Worse Derby Managers

[Eddie]

Only one name for me. TD.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

How much did Jewell squander?! Davies wanted to sign players for our Prem squad that we wouldn't pay the price for and/or didn't see the point in coming to play for us.

Who did Jewell assemble?!

Jewell was allowed to spend £3.5m but brought in £2.25m in trying to retrieve the hopeless situation. Davies had spent £11.5 m bringing in Earnshaw, Claude Davis, Mears, Todd, Feilhaber and Miller. He recouped £350k by selling Ryan Smith and Lee Camp.

Here are all of the transactions. It tells a sorry tale but how you can seek to defend Davies and lay it at Jewell's door is beyond me.

Summer 2007 transfer window (Davies)

In

29 June 2007 – Robert Earnshaw – £3.5m, from Norwich City

4 July 2007 – Tyrone Mears – £1m, from West Ham United

7 July 2007 – Andy Todd – £750k, from Blackburn Rovers

10 July 2007 – Ben Hinchliffe – free transfer

25 July 2007 – Claude Davis – £3m, from Sheffield United

26 July 2007 – Lewis Price – undisclosed, from Ipswich Town

1 August 2007 – Andy Griffin – free transfer from Portsmouth

10 August 2007 – Benny Feilhaber – undisclosed, from Hamburg

20 August 2007 – Eddie Lewis – undisclosed, from Leeds United

31 August 2007 – Kenny Miller – £2.25m, from Celtic

Out

31 May 2007 – Seth Johnson – retirement

31 May 2007 – Lionel Ainsworth – released

31 May 2007 – Morten Bisgaard – released

31 May 2007 – Paul Boertien – released

31 May 2007 – Steven Cann – released

31 May 2007 – Tom Cumberworth – released

31 May 2007 – Lee Grant – released

5 July 2007 – Ryan Smith – £150k, to Millwall

27 July 2007 – Lee Camp – £200k, to Queens Park Rangers

31 July 2007 – James Meredith – free transfer to Sligo Rovers

8 August 2007 – Richard Jackson – free transfer to Luton Town

January 2008 transfer window (Jewell)

In

4 January 2008 – Danny Mills – on loan from Manchester City

4 January 2008 – Emanuel Villa – £2m, from Estudiantes Tecos

9 January 2008 – Laurent Robert – free transfer

9 January 2008 – Robbie Savage – £1.5m, from Blackburn Rovers

11 January 2008 – Hossam Ghaly – on loan from Tottenham Hotspur

31 January 2008 – Roy Carroll – free transfer from Rangers

31 January 2008 – Mile Sterjovski – undisclosed, from Gençlerbirliği

31 January 2008 – Alan Stubbs – free transfer from Everton

11 April 2008 – Ruben Zadkovich – free transfer from Sydney 

Out

3 January 2008 – Steve Howard – £1.25m, to Leicester City

11 January 2008 – Andy Griffin – £300k, to Stoke City

11 January 2008 – Matt Oakley – £500k, to Leicester City

28 January 2008 – Jon Macken – £200k, to Barnsley

31 January 2008 – Bob Malcolm – contract terminated

31 January 2008 – Lewin Nyatanga – loan to Barnsley

29 February 2008 – Michael Johnson – loan to Notts County

2 April 2008 – Laurent Robert – free transfer to Toronto FC

 

[Ram-a-lama fa fa fa]

4 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Jewell was allowed to spend £3.5m but brought in £2.25m in trying to retrieve the hopeless situation. Davies had spent £11.5 m bringing in Earnshaw, Claude Davis, Mears, Todd, Feilhaber and Miller. He recouped £350k by selling Ryan Smith and Lee Camp.

Here are all of the transactions. It tells a sorry tale but how you can seek to defend Davies and lay it at Jewell's door is beyond me.

Summer 2007 transfer window (Davies)

In

29 June 2007 – Robert Earnshaw – £3.5m, from Norwich City

4 July 2007 – Tyrone Mears – £1m, from West Ham United

7 July 2007 – Andy Todd – £750k, from Blackburn Rovers

10 July 2007 – Ben Hinchliffe – free transfer

25 July 2007 – Claude Davis – £3m, from Sheffield United

26 July 2007 – Lewis Price – undisclosed, from Ipswich Town

1 August 2007 – Andy Griffin – free transfer from Portsmouth

10 August 2007 – Benny Feilhaber – undisclosed, from Hamburg

20 August 2007 – Eddie Lewis – undisclosed, from Leeds United

31 August 2007 – Kenny Miller – £2.25m, from Celtic

Out

31 May 2007 – Seth Johnson – retirement

31 May 2007 – Lionel Ainsworth – released

31 May 2007 – Morten Bisgaard – released

31 May 2007 – Paul Boertien – released

31 May 2007 – Steven Cann – released

31 May 2007 – Tom Cumberworth – released

31 May 2007 – Lee Grant – released

5 July 2007 – Ryan Smith – £150k, to Millwall

27 July 2007 – Lee Camp – £200k, to Queens Park Rangers

31 July 2007 – James Meredith – free transfer to Sligo Rovers

8 August 2007 – Richard Jackson – free transfer to Luton Town

January 2008 transfer window (Jewell)

In

4 January 2008 – Danny Mills – on loan from Manchester City

4 January 2008 – Emanuel Villa – £2m, from Estudiantes Tecos

9 January 2008 – Laurent Robert – free transfer

9 January 2008 – Robbie Savage – £1.5m, from Blackburn Rovers

11 January 2008 – Hossam Ghaly – on loan from Tottenham Hotspur

31 January 2008 – Roy Carroll – free transfer from Rangers

31 January 2008 – Mile Sterjovski – undisclosed, from Gençlerbirliği

31 January 2008 – Alan Stubbs – free transfer from Everton

11 April 2008 – Ruben Zadkovich – free transfer from Sydney 

Out

3 January 2008 – Steve Howard – £1.25m, to Leicester City

11 January 2008 – Andy Griffin – £300k, to Stoke City

11 January 2008 – Matt Oakley – £500k, to Leicester City

28 January 2008 – Jon Macken – £200k, to Barnsley

31 January 2008 – Bob Malcolm – contract terminated

31 January 2008 – Lewin Nyatanga – loan to Barnsley

29 February 2008 – Michael Johnson – loan to Notts County

2 April 2008 – Laurent Robert – free transfer to Toronto FC

 

jesus christ thats grim reading

[Van der MoodHoover]

29 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Davies wanted to sign players for our Prem squad that we wouldn't pay the price for and/or who didn't see the point in coming to play for us.

How much did Jewell squander?! Who did Jewell assemble?!

Jewell bought in all those duff loans in the 2nd half of that season. Laurent Robert, Danny Mills the chap from Spurs......

Basically didn't he spaff a load of cash, frighten the new investors GSE and cause them to batten down the financial hatches?

We then were forced to get excited about the arrivals of Paul Green and Paul Connolly among others in the summer.....

[RadioactiveWaste]

11 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Jewell bought in all those duff loans in the 2nd half of that season. Laurent Robert, Danny Mills the chap from Spurs......

Basically didn't he spaff a load of cash, frighten the new investors GSE and cause them to batten down the financial hatches?

We then were forced to get excited about the arrivals of Paul Green and Paul Connolly among others in the summer.....

It was the summer after that was so draining......

[Guest]

c*** up Cocu for me, on another planet.

I worked with a guy that was an apprentice at Derby under Murphy.  Said he was the nastiest foul mouthed man he ever met, was a complete shock after Mackay, started the rot that the Doc continued…

[vonwright]

56 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Jewell was allowed to spend £3.5m but brought in £2.25m in trying to retrieve the hopeless situation. Davies had spent £11.5 m bringing in Earnshaw, Claude Davis, Mears, Todd, Feilhaber and Miller. He recouped £350k by selling Ryan Smith and Lee Camp.

Here are all of the transactions. It tells a sorry tale but how you can seek to defend Davies and lay it at Jewell's door is beyond me.

Summer 2007 transfer window (Davies)

In

29 June 2007 – Robert Earnshaw – £3.5m, from Norwich City

4 July 2007 – Tyrone Mears – £1m, from West Ham United

7 July 2007 – Andy Todd – £750k, from Blackburn Rovers

10 July 2007 – Ben Hinchliffe – free transfer

25 July 2007 – Claude Davis – £3m, from Sheffield United

26 July 2007 – Lewis Price – undisclosed, from Ipswich Town

1 August 2007 – Andy Griffin – free transfer from Portsmouth

10 August 2007 – Benny Feilhaber – undisclosed, from Hamburg

20 August 2007 – Eddie Lewis – undisclosed, from Leeds United

31 August 2007 – Kenny Miller – £2.25m, from Celtic

Out

31 May 2007 – Seth Johnson – retirement

31 May 2007 – Lionel Ainsworth – released

31 May 2007 – Morten Bisgaard – released

31 May 2007 – Paul Boertien – released

31 May 2007 – Steven Cann – released

31 May 2007 – Tom Cumberworth – released

31 May 2007 – Lee Grant – released

5 July 2007 – Ryan Smith – £150k, to Millwall

27 July 2007 – Lee Camp – £200k, to Queens Park Rangers

31 July 2007 – James Meredith – free transfer to Sligo Rovers

8 August 2007 – Richard Jackson – free transfer to Luton Town

January 2008 transfer window (Jewell)

In

4 January 2008 – Danny Mills – on loan from Manchester City

4 January 2008 – Emanuel Villa – £2m, from Estudiantes Tecos

9 January 2008 – Laurent Robert – free transfer

9 January 2008 – Robbie Savage – £1.5m, from Blackburn Rovers

11 January 2008 – Hossam Ghaly – on loan from Tottenham Hotspur

31 January 2008 – Roy Carroll – free transfer from Rangers

31 January 2008 – Mile Sterjovski – undisclosed, from Gençlerbirliği

31 January 2008 – Alan Stubbs – free transfer from Everton

11 April 2008 – Ruben Zadkovich – free transfer from Sydney 

Out

3 January 2008 – Steve Howard – £1.25m, to Leicester City

11 January 2008 – Andy Griffin – £300k, to Stoke City

11 January 2008 – Matt Oakley – £500k, to Leicester City

28 January 2008 – Jon Macken – £200k, to Barnsley

31 January 2008 – Bob Malcolm – contract terminated

31 January 2008 – Lewin Nyatanga – loan to Barnsley

29 February 2008 – Michael Johnson – loan to Notts County

2 April 2008 – Laurent Robert – free transfer to Toronto FC

 

You make it sound like the £11m we spent under Davies was a lot of money. Let's look at the teams promoted with us. Sunderland (who had a much better squad to start with) spent £11m just on a goalkeeper. They spent a total of £50m to £60m and stayed up.

Birmingham also had a much better squad than us. They spent about £30m and were relegated, one place above us. 

We needed to spend a lot more than we did to have any chance of staying up. Davies was tactically limited, a seemingly unpleasant/arrogant man, and terrible at the politics of football. But the board hung him out to dry that season and no one would have kept us up with £11m to spend.

[vonwright]

52 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Jewell bought in all those duff loans in the 2nd half of that season. Laurent Robert, Danny Mills the chap from Spurs......

Basically didn't he spaff a load of cash, frighten the new investors GSE and cause them to batten down the financial hatches?

We then were forced to get excited about the arrivals of Paul Green and Paul Connolly among others in the summer.....

Yes. Jewell's spending in January wasn't transfer fees but was terrible and expensive loans. Robert was probably the worst example. He was awful. Mills wasn't much better. 

He also sold Steve Howard who wasn't up to the Premier League but might have been useful in the Championship. 

He then wasted what money was available back in the Championship on a load or terrible free transfers who proved a) not good and b) hard to get rid of, plus decent sized fees for Dickinson (remember him?) and Porter. 

[uttoxram75]

6 hours ago, The Last Post said:

 

Christ on a bike 😡 I thought I'd forgotten about this episode in DCFCs history

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-tommy-docherty-rams-978793

Bloody hell Alf.

I grew up watching world class players like McFarland, Hector, Todd, Gemmill, George, etc and ended up with Billy Caskey and Vic Moreland. 

I think that was when many of us turned to football hooliganism as an escape.

[cannable]

Thought it was common knowledge that Davies didn’t sign Earnshaw. Having missed out on Nugent and Kenwyne Jones, Earnshaw was a ‘present’.

[cannable]

3 minutes ago, vonwright said:

Yes. Jewell's spending in January wasn't transfer fees but was terrible and expensive loans. Robert was probably the worst example. He was awful. Mills wasn't much better. 

He also sold Steve Howard who wasn't up to the Premier League but might have been useful in the Championship. 

He then wasted what money was available back in the Championship on a load or terrible free transfers who proved a) not good and b) hard to get rid of, plus decent sized fees for Dickinson (remember him?) and Porter. 

Meh, that was my argument for not selling Howard as well, at the time. I think I actually preferred Hulse though. He did it in a bad Derby side. Howard did it in a good one.

[vonwright]

5 minutes ago, cannable said:

Meh, that was my argument for not selling Howard as well, at the time. I think I actually preferred Hulse though. He did it in a bad Derby side. Howard did it in a good one.

True. Hulse was excellent. 

[islandram]

13 hours ago, BobdeBilder said:

Tommy Docherty. End of conversation.

For us older guys the doc ripped a really good team apart and blamed everyone else . I remember Colin Addison completely out of his depth 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, vonwright said:

You make it sound like the £11m we spent under Davies was a lot of money. Let's look at the teams promoted with us. Sunderland (who had a much better squad to start with) spent £11m just on a goalkeeper. They spent a total of £50m to £60m and stayed up.

Birmingham also had a much better squad than us. They spent about £30m and were relegated, one place above us. 

We needed to spend a lot more than we did to have any chance of staying up. Davies was tactically limited, a seemingly unpleasant/arrogant man, and terrible at the politics of football. But the board hung him out to dry that season and no one would have kept us up with £11m to spend.

No, Davies had demanded more money from the board in the promotion season to get us up. The board gave it to him but it was borrowed against the windfall from the PL; it was a gamble. Davies knew his budget going up and peed most of it away on Earnshaw and Claud Davis. After Wembley there was a majority of the board wanted to sack Davies because of his behaviour but Gadsby said no because there would be a backlash from the fans. Gadsby has since said he should have listened to the majority view.

[vonwright]

23 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

No, Davies had demanded more money from the board in the promotion season to get us up. The board gave it to him but it was borrowed against the windfall from the PL; it was a gamble. Davies knew his budget going up and peed most of it away on Earnshaw and Claud Davis. After Wembley there was a majority of the board wanted to sack Davies because of his behaviour but Gadsby said no because there would be a backlash from the fans. Gadsby has since said he should have listened to the majority view.

We really didn't spend that much money getting up, compared to other teams who have been promoted before or since. And when we got up, we spend very little. I liked Gadsby but he was, at heart, a cautious businessman. Davies demanded money to get us promoted, the money was spent, we finished third, we got promoted. At that point we needed to gamble again: we didn't have the squad to have a chance of staying up. Gadsby either didn't want to do this, or couldn't. Again: fair enough, his choice, but it made relegation a near-certainty.

Gadsby was prepared to gamble on us getting promoted. But at that point he basically decided to cash in his chips. He wasn't prepared to gamble again on trying to stay in the Premier League. We had won the prize, and he was happy to cash out. He didn't have access to a lot of money. He wanted to sell up.

Personally I can understand why fans (and Davies) were disappointed by that. Did Davies handle it well? Clearly not. But the reason there would have been a 'fan backlash' is because a lot of fans would have agreed with him. 

Gadsby might have been right, he might have been wrong. The fact he now thinks he should have sacked Davies is neither here nor there.

None of this makes Billy Davies one of Derby's worst managers. He wasn't. 

Edited May 27, 2023 by vonwright

[Rammy03]

3 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

Felt Cocu was completely undermined by the bizarre arrival of Rooney, who he then had to play, so every game was effectively with 10 men. That's a pretty tough gig. It's impossible for the football not to have been dull with Rooney in the team, slowing everything down to walking pace. 

Before Rooney joined we were absolute s**** and only just outside the relegation zone. Our form improved massively from January onwards and we were on the cusp of the playoffs before lockdown

[Ram-Alf]

8 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Bloody hell Alf.

I grew up watching world class players like McFarland, Hector, Todd, Gemmill, George, etc and ended up with Billy Caskey and Vic Moreland. 

I think that was when many of us turned to football hooliganism as an escape.

Getting older in some ways fogs the memory uttox, I'll always remember Caskey and Moreland for when Liverpool beat us at home, Those 2 were shocking, Reading the link brought back the memory mode...wow, Then I read John Middleton our keeper who we took in exchange for Gemmill and gave them £25k...double bloody wow, Yep no doubt...Docherty was our worst manager by a country mile 👍

As for Hooliganism...well that's a different tale 😁

[Chopper]

Firstly, for context, my time as a supporter began with Cox, so with that in mind I know Tommy Doc is the worst, he destroyed a team I just didnt see it.

For me. Jewell. I get most of the money that was spent was spent by Davies, and like Natalie I'll come onto him in a moment. The football under Jewell was so atrocious we went a year without winning a match, we even had to pretend to score a goal just so us fans could have something to cheer about. I wont pretend to know where the money went or what was going on behind the scenes, but what I do know is that even relegated teams have some kind of dividend through parachute payments that gives them an advantage over Championship teams. We've all seen it enough times over the years, but what happened at Derby? We were hamstrung for years by getting promoted, how is that possible? Oh and was Liam Dickenson one of his?

Davies, I cant have him as one of the worst. Yes his demeanour was that of a wasp that has just been informed we've run out of salted caramel ice cream, yes as soon as we won promotion his focus was helping Ned Kelly with his gardening leave and not the team; but a team that had no right to be anywhere close, went up. Walking home in the rain after Southampton, the feeling as Jones' freekick went in against the Wendies, and that day at Wembley, all very special. He spent poorly, made the cardinal sin of destroying the team that got us promoted to try to keep us up, he still has a promotion on his record though.

I dont know if its other stuff, but Lampard keeps coming to mind. He took a team that finished 6th, added Mount, Tomori, Wilson and Ashley Cole and then led us to 6th, and I cant help but shake the feeling that a lot of the problems we have recently dealt with comes from there. But had too much fun that year to include him I guess.

Last one (thank goodness says the reader - you dont half go on) Pearson. Like a scaled down Doc, he took a team that was performing and rather than tweaking it, destroyed it. There was a fundamental issue with the team around resilience and February, there was also talk of characters in the dressing room; but he took 40 goals a season in Martin and Bryson (they were also so much more in how the team played) and loaned them to our rivals, what the actual? We never solved the Martin problem and that wasted some years of serious spending, which set the tone for where we are now.

[Ram-Alf]

10 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

By the time Davies manipulated his departure we were an irretrievable basket case. I watched every single minute of that season and it was pitiful from start to finish. We never had a hope from the start.

I think it was around early/late Oct when our lot who met in the Telegraph pub that we were going to lose every game and be relegated and we treated a draw as a victory...awful being an understatement.

I remember Mark Lawrenson commentating on us on Sky Sports...that Derby County were "useless" he was right, But telling the football world got him knocked off my Xmas card list  

[Ram-Alf]

10 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Davies wanted to sign players for our Prem squad that we wouldn't pay the price for and/or who didn't see the point in coming to play for us.

How much did Jewell squander?! Who did Jewell assemble?!

And what burk paid £3m for Claude Davis...the original 50p head, We heard he was a present from Gadsby 🙄