Is "woke" confusing kids

[Archied]

24 minutes ago, SSD said:

This has commerical business stench all over it. If the general public were so bothered about the "outdated" language being used, don't buy the books and then it will simply go out of print and make no money. You have a choice, you don't have to allow your children to read his works. There's 1000s of other children's books in a saturated market.

Netflix bought the rights for a tidy sum of money a couple of years ago, they're due to release a number of his novels as films. I wonder whether they've had some influence along with the publisher ?? changing the wording from fat to enormous.... really? Is that going to make a huge different to someone who's struggle with a mental health disorder? As someone who's battle with mental health in the past, I'd rather people be honest with me than try and dodge the issue. 

His stories have always been a great bridge for kids who want something more mature but also entertaining. There's far worse material out there which adults allow there kids to play, read or watch. 

Tell you what , if there were two people in front of me and one called me fat , the other called me enormous ,I know which one I’m giving a clip first ,, clue , it’s not the one calling me fat ,,, that’s how silly this stuff is , are we not to use words descriptive of people unless they are perfect specimen s ?

Edited February 20, 2023 by Archied

[Stive Pesley]

2 minutes ago, Archied said:

they are changing stuff to preempt complaints/outrage

Not really - people have been voicing opinions about Dahl's books having some questionably dated content for years now. But no one has ever tried to force publishers to change it. 

Realistically they are only making the decision to change it to appeal to a wider audience/make more $$ and to gain publicity. Which has worked it seems

 

[Crewton]

26 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Objection

The Witches is well-known for being full of anti-semitic tropes. 

 

As you were

Oh, I've read all of the theories about that. With Dahl's acknowledged antisemitism, it's not hard to see how people have made that connection. It sounded like 'shoehorning' to me, but I accept that there's a big question-mark over it without there being any explicit antisemitism in the work.

[Leeds Ram]

21 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Come on though - no one has forced them to do this. The Dahl estate and the publishers have done it to try and make the books more inclusive to new generations because they know that if they leave them as they are they will quickly become forgotten and regarded as "from a different age". I'm kind of curious as to why people think it's a bad thing to remove the harmful stereotypes from beloved old books, unless those are the bits that you like!? 

There is a long history of old books being edited to keep up with the times. If you're getting upset about this then you're also advocating that by the same principle, this  should have been kept as it was

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_Then_There_Were_None

 

I don't know enough about this specific example, but changing works of fiction from their cultural context without the consent of the author is a bad idea. The whole point of art, including literature, is that it exists in its own space and time, representing not just current issues but longer-standing questions. You start messing around with the characters and language, then pretty soon you've basically changed the work itself, rendering it not something from the author but an odd bastardised version instead. As Roald Dahl isn't alive to edit his works, they should really be left untouched. This is not like Dickens, who softened the anti-semitic features of fagin up in later editions of Oliver Twist following an angry complaint by one reader. 

I see this kind of creep in political theory where some are wanting to edit out 'problematic' portions of texts. Of course, the people wanting to do this don't understand a) bad people can have good ideas and b) understanding why those portions exist is just as important as appreciating the good things from the work. Personally, I also don't buy the idea that suddenly writers like Roald Dahl will not be read unless they 'update' themselves. Literature classics remain in print and are read by people because of their timeless qualities that are generally immune to fashionable taste. 

[Crewton]

5 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

I don't know enough about this specific example, but changing works of fiction from their cultural context without the consent of the author is a bad idea. The whole point of art, including literature, is that it exists in its own space and time, representing not just current issues but longer-standing questions. You start messing around with the characters and language, then pretty soon you've basically changed the work itself, rendering it not something from the author but an odd bastardised version instead. As Roald Dahl isn't alive to edit his works, they should really be left untouched. This is not like Dickens, who softened the anti-semitic features of fagin up in later editions of Oliver Twist following an angry complaint by one reader. 

I see this kind of creep in political theory where some are wanting to edit out 'problematic' portions of texts. Of course, the people wanting to do this don't understand a) bad people can have good ideas and b) understanding why those portions exist is just as important as appreciating the good things from the work. Personally, I also don't buy the idea that suddenly writers like Roald Dahl will not be read unless they 'update' themselves. Literature classics remain in print and are read by people because of their timeless qualities that are generally immune to fashionable taste. 

Best post I've read on the subject ??

[uttoxram75]

Netflix are owned by the big institutional investors. They do not do anything that doesn't improve their profits so I guess they think there is money to be made out of it.

No such thing as bad publicity and all that.

[ariotofmyown]

5 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Netflix are owned by the big institutional investors. They do not do anything that doesn't improve their profits so I guess they think there is money to be made out of it.

No such thing as bad publicity and all that.

I wonder what the "comedians" who moan about cancel culture and how "you can't say anything these days" will think about this?

I'll have to watch their handsomely paid for specials on Netflix to find out. Their jokes about trans people are just irony btw.

[Comrade 86]

The Independent

Fox News host Harris Faulkner introduced a segment on Lego by announcing that “Lego is going woke.”

As evidence, Faulkner offered news that the Danish toy company is unveiling a range of new characters that include characters with anxiety, characters who are differently abled, and characters with Down Syndrome.

“These are really important issues,” Faulkner told Fox Radio host Jimmy Failla. “Do you want Lego in there?”

“Definitely not,” Failla said. “But what’s so fascinating about this story is the divide in the country. Republicans think it is insane that they are forcing identity politics into Legos. Democrats are upset they didn’t make a drag queen stripper.”

 

Yeah, of course they are love, absolutely seething!

Crying! ?

[Carl Sagan]

The Dahl thing is interesting. For me, books are magical objects that can transport a reader through space and time, and when they send you into the past, you should be shown it as it is, not have the past rewritten and sanitized by the presentists until they have to do it again in five year's time. A book is a time capsule. As well as entertainment, it's a learning experience to read something from another time.

Also, it's an art form that still belongs to the author, for good or ill. Making a film is such a collaborative exercise that it can never be the vision of a sole creator, but a book has the author's name on the cover and the title page for a reason. And their words should not be changed without an author's approval.

I work for a different part of the publishing house, but all of us have been receiving grief from friend's and family because of this. And some of our authors such as Salmon Rushdie have protested it. I'm surprised there hasn't been an internal statement. The CEO is on my floor so I shall collar him about it when I run into him. There's probably a long queue.

[Stive Pesley]

I think this guy pretty much nails it on the Dahl thing. Not much else to say

https://slate.com/culture/2023/02/roald-dahl-censorship-book-editing-controversy.html

[Crewton]

2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

I think this guy pretty much nails it on the Dahl thing. Not much else to say

https://slate.com/culture/2023/02/roald-dahl-censorship-book-editing-controversy.html

Some people have an issue with men referring to women as "guys", so you'd best watch that ?

Once you get past the irritating phrase "side hustle" (which I think sounds like some form of illegal activity) it is indeed a good article on the subject. 

[Carl Sagan]

We've come up with what seems a good solution to the Dahl controversy, given the circumstances and where we are now. I can't pre-empt it here as it "will be announced to the media later today", but I'm satisfied as a way out of the furore. 

[Crewton]

 

[Stive Pesley]

I mean if they really wanted to modernise Roald Dahl...

 

 

[i-Ram]

I didn’t know where to put this, and didn’t want to start a new thread, but is anyone following the Yorkshire CC case? Tim Bressnan appears to be being accused of making a racial slur towards young attractive Asian women. On the BBC website it doesn’t say however what the ‘slur’ is. Can anyone help? My wife is keen to know if I might be a racist too given my undeniable sexual interest in Isa Guha.

[AndyinLiverpool]

4 hours ago, i-Ram said:

I didn’t know where to put this, and didn’t want to start a new thread, but is anyone following the Yorkshire CC case? Tim Bressnan appears to be being accused of making a racial slur towards young attractive Asian women. On the BBC website it doesn’t say however what the ‘slur’ is. Can anyone help? My wife is keen to know if I might be a racist too given my undeniable sexual interest in Isa Guha.

It's easy enough for you to find out. But then  of course, that wasn't the point of your post.

[ariotofmyown]

5 hours ago, i-Ram said:

I didn’t know where to put this, and didn’t want to start a new thread, but is anyone following the Yorkshire CC case? Tim Bressnan appears to be being accused of making a racial slur towards young attractive Asian women. On the BBC website it doesn’t say however what the ‘slur’ is. Can anyone help? My wife is keen to know if I might be a racist too given my undeniable sexual interest in Isa Guha.

It's Bresnan. You are being racist to Yorkshire folk by deliberately mis-spelling his name.

It's possibly not the best story to be making jokes about though as many of the reported "bantz" seem pretty obviously wrong. 

[i-Ram]

4 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

It's easy enough for you to find out. But then  of course, that wasn't the point of your post.

What was the point of my post Andy? I am interested to know.

[i-Ram]

3 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

It's Bresnan. You are being racist to Yorkshire folk by deliberately mis-spelling his name.

It's possibly not the best story to be making jokes about though as many of the reported "bantz" seem pretty obviously wrong. 

Pretty obviously wrong bantz, but of a different time I guess. Back then there were even cricketers going on Twitter having a go at Jews. Yes Rafiq, I am looking at you. But that was back in the day. Fortunately we are now in an enlightened age where south stand and our away support find it highly amusing to sing about a black man’s wang.

[BaaLocks]

On 20/02/2023 at 17:03, Leeds Ram said:

changing works of fiction from their cultural context without the consent of the author is a bad idea.

Yup to that, especially people re-interpreting that 2,000 year old one. That never ends well.