James Collins

[Day]

51 minutes ago, Raich Carter said:

Like McG who got 20+ for us the season before. And if we stay in League One and put another bog standard forward up front next season, he'll get 20+ in a season too. Which is kinda my point - Collins and McG have both had their best seasons ever* in this team. The common denominator is the team. Ergo, it's the team, not the player.

They're ok players - made to look better by having decent supply albeit in a team that's not quite gelled.

Based on what I've seen of Collins, he's ok at this level but let's not carried away over one good finish as he's missed loads - that's all I'm saying. But it's fine - you lot crack on making out Collins to be Didier Drogba. I'll stay over here in my reality corner.

*Admittedly, Collins had a decent scoring record in League One in a good Luton side previously but my point is based on what I've seen of his general play.

It’s interesting because in the Warne out topics you will find others argue till they are blue in the face that McGoldrick and Collins have bailed Warne out.

Yet here we are in another corner of the internet where it’s not the individuals but the team that’s inflating “bog standard” players stats.

Could it not be, Warne is a decent manager at this level, Collins is a decent striker and we have a decent team hence why we find ourselves at the top end of the table fighting for promotion.

[CornwallRam]

Collins' problem is that he gets fed up waiting for the ball and leaves the centre forward position vacant far too often. That's we he is usually average - he's playing as winger/midfielder for 30 minutes a game.

When he's where he should be, he's excellent at this level. Aggressive, quick enough over 5 yards, good in the air and pretty clinical. 

I wonder how much of the positioning issue would disappear if we created more in midfield?

[Day]

5 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Fair enough - by that metric he is certainly more than "ok"

But I think I can assume that the majority on this forum would swap him for a Cole/Bishop/May/Ladapo/JCH if given the option. 

I like him a lot. Love his run rate. Love his effort. He bullies defenders which is great to see. I just don't think we should hang our hat on him.

We know Warne is not happy with his forward options as he’s looking to sign one before the end of the day on loan.

Given Waghorn will have left in the summer as well, I think we’re nailed on to be signing a new striker in the summer regardless of division.

Division will simply dictate the level of striker we can get, with no restrictions in place. Warne has also openly talked about improving the team as well so I just don’t see the need to worry about next season just yet.

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 hour ago, Nuwtfly said:

Is there an argument to say that Collins scoring that many goals says more about the standard of opposition than his ability? After all, it's actually about 13 goals in the league I believe? 

Looking at the list of top scorers in League One this season, there's names in there even above Collins who have been either deemed surplus by Championship clubs or who have failed to do it in the league above time and time again.

He's done well this season, don't get me wrong. He's had a lot of opportunities to. But you would surely be concerned if we went into next season (lets say in the Championship) with him as our main no.9?

I would like us to have a new, younger, potentially more mobile/pacier striker as part of the squad next season regardless of what league we’re in, and I’d also be happy to have Collins in the squad regardless of league.

I (think) I’ve been consistent in my praise of him since he joined, good goal record in his career, looks after himself physically, has a bit of bite and needle in him whilst still seeming to be a “good pro”. Would be a good squad option in my opinion wherever we are next season, and deserves praise for his availability, effort and contributions this season. Why anyone (not you) looks to put the bloke down just baffles me.

[Raich Carter]

2 hours ago, YorkshireRam said:

2018/19 Collins scored 25 goals at this level for Luton, Didzy's best season was likely 20/21 where he scored 8 in the PL, each goal there is worth 3/4 at this level. 

It's a bizarrely reductionist argument to try and discredit individual achievement. Rather we should be grateful to have had 2 players that are capable of hitting 20+ league goals a season? 

<sigh>Ok, Collins is the new Drogba. Not a pretty average L1 striker. And McG was misunderstood his entire career apart from 2 seasons where he had a good goal scoring record. In 15+. Kinda getting away from my point but I'm not discrediting - just trying to temper the over-the-top comments about Collins, that's all. 

Honestly, I'm just saying that he's getting plenty of chances so let's not make him out to be something his not. That was it. 

A Ford Focus is a bog standard car. He's a Ford Focus of a player. He's 33 and playing in League eff'ing One! It might be harsh but it's true. Yet he's a million times better player than I'd ever be - harsh but true! 

[Raich Carter]

2 hours ago, David said:

It’s interesting because in the Warne out topics you will find others argue till they are blue in the face that McGoldrick and Collins have bailed Warne out.

Yet here we are in another corner of the internet where it’s not the individuals but the team that’s inflating “bog standard” players stats.

Could it not be, Warne is a decent manager at this level, Collins is a decent striker and we have a decent team hence why we find ourselves at the top end of the table fighting for promotion.

Kinda what I said. In my mind, at least. 

[LeedsCityRam]

3 hours ago, Nuwtfly said:

Is there an argument to say that Collins scoring that many goals says more about the standard of opposition than his ability? After all, it's actually about 13 goals in the league I believe? 

He's done well this season, don't get me wrong. He's had a lot of opportunities to. But you would surely be concerned if we went into next season (lets say in the Championship) with him as our main no.9?

Is that actually the case? Genuinely don't know but my impression is that he doesn't get that many opportunities hence why he drifts out to the wings/into midfield to get involved (I'm assuming you mean opportunities as chances rather than games btw). I suspect his conversion rate is actually pretty good but happy for that to be challenged with actual stats.

I like the guy - he's a good finisher, a hard worker & you can tell he cares. He's set for 20 odd league goals this season & I don't believe without him we would be top 6. Re next season - i would definitely offer him another contract albeit purely as a backup if we went up. I don't think anyone would imagine for a second we would start a Championship season with Collins as our main number 9, nor would we need to given the changed financial landscape next season if we went up.

Edited February 1 by LeedsCityRam

[Caerphilly Ram]

21 minutes ago, Raich Carter said:

<sigh>Ok, Collins is the new Drogba. Not a pretty average L1 striker. And McG was misunderstood his entire career apart from 2 seasons where he had a good goal scoring record. In 15+. Kinda getting away from my point but I'm not discrediting - just trying to temper the over-the-top comments about Collins, that's all. 

Honestly, I'm just saying that he's getting plenty of chances so let's not make him out to be something his not. That was it. 

A Ford Focus is a bog standard car. He's a Ford Focus of a player. He's 33 and playing in League eff'ing One! It might be harsh but it's true. Yet he's a million times better player than I'd ever be - harsh but true! 

Who at any point has said he’s the “new Drogba?” It’s like you’re fighting an argument that isn’t there. Which over the top comments have there been? 

All the positives I’ve seen anyone say is that he’s doing a good job for us this season, which meets the standards you’re describing. 

 

[YorkshireRam]

20 minutes ago, Raich Carter said:

<sigh>Ok, Collins is the new Drogba. Not a pretty average L1 striker. And McG was misunderstood his entire career apart from 2 seasons where he had a good goal scoring record. In 15+. Kinda getting away from my point but I'm not discrediting - just trying to temper the over-the-top comments about Collins, that's all. 

Honestly, I'm just saying that he's getting plenty of chances so let's not make him out to be something his not. That was it. 

A Ford Focus is a bog standard car. He's a Ford Focus of a player. He's 33 and playing in League eff'ing One! It might be harsh but it's true. Yet he's a million times better player than I'd ever be - harsh but true! 

Sensationalism doesn't change the facts. I've not seen anyone saying anything daft about Collins, certainly not over-praising to the same extent he was vilified and overly-criticised before.

How many chances did he get against Cheltenham? 1... and he scored it. So from our most recent example, this argument falls flat on its face. 

Yes, compared to Messi, he's distinctly mediocre as a footballer. But for the level we're at, and what he's giving to the club, he's been a star this season, and deserves the praise he's getting. 

[May Contain Nuts]

13 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I suspect his conversion rate is actually pretty good but happy for that to be challenged with actual stats.

I had a quick look at that earlier hoping for better results, although you've got to remember that a shot isn't necessarily a chance and I can't really remember him missing loads of good chances

https://fbref.com/en/comps/15/shooting/League-One-Stats (no. 54)

[Animal is a Ram]

Our top three 'clinical' players by this metric:

Waghorn, Forsyth, Barkhuizen. 😅

 

[Spanish]

20 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Who at any point has said he’s the “new Drogba?” It’s like you’re fighting an argument that isn’t there. Which over the top comments have there been? 

All the positives I’ve seen anyone say is that he’s doing a good job for us this season, which meets the standards you’re describing. 

 

But apparently he is just L1 average wish we had a few more average players in the 11😀

[AndyinLiverpool]

3 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

Our top three 'clinical' players by this metric:

Waghorn, Forsyth, Barkhuizen. 😅

 

The Waghorn stat is skewed by that mad half hour at Peterbrough

[Grumpy Git]

4 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

The Waghorn stat is skewed by that mad half hour at Peterbrough

It wasn't even a half hour, it was 15 minutes! 😄

 

[DCFC Kicks]

19 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

I had a quick look at that earlier hoping for better results, although you've got to remember that a shot isn't necessarily a chance and I can't really remember him missing loads of good chances

https://fbref.com/en/comps/15/shooting/League-One-Stats (no. 54)

Oh god, please don't let @Chris_Martin see this. 

[Raich Carter]

1 hour ago, YorkshireRam said:

Sensationalism doesn't change the facts. I've not seen anyone saying anything daft about Collins, certainly not over-praising to the same extent he was vilified and overly-criticised before.

How many chances did he get against Cheltenham? 1... and he scored it. So from our most recent example, this argument falls flat on its face. 

Yes, compared to Messi, he's distinctly mediocre as a footballer. But for the level we're at, and what he's giving to the club, he's been a star this season, and deserves the praise he's getting. 

You can't say "Sensationalism doesn't change the facts" and then in the next breath say "How many chances did he get against Cheltenham? 1... and he scored it". You are literally using sensationalism to change the facts!

And the facts are (as illustrated above) his chance to goal ratio isn't great. The stats say it, we've seen it. 

Anyway, this is done to death. You'll hear no more from me. 

Edited February 1 by Raich Carter

[Chris_Martin]

1 hour ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Oh god, please don't let @Chris_Martin see this. 

[Chris_Martin]

2 hours ago, YorkshireRam said:

for the level we're at, and what he's giving to the club, he's been a star this season, and deserves the praise he's getting. 

[Chris_Martin]

3 hours ago, YorkshireRam said:

Yes, compared to Messi, he's distinctly mediocre as a footballer. But for the level we're at, and what he's giving to the club, he's been a star this season, and deserves the praise he's getting. 

taking away penalties, he has 9 league goals in 29 games. Worse than 1 in 3. 

What exactly makes him a 'star' this season?

[Foreveram]

55 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

taking away penalties, he has 9 league goals in 29 games. Worse than 1 in 3. 

What exactly makes him a 'star' this season?

Why would you take away the penalties.