

It’s not Warne that I’m moaning at. It’s the recruitment teams whose sole job for about 5 months was identifying targets for the summer. They haven’t done a good enough job, and we’re left in a desperate situation. It’s not what I want, it’s what the team needs.

Just because we havent signed strikers it doesnt mean they havent done a good enough job.

I would think Washington was pretty high up on Warne's list considering he signed him last summer too.

But just because we havent signed anyone else doesnt mean they havent done their job. Ultimately Warne has to want the player after speaking to them & if he does want them then players may choose to stay at their current club & sit out their deal, they may want a move closer to home or maybe they wanted more money or a longer contract. There are so many variables to a deal not just that our recruitment team hasnt done a good enough job.

[Tyler Durden]

3 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

I don’t dispute how the recruitment will work. I dispute us not having the budget to find a striker that improves on our current (frankly awful) forward options. Clowes himself has said we have a budget capable of securing promotion. It shouldn’t be impossible to find a player who improves on James bloody Collins with that sort of budget. 

Warne certainly isn’t happy with sticking with what we have either. You can hear in his interviews that he’s concerned about our attacking options. He knows as well as I do that they’re not good enough to achieve promotion. It’s not good enough from the recruitment team that’s we’re in this situation one week before the season starts. This isn’t just a minor signing we’re missing, this is the most important signing We’ve needed all window - a replacement for McGoldrick.

Did Clowes actually say that. Or did he say that we have a competitive budget for League 1.

Two vastly differing statements. 

[DCFC1388]

Even if McGoldrick had stayed, there is no guarantee he will have scored as many goals next season. 

Same people moaning we havent replaced his goals are also moaning about the likes of Rhodes & Waghorn being linked and their ages yet they are younger than when McGoldrick signed

[DiggerB]

1 hour ago, jono said:

29 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

It’s not Warne that I’m moaning at. It’s the recruitment teams whose sole job for about 5 months was identifying targets for the summer. They haven’t done a good enough job, and we’re left in a desperate situation. It’s not what I want, it’s what the team needs.

 

How do you know who the recruitment team did or didn’t identify, other than the targets that we’ve signed? 

 

[Caerphilly Ram]

18 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

You sum it up in your first paragraph really. We have to replace McGoldricks goals. Look across our squad right now… where are the goals coming from? Mendez-Laing will get some, Barkhuizen maybe if we get something more out of him, Hourihane will score a few screamers, Washington will grab maybe 10 at best. But beyond that, you’re hoping for Collins to somehow find his form from years back. I just don’t see it happening.

We don’t have goals in midfield, so in the 3-5-2 pretty much all our goals need to come from the front 2. At the moment, I’m struggling to see more than 30 goals from our existing frontline in total. That’s nowhere near enough. It’s all well and good having this new and improved defence, but you don’t succeed in football without scoring goals. We have to get improve our strike force or we’ll be languishing in lower mid table imo. Time is running out, and so are the options on the market. The fact we’re scrapping around for the likes of Waghorn and Rhodes shows we’re getting desperate. You can see it in Warne’s interviews how frustrated he is.

He is frustrated, but that’s the situation we’re in. He and the club are trying to find the right players, and seemingly are coming up against barriers and so rather than focusing on the problem as some of our fans are keen to do they’re looking at solutions. Of which the potential is some ageing but capable strikers and/or young loans we have to wait for. It’s circumstance, it’s not about blame, that’s just where we find ourselves.

Let’s say replacing McGoldrick’s goals is a maths problem. We need to find a way to replace those 25 goals. Let’s say your prediction for Washington is accurate and he scores 10. Now we’re looking to replace 15 goals. Sibley scored 6 in all competitions last season, a large % of his games played out of position. If he starts in a more advanced role could he score more? Lots of our fans say he can, let’s give him a bit of credit and say 3 more goals. Now we’re looking for 12 more. NML looked frightening at the front end of the season then burned out in the second half, we’ve got better options down that right side so he shouldn’t have to play rwb. He scored 7 league goals, let’s back him to score another 3 on top this season giving him a nice round 10 goals, now we need 9 more. Let’s say Waghorn signs and manages to shin a few in, 5 goals. Now we need 4 from the team. Joe Ward scored 7 last year for Peterborough, maybe he chips in with 3 goals….

That’s why I don’t see it as a “desperate situation”, people are keen to hang onto this notion that we haven’t replaced McGoldrick’s goals because we haven’t signed a like for like replacement. It is reasonable and realistic to see where there are goals within the current squad, we might not have the luxury of watching McGoldrick oozing class, but we’ll carry a threat throughout the season and still score goals in my opinion.

A desperate situation would be having little to no evidence of goals from anyone in the team, or an unproven youngster (Plange), a journeyman striker (Kazim), and one Tom Lawrence to call upon such as when the club was actually in a desperate situation under Rooney. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Caerphilly Ram

[Wolfie20]

There seems to be an assumption on the part of some posters that we need to replace all of Didzy's goal total for last season but this isn't necessarily the case. A tighter defence, particularly in the crunch games against other likely playoff opposition could mean we score fewer goals yet gain more points - let's not forget over a quarter of his league goals came in 2 games against teams which finished 22nd and 24th in the league, where there was a 9-0 aggregate scoreline.

I'm certainly not decrying his contribution last season - he was a class above every other member of our squad and produced much of the entertainment throughout the season - but I'm far from being convinced that we have to replace his 22 league goals for us to have a successful season and yes I'd still like to see us sign a young striker with pace to increase our attacking options.

[RoyMac5]

21 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

...Warne certainly isn’t happy with sticking with what we have either. You can hear in his interviews that he’s concerned about our attacking options. He knows as well as I do that they’re not good enough to achieve promotion. It’s not good enough from the recruitment team that’s we’re in this situation one week before the season starts. This isn’t just a minor signing we’re missing, this is the most important signing We’ve needed all window - a replacement for McGoldrick.

What we want and what we get look like being two different things.

However, what you aren't considering is that instead of one player = Didzy, we now look at having to make two (combined) players = Didzy. And I think we have so far recruited, and already have, the players to do that. Not necessarily with the desired fanciness but with the desired efficiency.

We already now have the players in the squad to do the job and I don't doubt we will bring others in.

Edited July 30, 2023 by RoyMac5

[bucktwo]

6 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

desperate situation would be having little to no evidence of goals from anyone in the team, or an unproven youngster (Plange), a journeyman striker (Kazim), and one Tom Lawrence to call upon such as when the club was actually in a desperate situation under Rooney. 

The thought of Lawrence has just sent a shiver down my spine .....

However it would be a quality focus for all the negative vibes if he did re sign !!! 

BOO!

[Eddie]

34 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

Just because we havent signed strikers it doesnt mean they havent done a good enough job.

I would think Washington was pretty high up on Warne's list considering he signed him last summer too.

But just because we havent signed anyone else doesnt mean they havent done their job. Ultimately Warne has to want the player after speaking to them & if he does want them then players may choose to stay at their current club & sit out their deal, they may want a move closer to home or maybe they wanted more money or a longer contract. There are so many variables to a deal not just that our recruitment team hasnt done a good enough job.

Indeed.

We might well have made offers to clubs/out of contract players and been knocked back.

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

James bloody Collins

Probably not meant with any great loathing but the fact that you've even included a phrase like this one suggests you've lost perspective, both in terms of what's available (to us at least given the financial limitations and other options on the table for the forwards we might be after) and in terms of what Collins has to offer. I haven't kept quiet about some of my frustrations regarding Collins' decision-making over the last 12 months but if you think he's that bad, in League 1, I think you're deluded. We could do a lot worse and if we made him available I'm pretty sure there'd be a few decent League 1 clubs who'd be interested!

[trekkie_ram]

There are some wristslashers on this forum…. It makes me sad.

We clearly have very good players at this level, and 1st, 2nd, 6th or 10th are settled on fine margins.  Collins is potentially a 20+ striker with the right rub.

I don’t doubt we’ll score plenty.

I don’t doubt that the average fan is thick as mince.  It bores me.

Have the common sense to see that we’re trying to recruit the players to win promotion and ideally the league.

[i-Ram]

4 minutes ago, trekkie_ram said:

There are some wristslashers on this forum…. It makes me sad.

We clearly have very good players at this level, and 1st, 2nd, 6th or 10th are settled on fine margins.  Collins is potentially a 20+ striker with the right rub.

I don’t doubt we’ll score plenty.

I don’t doubt that the average fan is thick as mince.  It bores me.

Have the common sense to see that we’re trying to recruit the players to win promotion and ideally the league.

What is an average fan, and what kind of meat is your hypothetical mince? I hope with your answers I can work out if I am a Lidl lamb kebab or a Fortnum & Mason fillet steak tartare.

[Tyler Durden]

I remember when Dean Holdsworth was our assistant manager under Phil Brown and he had to play 3 games as a striker when he was 36? As we didn't have any other players available.

And some folks think we've got it bad now trying get Waghorn back. 

[Gisby]

6 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

What is an average fan, and what kind of meat is your hypothetical mince? I hope with your answers I can work out if I am a Lidl lamb kebab or a Fortnum & Mason fillet steak tartare.

Perhaps best if you don’t get the answer to your question as it might not be the one you wanted to hear!!! Just sayin!!! 😊😊

[stejawh]

54 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I remember when Dean Holdsworth was our assistant manager under Phil Brown and he had to play 3 games as a striker when he was 36? As we didn't have any other players available.

And some folks think we've got it bad now trying get Waghorn back. 

Sure he came on as a sweeper at Leeds away? think Rob Hulse might have got a hat-trick against us.  Grim day

[cheron85]

1 hour ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Let’s say replacing McGoldrick’s goals is a maths problem. We need to find a way to replace those 25 goals. 

If it's a maths problem then no, we don't

I think there were 8 games last season where McGoldrick goals changed the result of a game - not 22 games - And I think 4 of those were in the last 10 games where the whole squad looked knackered and that class was needed all the more

Bigger, stronger squad with more strength in dept this season - I'm not excited about missing a 20 goal a season striker - I'm not excited about losing the class up top - but it's not a necessity by a long shot - a 10 goal a season striker won't replace the total goals McGoldrick scored but they could replace the results...

[jono]

34 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

I’m pretty sure how we will fair with the current attack, and Warne knows too - it won’t be promotion.

I don’t want to see us fail, but that’s exactly what will happen unless we sort this recruitment out. That’s not rubbish, that’s where we stand.

That’s your view. As I see it we have added attacking threat, we have recruited wingbacks, we will be playing to a style that works for Warne and his new recruits are on board with. As per last season, we are in with a shout and probably a slightly better one than last time. Warne knows this league and knows what to do. And don’t forget, other teams and competitors will be facing the same issues. A prediction of “failure” isn’t just pessimistic its doomsaying with no good reason.