B4ev6is Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Well maybe he feels bad about maybe he thinks doing right thing about it all but we shall never know but if it helps lift these stupid ristionans on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram@Lincoln Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, B4ev6is said: Well maybe he feels bad about maybe he thinks doing right thing about it all but we shall never know but if it helps lift these stupid ristionans on us. Business is cut throat. He bought assets without the liabilities and paid what was due. People don't become very wealthy and successful in business by being the nice guy at every opportunity. You wouldn't pay Tesco more than the checkout total says for your weekly shop just because the electric bill is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Well I am just saying through but I think only way to convince the efl that we are staying our means maybe making a profit but he could use some of match day money to pay bits off. Like skills it could be coach company has been paid off so now agreed to bring it back and got money coming in now from housed built or building that companies use or like were warehouses were people can keep things there but bound to pay rent for it through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 6 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: Pretty sure there was agreed legislation that one EFL club was not allowed to take legal action against another outside their own arbitration. Effectively, they did then side with these other clubs. At any pint they could have threatened Boro and Wycombes membership like they did with us on a bi monthly basis . They could even have insisted that as part of any legislation Boro had to include Villa in any action. Gibson, schoolyard bully that is, would never have gone for this as they would have pushed it to court. They've set a precedent know and at some point their vindictiveness will take a huge bite from their arse. Should start with these additional covid losses. Would for example Stoke and Bristol City have the squads they currently have without rule change. If they don't get relegated, should be fun and games in the summer as those that do start ripping apart the legislation. We should ring Reading and join in. When Boro sued us there was no EFL rule against it. Even worse : Boro intervened in our proceedings with the EFL - causing us damaging delay. At that stage, we actually agreed with Boro that under the rules they had a right to take us to an EFL tribunal to claim we had broken the rules and caused them damage. Can’t understand why we did this. I can only imagine it was the only way we could get them out of our hair so that the EFl proceedings could move forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 2 hours ago, Jackal said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64510603 Howse told the club website that Johal's purchase had not "progressed as quickly as we all would have liked" but "exciting times are ahead both on and off the pitch" Where have we heard that before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Phoenix said: Howse told the club website that Johal's purchase had not "progressed as quickly as we all would have liked" but "exciting times are ahead both on and off the pitch" Where have we heard that before? Crewton, hintonsboots, LeedsCityRam and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hintonsboots Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 When his wife said “ You’ve got the Kirch “, can’t think of a more toe curling moment during the entire fiasco. Abu Derby, CBRammette, Rammy03 and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, hintonsboots said: When his wife said “ You’ve got the Kirch “, can’t think of a more toe curling moment during the entire fiasco. You've either forgotten about the Radio Derby presenter's song about him, or never saw it. Funnily enough it's 'not currently available' https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0bzxy3d Edited February 3, 2023 by Kokosnuss hintonsboots 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 25 minutes ago, hintonsboots said: When his wife said “ You’ve got the Kirch “, can’t think of a more toe curling moment during the entire fiasco. Like her, we were well and truly had by the Kirch. hintonsboots 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRammette Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Yes we were as fans and a club but one person and his ego put us in the position for them to be able to do so. He made it personal as thought he was bigger than the club and hence made it easy for them. Nothing will change what happened unless someone has the desire and funds for a long expensive court case dragging the club through the mud again from which only lawyers will be the winners Crewton, Dordogne-Ram and Kathcairns 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 14 hours ago, CBRammette said: Yes we were as fans and a club but one person and his ego put us in the position for them to be able to do so. He made it personal as thought he was bigger than the club and hence made it easy for them. Nothing will change what happened unless someone has the desire and funds for a long expensive court case dragging the club through the mud again from which only lawyers will be the winners Yes, and it goes all the way back to Mel's idea of a breakaway league after the EFL had made a right mess of the TV money negotiations. Also, and I have forgotten who it was, but one of our senior execs left the club in less than ideal circumstances, and went to work at the EFL, and staff at the EFL have spoken of there being an attitude of not liking Derby County. So something was bound to flow from all that, sooner or later, and that this attitude would colour their dealings with us - which it did. Dordogne-Ram and CBRammette 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hintonsboots Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Where EFL rules applied fully and transparently to DCFC and would any other EFL club have been treated the same ? It felt as a Derby fan that they were out to get us in that they wouldn’t accept the rulings of independent panels because they weren’t draconian enough. Allowing other clubs to get involved was unforgivable, but we did breach FFP rules which is the bottom line. This will happen to other clubs in the near future and the EFL have set a poor precedent. Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 7 minutes ago, hintonsboots said: Where EFL rules applied fully and transparently to DCFC and would any other EFL club have been treated the same ? It felt as a Derby fan that they were out to get us in that they wouldn’t accept the rulings of independent panels because they weren’t draconian enough. Allowing other clubs to get involved was unforgivable, but we did breach FFP rules which is the bottom line. This will happen to other clubs in the near future and the EFL have set a poor precedent. We breached FFP rules because the rules were retrospectively changed and we were penalised. Unfairly and inconsistently compared with others in the league. What we did clearly wasn’t in the spirit of FFP but the actions of about half the championship are not in the spirit of FFP. The Scarlet Pimpernel, hintonsboots, Betty Swollocks and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 On 02/02/2023 at 15:56, Curtains said: That is incomprehensible Curtains and RoyMac5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonwright Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I'm far from an expert but is it really fair to say 'the rules were retrospectively changed'? I thought it was more a case that a) we were the only club using our 'retained value' amortisation, and b) it had never been tested whether this fit the existing rules. I realise people use such accounting methods in other industries but wasn't the issue whether it was appropriate to do so in a footballing context? I also tend to think that even if the EFL was wrong on this point, we were still in terrible financial trouble. Their ruling certainly didn't help, but they were right that the method we used his huge losses that were _not_ going to be recouped in the way our accountancy method suggested. FlyBritishMidland and Rammy03 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Well they had years and years of accounts that were classed as being fine and all freaking sudden change there minds I wander why freaking gibson went crying to efl and not just that he could not stand derby having any kind of successful. hintonsboots 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadAmster Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 51 minutes ago, vonwright said: I'm far from an expert but is it really fair to say 'the rules were retrospectively changed'? I thought it was more a case that a) we were the only club using our 'retained value' amortisation, and b) it had never been tested whether this fit the existing rules. I realise people use such accounting methods in other industries but wasn't the issue whether it was appropriate to do so in a footballing context? I also tend to think that even if the EFL was wrong on this point, we were still in terrible financial trouble. Their ruling certainly didn't help, but they were right that the method we used his huge losses that were _not_ going to be recouped in the way our accountancy method suggested. The rules were retrospectively changed to include banning the depreciation method. A method MM told them we were ging to use back in 2015. Why did it take them 4 years to decide there was something "iffy" with the method? The 12 point administration penalty was, using hindsight, inevitable as the debt was unsustainable and MM couldn't/wouldn't continue to pay for the mess he'd made. IMO we got screwed over with the other 9 point FFP penalty. We had stayed, very narrowly, within FFP limits by the depreciation method and the sale of the ground. To me, an advocate of natural justice, the EFL should have recognised their culpability in accepting the method in 4 years' accounts before finally deciding they didn't like it. They used a blanket, cover any and all eventualities clause that gives them carte blanche to take action if they believe something, although not specifically banned, gives a club an unfair advantage. What I feel they should have done was to have told us we couldn't use it anymore and that, either from the 20/21 season or the 21/22 season. We would have been the first club to survive a 12 point deduction. The whole thing would have been sorted much earlier, we'd still be a Championship side and Gibson wouldn't have liked the outcome. A definite win=win situation ? Betty Swollocks and Indyram 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadAmster Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Didn't finish this sentence in my previous post so here it is in full... What I feel they should have done was to have told us we couldn't use it anymore and that, either from the 20/21 season or the 21/22 season we should have reverted to linear depreciation. That would have been fair under the circumstances. Steve How Hard?, hintonsboots, Indyram and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonwright Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 20 minutes ago, B4ev6is said: Well they had years and years of accounts that were classed as being fine and all freaking sudden change there minds I wander why freaking gibson went crying to efl and not just that he could not stand derby having any kind of successful. I take the point but it isn't like the EFL look at each club's accounts each year and stamp them with a big green tick. Clubs basically self-certify and the EFL only investigates where it thinks there is a problem. Completely agree that they should have raised and settled the question of our accounting method much earlier, though. I wonder if they just didn't understand what we were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonwright Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 6 minutes ago, MadAmster said: To me, an advocate of natural justice, the EFL should have recognised their culpability in accepting the method in 4 years' accounts before finally deciding they didn't like it. ? Yeah this is a strong point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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