Derby County v Exeter City Tuesday 25 October

[Blondest Goat]

Odura looked nowhere near ready and  both managers appear to have come to that conclusion.  The fact PW said we have no right backs at the club tells you what he thinks about it 

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, Blondest Goat said:

Odura looked nowhere near ready and  both managers appear to have come to that conclusion.  The fact PW said we have no right backs at the club tells you what he thinks about it 

I totally disagree with Warne on this .

Players performances get better when they play with better players .

 

[Blondest Goat]

Warne sees him in training every day.  You don't.

[Curtains]

Just now, Blondest Goat said:

Warne sees him in training every day.  You don't.

Good old Warne. 

[Anag Ram]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Bird's getting less and less of the ball. 54 touches in Warne's first game, then in the 40s for the next 2 games, and now into the 30s for the last 2. It's a worrying trend.

Well it would be if I saw him demanding the ball, not wandering around and playing unadventurous return passes at every opportunity.

He hides when he has the talent to direct proceedings.

He’s not alone. Hourihane does the same. Last night was fairly typical, and  only Smith and Sibley seemed to want the ball and took some ownership.

Sibley again performed poorly when he had it but at least he took a few risks.

We seem to have lost the confidence to play a first time pass. Every player, including the supposedly creative ones, goes through a slow process of bringing it under control, switching from foot to foot and playing it sideways.

We must be so easy to play against.

Also, watch the speed at which players run. Few sprint into space. That makes playing the progressive pass much trickier. The team needs to work much harder and players need to be available for wall passes which will defeat any defence at this level.

Instead, players see a wave of static teammates and decide on a safer backward pass - cue jeers from the crowd.

[Sparkle]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Bird's getting less and less of the ball. 54 touches in Warne's first game, then in the 40s for the next 2 games, and now into the 30s for the last 2. It's a worrying trend.

His passes don’t appear to go forwards which becomes a major problem and I do accept that our forwards are not looking or able to retain the ball 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Sparkle

[Sparkle]

1 hour ago, Ian Buxton's Bat said:

Tuned into radio Derby on the way home last night and you'd have thought we'd lost 5-0 to the Red Lion 2nd team.

It wasn't good but there was only one team trying to win it.

Some things are now obvious:

• The quality of this league is pretty poor
• In the circumstances LR assembled a decent squad and, overall, they are under-performing, irrespective of formations or managers
• The standard of officiating in mind-blowingly poor on basic decisions and is a factor - for example, last night each wrong throw-in or corner lost us possession and about a minute of playing time - so you need to score first and early.

I hope PW does well and I'm not going to join a pile-in on him at this early stage.

That said, his whole approach seems to be get forward quickly, get loads of crosses in the box and create loads of chances.........I have no problem with that.

Whether it's been 4 or 5 at the back, NML has delivered more crosses in and created more danger than any Derby winger in recent memory. 

However, on the other side, for a right footed winger, TB has done well with his left foot against weak sides but has dithered and gone to his right foot when under pressure.

Roberts did OK last night overall but he has a crossing phobia so is completely unsuited to LWB or attacking LB in a system that is based on getting crosses into the box.

The most prolific crosser in the squad is Fozzy - some are world class, some are rubbish but he's not scared of crossing and crossing quickly. Why not actually try putting a squarish peg in a squarish hole on Saturday and get crosses in from both sides? If he's knackered after 60 mins then take him off - you never know we may be winning, courtesy of one of his crosses.

I understand Roberts is actually a CB so why not let him play to his strengths?

 

Absolutely correct regarding Forsyth but we are now facing the reality that he is needed at centre half - I couldn’t understand what Roberts could do at left back that was better than Forsyth and that’s not having a go at Roberts and if we were signing him then fine but he isn’t our player long term. 

[Edtheram]

I like Warne. He comes across as a manger you would want to play for and he seems to understand players as people not just assets. He bought with him a great track record of getting us promoted and i can see why Clowes chose him, i have 2 points to get across though....

1. This is NOT a Paul Warne side. Before we slander him let's look at the players he is having to use. Defence, 2 ageing CBs and Stearman plus full backs who aren't natural wing backs. Midfield, Only Knight & Smith seem to be capable of playing for Warne. Bird, Hourihane and Thompson are all far too lightweight and don't have the energy to run for 95 mins. Attack, He has some weapons with Collins, NML, Barks, Dobbin & Osula but none are his signings. We need to see what happens in January and see if we can bring in 3/5 new faces who play Warnes way.

2. I didn't trust Rosenior towards the end but I knew how we would play week to week and would know how were going to attack teams, last night it was just confusing. I honestly think Rosenior would have been more successful and won away games if he didnt have Justin Walker and Bucko behind him, JW is an academy coach and Bucko failed at Burton. if he had a couple expericenced heads either side i think he would of smashed it.

[vonwright]

1 hour ago, Anag Ram said:

Also, watch the speed at which players run. Few sprint into space. That makes playing the progressive pass much trickier. The team needs to work much harder and players need to be available for wall passes which will defeat any defence at this level.

Instead, players see a wave of static teammates and decide on a safer backward pass - cue jeers from the crowd.

This is the bit I definitely agree with Warne on - ie that we need to be more energetic generally, both in terms of pressing and in terms of finding space when we have the ball. (And yes, then we need to do things quicker in terms of moving the ball.)

It was the reason our possession football was so boring and ponderous, and arguably the reason our best passers suddenly look less than brilliant - even the best passer needs something to hit.

Yes, all the best "passing" teams have players with very high technical skills. But they also work incredibly hard with and without the ball.  

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, Curtains said:

And so he should because he got it wrong .

 

And so he did.

[FKANorwichExile]

I get that Bird isn't playing on the front foot enough, but who has he got infront of him to pass to? Last night, Osula was marked by 3 Cb's, Sibs (first half) was dropping deeper but ended up stuck in the midfield bog, and the other 8 players were behind him. When we're at home and the opposition are just trying to stop us playing, where is the logic in such a defensive lineup?

[DavesaRam]

17 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

Are they booing the ref or the players? Or both?

It was the ref. Take it from me!

[Ram-Alf]

9 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

It was the ref. Take it from me!

Yep, Bloke on the bus left a couple of mins early and said he'd heard the booing, Told him it was aimed at the excuse in the middle ?

[Ghost of Clough]

19 minutes ago, Edtheram said:

I like Warne. He comes across as a manger you would want to play for and he seems to understand players as people not just assets. He bought with him a great track record of getting us promoted and i can see why Clowes chose him, i have 2 points to get across though....

1. This is NOT a Paul Warne side. Before we slander him let's look at the players he is having to use. Defence, 2 ageing CBs and Stearman plus full backs who aren't natural wing backs. Midfield, Only Knight & Smith seem to be capable of playing for Warne. Bird, Hourihane and Thompson are all far too lightweight and don't have the energy to run for 95 mins. Attack, He has some weapons with Collins, NML, Barks, Dobbin & Osula but none are his signings. We need to see what happens in January and see if we can bring in 3/5 new faces who play Warnes way.

And this is the main problem. We hired the wrong manager as this squad is not suited to Warne's system. We had it before when we went from McClaren's attacking football, to Clement's possession based system, to Pearson's 442, to Rowett's defensive style, to Lampard's attacking football.

Every manager needed an overhaul of the squad which cost us in several ways.

1. Poorer finishing position - with squads adapting to new teammates and new styles of play
2. An inflated wage bill - due to struggling to get rid of players not suited to the new style
3. Lack of development of academy graduates - due to bloated squads

Under Rosenior, we were outside of the playoffs on goal difference. It was clear we only needed 2 more players to make it work (RB and LW). Yet here we are, now probably 7 players shy of a squad Warne would like. Every week we're slowly drifting further away from the playoffs.

19 minutes ago, Edtheram said:

2. I didn't trust Rosenior towards the end but I knew how we would play week to week and would know how were going to attack teams, last night it was just confusing. I honestly think Rosenior would have been more successful and won away games if he didnt have Justin Walker and Bucko behind him, JW is an academy coach and Bucko failed at Burton. if he had a couple expericenced heads either side i think he would of smashed it.

Rosenior also has the 2nd best win record and highest equivalent points per game record in our club's history. Only Ted Magner having a better record (excluding caretakers for 2 games or less).

Harsh on Walker, who must be doing something right as Warne has kept him on in the first team staff. Why does being a former academy coach mean he can't be a good first team coach? Jody Morris had an identical role at Chelsea to Walker, but the consensus being he was a good assistant for us. Brendan Rogers was Chelsea reserves manager, yet has gone on to win promotion to the PL with Swansea, won numerous titles in Scotland and won two titles with Leicester. Kieran McKenna was an U18 coach and Spurs and Man Utd before becoming Ipswich manager. There are doubles other examples out there.

Buxton was a temporary assistant until a decision was made on who the permanent manager was. A more attack minded assistant was needed, much like McClaren needed Simpson to offer balance.

[Scott129]

One very worrying thing for me - and I can't say that I'd seen it before this season - was the number of our players who completely wussed out of challenges.

Smith, Bird, and Hourihane, in particular, bottled every 50/50 they could have gone for. I get that two of those have had spells out recently but that's unforgiveable.

[Srg]

3 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

IMO It's the style of play that's (mostly) causing all that other stuff though.  If you set the team up to just sling it forwards as much as possible, without any plan for what happens when it gets there, you get the situation we saw last night.  We're basically permanently in transition between attack and defence, because we never get set up, we just win it back, sling it forwards and lose it again.  The midfielders are torn between chasing the ball to win it back and funnelling back into position to set up to defend properly.  There's no structure to the team. One guy will go and press while the other guy has dropped back, so even if the first guy gets close to affect the play, a pass later he's completely out of the game because nobody else pressed at the same time, and now there's a big hole where the sole presser should have funnelled back to.

It's not players being lazy and weak, it's players not knowing what they are supposed to be doing.  You can't go and press if you don't know who to press, and you don't trust that the other guys on your team will go and press their men too.

Disagree. Saw too much of it under Rosenior. The lack of athleticism, intensity and aggression was an issue then and it still is. You could argue the system exacerbates that, but it’ll always be an issue with the squad we currently have. 

[DavesaRam]

10 hours ago, fred binneys head said:

If I can join in on the post match chat and give an away fan’s perspective…..

I enjoyed the game, but only in the way I enjoyed our 0-0 at Accrington earlier this season, I enjoyed watching two teams battle it out with loads of endeavour, even if there wasn’t much creativity on show. I enjoyed watching my beloved little old Exeter playing in a proper stadium against a proper club with proper fans. And I enjoyed singing my heart out for the lads until I now sound like Barry White.

As for the game, if I was a Derby fan I would be disappointed. You were the better side and the referee was poor for you, amazing for us. I didn’t think our keeper should have been sent off due to the ball going left and our covering defenders, but he certainly should have been booked and a free kick given. Amazing decision - as were lots of goal kicks / throw ins, especially the one in the last minute which was just in front of us. Hilarious.

I thought you looked a solid side, you just couldn’t create much in the last third, so although I thought you were the better side you didn’t really trouble our keeper, apart from the free kick which drew an excellent save from him. 

The reason we celebrated the final whistle so much was not only that we’d come to the home of a genuine footballing ‘big club’ and got a point, but we’ve had horrendous defensive injury problems in recent weeks, two of our players are staring down the barrel of a court appearance after their actions on Saturday night (I’m on their side by the way), we’ve had a new manager for 24 hours and we’ve got a team full of academy graduates. 

Finally (thanks for humouring me), what did you make of our support? I’m always interested in the other team’s view of us - did our numbers surprise you? Could you hear us? Can never tell with stadium acoustics. I thought your support was great considering how low you are in the football league compared to your history and also considering it wasn’t the most exciting game to watch.

Anyway, thanks for letting me join in. I might pop back when we play you at home next Spring. Good luck for the rest of the season. COYR (works for Reds and Rams).

You Exeter fans did a great job last night - very noisy, and kept going. Well done.

You have a tidy squad with a few very good players, and your team did a job, and stuck to their game plan. But that is as nice as I will be, because sadly your team were playing for time from the kick-off, quite blatantly, especially when they realised that the ref hadn't got the balls to do something about it. And when he did try to exert his authority, he made an absolute balls-up of it. Instead of booking the time-wasters, he wandered off and had words with presumably the team captain. And performing like he lives in Devon said that you could commit cynical, and at times nasty fouls would also get little discipline from the prat in orange. In addition, every time Derby were getting up a head of steam, down would go one of your players for treatment. And 4 minutes + 7 minutes time added on was a travesty - the trainers spent that much time on the pitch, which means he added nothing on for al; the substitutions, and definitely nothing on for the time wasting. 

Running the clock down, and "taking one for the team" type fouls are part of the game, sadly, but Exeter took it to extremes. You ar better than that. And the fans deserve better than that for the great support you give your team.

[Jimbo Ram]

2 hours ago, Edtheram said:

I like Warne. He comes across as a manger you would want to play for and he seems to understand players as people not just assets. He bought with him a great track record of getting us promoted and i can see why Clowes chose him, i have 2 points to get across though....

1. This is NOT a Paul Warne side. Before we slander him let's look at the players he is having to use. Defence, 2 ageing CBs and Stearman plus full backs who aren't natural wing backs. Midfield, Only Knight & Smith seem to be capable of playing for Warne. Bird, Hourihane and Thompson are all far too lightweight and don't have the energy to run for 95 mins. Attack, He has some weapons with Collins, NML, Barks, Dobbin & Osula but none are his signings. We need to see what happens in January and see if we can bring in 3/5 new faces who play Warnes way.

2. I didn't trust Rosenior towards the end but I knew how we would play week to week and would know how were going to attack teams, last night it was just confusing. I honestly think Rosenior would have been more successful and won away games if he didnt have Justin Walker and Bucko behind him, JW is an academy coach and Bucko failed at Burton. if he had a couple expericenced heads either side i think he would of smashed it.

But surely in the short-term he needs to adapt and make best use of the players available to him…

[duncanjwitham]

3 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

But surely in the short-term he needs to adapt and make best use of the players available to him…

If he’d come in, maybe simplified things a bit, got a bit more movement out of the forwards, got the midfielders taking a few more risks on the ball etc, we wouldn’t be in this mess. Those tweaks, which I suspect Rosenior was probably trying to make most of anyway, would have made a big difference, while moving us slightly towards his preferred style of football.  And then in January and next summer, he can think about changing the squad to suit his style a bit more.

by coming in and literally tearing everything up and starting again, when the squad really wasn’t in that bad a place at all, it’s entirely his fault if it all goes pear-shaped.

[Kathcairns]

18 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Cos the players we've got were basically a last minute mish mash shovelled through the door just to enable us to have a starting 11 this season. 

Which I totally understand given the predicament we were in. At least we've got a group of players which we can now develop and enhance exactly why Warne was brought in and presumably exactly why Rosenoir wasn't trusted to undertake this role. 

Can you honestly see that group of players devolping into the way paul warne wants us to play. The only way we will get a team to play to his style is getting  about 12 new players in, acompleteley new team in other words. Think the accademy will be a thing of the past.