Derby County v Exeter City Tuesday 25 October

[Curtains]

16 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

But he did accept some responsibility. What is your point?

Bring Odura on at RB and leave Smith in midfield. 
Look it’s all subjective but Warne has to adapt the system to the players not the players to the system.

Maybe in time he can do the latter. 

[Dcfcsr92]

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

It takes time if the system is not fitting the players .

4-4-2 or 4-3-3 should be used not this stupid 3-5-2

I totally agree we have to play to what suits our players, hopefully we will see and improvement once collins is back again

[Ghost of Clough]

11 minutes ago, Mr Tibbs said:

Agree with most of your post Angie but feel this is a becoming a bit of a myth. How many times does the ball have to go across the back 5 or 4 before Bird and Hourihane show for it? Before they show an ounce of interest and bravery to move the ball up the pitch. I'm not quite sure what PW is trying to do at times but I can't imagine he's told these pair to not show for the ball, not give a wing back an option on the inside, support the forward players when they win a knock down.... they were just invisible. There was no bypassing, if anything there wasn't enough hoofing. 

The only player I'd start to feel sorry for is Cashin, as he is left all the responsibility to get the ball moving forward. Bird and Hourihane have been putting in performances like this before Warne arrived, it's not something we didn't see under LR. Pretty sure there's a few old threads knocking about saying just as much.

We obviously want Max to do well and he'll get more leeway than others, being one of our own, but he's got to start bringing something to the table, consistently. 

 

Bird's getting less and less of the ball. 54 touches in Warne's first game, then in the 40s for the next 2 games, and now into the 30s for the last 2. It's a worrying trend.

[Curtains]

Just now, Dcfcsr92 said:

I totally agree we have to play to what suits our players, hopefully we will see and improvement once collins is back again

I’ve not lost faith in Warne by any means he’s still adapting himself to the job . Derby is a big club and a big job. 

[TomTom92]

3-5-2 does need binning off for now. 

For LWB we have: Forsyth (too slow), Roberts (Too defensive), Barkhuizen (Too attacking), Sibley (Too attacking)

For RWB we have: NML (Too attacking), Smith (could work), Knight (could work but he's one of our better central midfielders, Odurah (Too inexperienced).

As soon as we go to 4 at the back we have genuine leftback options and okyish rightback options. I like Warne and maybe he feels like his teams can't do what he wants with a back 4 but for the sake of between now and January I think he needs to adapt.  

 

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Bird's getting less and less of the ball. 54 touches in Warne's first game, then in the 40s for the next 2 games, and now into the 30s for the last 2. It's a worrying trend.

Bird seems out of sorts.  Maybe League 1 doesn’t suit him.  ie less time on the ball. 

[HorsforthRam]

I think Warne was forced into a back four rather than willingly changed tactics. Complete lack of pivot points in the 352 because no one from midfield is showing 

[Ian Buxton's Bat]

Tuned into radio Derby on the way home last night and you'd have thought we'd lost 5-0 to the Red Lion 2nd team.

It wasn't good but there was only one team trying to win it.

Some things are now obvious:

• The quality of this league is pretty poor
• In the circumstances LR assembled a decent squad and, overall, they are under-performing, irrespective of formations or managers
• The standard of officiating in mind-blowingly poor on basic decisions and is a factor - for example, last night each wrong throw-in or corner lost us possession and about a minute of playing time - so you need to score first and early.

I hope PW does well and I'm not going to join a pile-in on him at this early stage.

That said, his whole approach seems to be get forward quickly, get loads of crosses in the box and create loads of chances.........I have no problem with that.

Whether it's been 4 or 5 at the back, NML has delivered more crosses in and created more danger than any Derby winger in recent memory. 

However, on the other side, for a right footed winger, TB has done well with his left foot against weak sides but has dithered and gone to his right foot when under pressure.

Roberts did OK last night overall but he has a crossing phobia so is completely unsuited to LWB or attacking LB in a system that is based on getting crosses into the box.

The most prolific crosser in the squad is Fozzy - some are world class, some are rubbish but he's not scared of crossing and crossing quickly. Why not actually try putting a squarish peg in a squarish hole on Saturday and get crosses in from both sides? If he's knackered after 60 mins then take him off - you never know we may be winning, courtesy of one of his crosses.

I understand Roberts is actually a CB so why not let him play to his strengths?

 

[duncanjwitham]

2 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Bird seems out of sorts.  Maybe League 1 doesn’t suit him.  ie less time on the ball. 

The problem Bird was having under Rosenior was the lack of passing options in front of him.  Last season he had Ravel Morrison as a number 9 demanding the ball, Plange and Kazim dropping off the front showing for the ball, Knight drifting in from out wide, and even Lawrence showing for it at times. This season, Collins stands in the 6 yard box, Hourihane is too static and everyone else (NML, Dobbin, Osula, Bakhuizen etc) is wanting to make runs in behind.  McGoldrick is the only forward player we have that shows for the ball and wants it into feet, and he's been injured a lot.  So Bird picks up the ball and can either thread a perfect through ball for the likes of Dobbin, or safely play it sideways.  And that's just got even worse under Warne, because we spend half the time lumping it over Birds head as well.

For all the people that said Will Hughes never does anything, the team (certainly under Rosenior anyway) is what a team without someone like Will Hughes doing his stuff looks like.  The stuff Hughes did was busting a gut to get into space at all times, then just get it and move it on quickly (rinse and repeat).  We have no one doing that - Bird should be picking the ball up, playing a ball 5/10 yards forward to that guy, and then Bird can advance and get it back again, but he's now 20 yards further up the pitch and those through balls to Dobbin etc are suddenly a lot more playable.  

[angieram]

1 hour ago, Mr. P said:

Thought he did in a way.

 

I didn't hear that, just the RamsTV one. Fair dos.

[Curtains]

38 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

The problem Bird was having under Rosenior was the lack of passing options in front of him.  Last season he had Ravel Morrison as a number 9 demanding the ball, Plange and Kazim dropping off the front showing for the ball, Knight drifting in from out wide, and even Lawrence showing for it at times. This season, Collins stands in the 6 yard box, Hourihane is too static and everyone else (NML, Dobbin, Osula, Bakhuizen etc) is wanting to make runs in behind.  McGoldrick is the only forward player we have that shows for the ball and wants it into feet, and he's been injured a lot.  So Bird picks up the ball and can either thread a perfect through ball for the likes of Dobbin, or safely play it sideways.  And that's just got even worse under Warne, because we spend half the time lumping it over Birds head as well.

For all the people that said Will Hughes never does anything, the team (certainly under Rosenior anyway) is what a team without someone like Will Hughes doing his stuff looks like.  The stuff Hughes did was busting a gut to get into space at all times, then just get it and move it on quickly (rinse and repeat).  We have no one doing that - Bird should be picking the ball up, playing a ball 5/10 yards forward to that guy, and then Bird can advance and get it back again, but he's now 20 yards further up the pitch and those through balls to Dobbin etc are suddenly a lot more playable.  

I agree but to be honest to my surprise his first touch seems to have deserted him at the moment .

He is losing the ball far to often for my liking .

[Tamworthram]

55 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Bring Odura on at RB and leave Smith in midfield. 
Look it’s all subjective but Warne has to adapt the system to the players not the players to the system.

Maybe in time he can do the latter. 

But he still accepted some responsibility for the first half performance which is what we're talking about here.

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

But he still accepted some responsibility for the first half performance which is what we're talking about here.

And so he should because he got it wrong .

 

[Srg]

13 hours ago, Ramfan86 said:

Really poor officials once again!!

If all players had put as much effort in as Roberts (you could also argue NML at times), then we may have got somewhere tonight …

Too lightweight and not enough pace.

Basic Errors - with reference to when we were breaking down the right wing in second half and just dribbled the ball out of play!

On the plus side - we kept a clean sheet, didn’t concede a penalty and Colin’s is back Saturday!

 

 

Pretty much summed it up. 

Can argue about tactics and style of play all day, but the simple fact is for far too much of that match there was minimal pace, weak challenges and a general lack of effort. 

[Mr Tibbs]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Bird's getting less and less of the ball. 54 touches in Warne's first game, then in the 40s for the next 2 games, and now into the 30s for the last 2. It's a worrying trend.

There's not a lot of fresh games in the memory but having watched him at Ipswich and last night he's just as much to blame for that stat.

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, Mr Tibbs said:

 How many times does the ball have to go across the back 5 or 4 before Bird and Hourihane show for it? Before they show an ounce of interest and bravery to move the ball up the pitch. I'm not quite sure what PW is trying to do at times but I can't imagine he's told these pair to not show for the ball, not give a wing back an option on the inside, support the forward players when they win a knock down.... they were just invisible.  

 

BOOM!..Nailed it for me? 

?

Edited October 26, 2022 by Unlucky Alf

[duncanjwitham]

16 minutes ago, Srg said:

Can argue about tactics and style of play all day, but the simple fact is for far too much of that match there was minimal pace, weak challenges and a general lack of effort. 

IMO It's the style of play that's (mostly) causing all that other stuff though.  If you set the team up to just sling it forwards as much as possible, without any plan for what happens when it gets there, you get the situation we saw last night.  We're basically permanently in transition between attack and defence, because we never get set up, we just win it back, sling it forwards and lose it again.  The midfielders are torn between chasing the ball to win it back and funnelling back into position to set up to defend properly.  There's no structure to the team. One guy will go and press while the other guy has dropped back, so even if the first guy gets close to affect the play, a pass later he's completely out of the game because nobody else pressed at the same time, and now there's a big hole where the sole presser should have funnelled back to.

It's not players being lazy and weak, it's players not knowing what they are supposed to be doing.  You can't go and press if you don't know who to press, and you don't trust that the other guys on your team will go and press their men too.

[Blondest Goat]

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

Bring Odura on at RB and leave Smith in midfield. 
Look it’s all subjective but Warne has to adapt the system to the players not the players to the system.

Maybe in time he can do the latter. 

Did you see the City U21s game?  I can't see Rooney or Odura featuring in the first team unless we have an absolute injury crisis.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

Did you see the City U21s game?  I can't see Rooney or Odura featuring in the first team unless we have an absolute injury crisis.

Yes I did. Odoruh got played as a wing back, not a fullback. When they switched he looked okay.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, Blondest Goat said:

Did you see the City U21s game?  I can't see Rooney or Odura featuring in the first team unless we have an absolute injury crisis.

Yes I went .

City were class on the ball and the guy who scored a hat trick was lightning fast .

Could you image Chester keeping up with him or Smith for that matter 
  
Odura will be very good as will Rooney .

You have to give players a chance .