Is "woke" confusing kids

[Crewton]

19 hours ago, Crewton said:

I believe it is due to close in the Spring but is being replaced by two new NHS run centres, one in London and one in the North-West. I think the Keira Bell court case was the catalyst for a major review of its activities in recent years, which led to the decision to close it down.

"Time To Think" by Hannah Barnes, has just been published. It's an apparently extensively researched account of the Tavistock Clinic "scandal" that may be of interest to anyone wanting to learn more about the whole affair. 

[TimRam]

On 13/02/2023 at 11:57, sage said:

Do you think the books in Waterstones in your childhood were the same as your fathers childhood?

Yes. I used to read some of his.

[Comrade 86]

Honestly couldn't make this s*** up. SMDH

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-64638653

[sage]

1 hour ago, TimRam said:

Yes. I used to read some of his.

That's a contradictory statement 

Virtually every book I read as a child wasn't written when my parents were young. I was a Roald Dahl addict. 

[Archied]

Seen a few interviews now with doctor Debbie Haytor ( trans woman ) ,what a fantastic and balanced view on the issues of transgender 

[cstand]

[ariotofmyown]

21 minutes ago, cstand said:

Don't feel too bad for the parents. The schools can explain all that as parents are notoriously sh ite at that stuff anyway.

[Mucker1884]

11 hours ago, cstand said:

And of course, we now have wasps and hornets to consider too.

They weren't even a thing, back in my day! ?

[Stive Pesley]

It's a funny meme but holds a lot of truth in that it starts with the admission that this is only a problem for the parents

The kids are like, bee, wasp, stinger, ex-bees yeah yeah I get it. Just leave the insects alone. They are happy, I'm happy. It's not a big deal

 

 

[Comrade 86]

34 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

It's a funny meme but holds a lot of truth in that it starts with the admission that this is only a problem for the parents

The kids are like, bee, wasp, stinger, ex-bees yeah yeah I get it. Just leave the insects alone. They are happy, I'm happy. It's not a big deal

Yep, agreed. This is what our kids are growing up with and when I hear them talk, it's not an issue for them at all.

Let's have it right, nobody is born bigoted. Social media, teachers and all the other highlighted 'pressure groups' do have responsibilities and all play a part, that's undeniable, but our children are primarily conditioned by their homelives, certainly up to and even beyond their early teenage years. This might be an uncomfortable truth for some, but it's a truth all the same. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

On 14/02/2023 at 16:50, sage said:

That's a contradictory statement 

Virtually every book I read as a child wasn't written when my parents were young. I was a Roald Dahl addict. 

Might want to hang on to those originals now they're being rewritten by Puffin and some 'sensitivity readers' I've never heard off.  

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/feb/18/roald-dahl-books-rewritten-to-remove-language-deemed-offensive

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Might want to hang on to those originals now they're being rewritten by Puffin and some 'sensitivity readers' I've never heard off.  

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/feb/18/roald-dahl-books-rewritten-to-remove-language-deemed-offensive

We really are in the book burning age 

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

We really are in the book burning age 

Come on though - no one has forced them to do this. The Dahl estate and the publishers have done it to try and make the books more inclusive to new generations because they know that if they leave them as they are they will quickly become forgotten and regarded as "from a different age". I'm kind of curious as to why people think it's a bad thing to remove the harmful stereotypes from beloved old books, unless those are the bits that you like!? 

There is a long history of old books being edited to keep up with the times. If you're getting upset about this then you're also advocating that by the same principle, this  should have been kept as it was

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_Then_There_Were_None

 

[Crewton]

27 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Come on though - no one has forced them to do this. The Dahl estate and the publishers have done it to try and make the books more inclusive to new generations because they know that if they leave them as they are they will quickly become forgotten and regarded as "from a different age". I'm kind of curious as to why people think it's a bad thing to remove the harmful stereotypes from beloved old books, unless those are the bits that you like!? 

There is a long history of old books being edited to keep up with the times. If you're getting upset about this then you're also advocating that by the same principle, this  should have been kept as it was

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_Then_There_Were_None

 

I think there's a bit of a difference between the example you've chosen and a process by which (as examples that I heard on the radio this morning on this subject) "fat" becomes "enormous" and a woman described as having a "horse-face" is now described as having a "face", unless you think that overweight people have historically suffered discrimination to the same degree as black people? 

I can understand it more for new works than I can for existing works. 

Mind you, Ernie Wise would be delighted to learn that his legs are now merely "lacking length, enormous, and hairy (or is that upsetting? IDK)" 

[Archied]

39 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Come on though - no one has forced them to do this. The Dahl estate and the publishers have done it to try and make the books more inclusive to new generations because they know that if they leave them as they are they will quickly become forgotten and regarded as "from a different age". I'm kind of curious as to why people think it's a bad thing to remove the harmful stereotypes from beloved old books, unless those are the bits that you like!? 

There is a long history of old books being edited to keep up with the times. If you're getting upset about this then you're also advocating that by the same principle, this  should have been kept as it was

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_Then_There_Were_None

 

Oh dear ,, I’m not even going there ,, welcome back

[RoyMac5]

53 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Come on though - no one has forced them to do this. The Dahl estate and the publishers have done it to try and make the books more inclusive to new generations because they know that if they leave them as they are they will quickly become forgotten and regarded as "from a different age". I'm kind of curious as to why people think it's a bad thing to remove the harmful stereotypes from beloved old books, unless those are the bits that you like!? 

There is a long history of old books being edited to keep up with the times. If you're getting upset about this then you're also advocating that by the same principle, this  should have been kept as it was

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_Then_There_Were_None

 

Heinous writing that would have warped children's minds forever.

"In previous editions of James and the Giant Peach, the Centipede sings: “Aunt Sponge was terrifically fat / And tremendously flabby at that,” and, “Aunt Spiker was thin as a wire / And dry as a bone, only drier.”

Both verses have been removed, and in their place are the rhymes: “Aunt Sponge was a nasty old brute / And deserved to be squashed by the fruit,” and, “Aunt Spiker was much of the same / And deserves half of the blame.”

[BondJovi]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Heinous writing that would have warped children's minds forever.

"In previous editions of James and the Giant Peach, the Centipede sings: “Aunt Sponge was terrifically fat / And tremendously flabby at that,” and, “Aunt Spiker was thin as a wire / And dry as a bone, only drier.”

Both verses have been removed, and in their place are the rhymes: “Aunt Sponge was a nasty old brute / And deserved to be squashed by the fruit,” and, “Aunt Spiker was much of the same / And deserves half of the blame.”

How long until enormous becomes deemed offensive? Unless we decide we scrap adjectives for people. 

As someone rather gangly,  I don't like being referred to as thin! Thin as a wire is too much.

Why not just leave these as they are, encourage some actual parenting and use the books as a discussion point if you feel it needs it.

[Stive Pesley]

Thing with Roald Dahl is that he was a self-confessed anti-semite, and a tremendous racist according to those who knew him . There are elements of these prejudices in his books.

The Royal Mint rejected the idea of a commemorative coin for this very reason

After he died - his estate issued a public apology for his views. This is just more damage limitation decision-making by his estate to preserve sales for future generations. 

So yeah be mad with his estate for wanting to sell books, but in no way shape or form is this "cancel culture"

 

 

[Crewton]

8 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Thing with Roald Dahl is that he was a self-confessed anti-semite, and a tremendous racist according to those who knew him . There are elements of these prejudices in his books.

The Royal Mint rejected the idea of a commemorative coin for this very reason

After he died - his estate issued a public apology for his views. This is just more damage limitation decision-making by his estate to preserve sales for future generations. 

So yeah be mad with his estate for wanting to sell books, but in no way shape or form is this "cancel culture"

 

 

The company that control the publication rights to Dahl's books is now owned by Netflix, not the Dahl Estate. They want to make a new series of films based on his works. They're behind the re-editing of the books by sensitivity consultants, I imagine because they don't want SM activists to campaign against the films. 

Salman Rushdie was stabbed and badly wounded a few months ago by someone who hadn't read a single word he'd ever written, but was told by someone else that he'd once written something blasphemous and should be killed. Some writers have had their careers and means of earning a living removed by similar sentiments. We have to think very carefully about whether it's desirable to have such unappointed morality police deciding what should or should not be acceptable. 

[Anon]

In what way is calling a fat character "fat" either anti-semitic or tremendously racist? These are the examples we're discussing here, not racism. Can you provide any examples of these prejudices in his books? I'm not saying they aren't there, but it's a long time since I read Dahl.

Also, altering an author's work or removing it from circulation entirely is cancel culture. You seem to enjoy flipping between denying it happens at all and saying it does, but it's a good thing. It can't be both.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Anon