Derby County v Exeter City Tuesday 25 October

[Leeds Ram]

Just now, Andicis said:

Because it's been posted time and time again the reason why. He never had the squad or the budget, and did a great job in a league where Rotherham (who were never at the top even in league one) for budgets could compete. It shouldn't need repeating over and over every time we drop points. 

 

Personally I don't buy that excuse in relation to budgets so much especially for his 23 point season. I didn't see other people post this but I've not been on here as much recently due to being a bit busy atm. 

[Steve Buckley’s Dog]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

It certainly isn’t beautiful; my eyes hurt. 

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, Leeds Ram said:

You're not wrong about Hourihane but I don't want us to be turned into Rotherham mark 2 either which is where I can see we're heading.  I was never a fan of Warne's appointment and believed it was a monumental error and I still think that tbh. I hope I'm wrong but the style of play is pretty much non-existent and we're not taking advantage of our players best qualities atm. 

I think the issue that a lot of folks are overlooking is that this group of players ain't nearly as good as they think they are. 

Wildsmith and Cashin have done well, Collins has done ok when he remembers he's playing football not WWE, Bird and Sibley continue to flatter to deceive and so on.

Our central midfield is utter gash no matter what way you cut it but that's the way things have landed for Warne. 

We don't have proper full backs after the 2 snakes left so again Warne has to deal with that, paying Barkhuizen and NML at wingback is out of necessity cos we don't have decent fullbacks and so on. Our squad is poo. Not Warnes fault. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not sure why it would be too big a game? Either you're capable of refereeing a match or you're not.

You’re right (he wasn’t!)

[Andicis]

Just now, Leeds Ram said:

Personally I don't buy that excuse in relation to budgets so much especially for his 23 point season. I didn't see other people post this but I've not been on here as much recently due to being a bit busy atm. 

Well that's up to you, but I'd love to hear your justification as to why he should have stayed up with by far the lowest budget and the worst squad? Rotherham also got very unlucky to go down the year we stayed up on the final day. 

[Jourdan]

Regretting the change? Diabolical? Pathetic? Rubbish? Going backwards? Attendances down to 12,000?

The arbiters of style strike again! It really is so dramatic!

Two wins, a draw and two defeats is really not the disaster people suggest it is. It really isn’t given injuries and suspensions are starting to bite. Don’t forget how small the squad is that we have.

It is a case of teething problems under a new manager, not a genuine crisis as many would have you believe.

The way some are carrying on you would think we had lost 5 league games in a row.

Our home form hasn’t been dominant all season. We’ve had good spells but the games have been fairly even, open and teams have been able to frustrate us for large spells.

We needed late goals v Oxford, Peterborough and Wycombe and held off a Barnsley comeback. That earned us 9 extra points over four games where we might have had to settle for 3-4 points otherwise.

Our away form has been poor in terms of results and taking advantage of our better spells. With Warne, there has been some correction there with two wins from three.

No-one is happy to drop 5 points from two winnable home games. No-one is happy to watch a poor standard of football.

But maybe calm is needed? It seems to me results, luck and so on, they are simply levelling out as things do.

Improvement is needed, of course. We can do better. Warne will again learn a lot from tonight. Perhaps we can forgive five games of fact finding if things soon come together?

But the idea that we would have won 4 from 5 under Rosenior and things would have been so much better seems misguided and something I just can’t buy.

[RoyMac5]

23 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

And you were so happy with it on Friday night.

We competed - with different players - on Friday night. Warne seems unable or unwilling to adapt to the players he has, rather than the sytsem he prefers to play!

[Mick Brolly]

25 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

The players are good enough to be doing better - that is down to the manager.

The players as you say are definitely good enough to be doing better but some of them need to have a good look in the mirror never have I seen so many half hearted attempts to win the ball not everything is down to the manager.

[Justa]

Just got home - so many things wrong with that performance it’s difficult to know where to start.

I said after 15 mins there was no spark, no press, no bite, no tackles, no obvious idea what we wanted to do.

Second half was better and the ref bottled the decision with the goalkeeper but I don’t really feel too aggrieved as we didn’t deserve more than a point.

We need to stick with Warne but as yet I’m not sure whether we have the players to play his way or whether he isn’t making the most of what we have.

Definitely recalibrated my expectations for this season - mid table at best and let’s hope we don’t lose more to injuries and can recruit in January.

I have a feeling that the team that starts next season will be very different.

 

 

[Leeds Ram]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

I think the issue that a lot of folks are overlooking is that this group of players ain't nearly as good as they think they are. 

Wildsmith and Cashin have done well, Collins has done ok when he remembers he's playing football not WWE, Bird and Sibley continue to flatter to deceive and so on.

Our central midfield is utter gash no matter what way you cut it but that's the way things have landed for Warne. 

We don't have proper full backs after the 2 snakes left so again Warne has to deal with that, paying Barkhuizen and NML at wingback is out of necessity cos we don't have decent fullbacks and so on. Our squad is poo. Not Warnes fault. 

Bird and Hourihane together is a busted flush. Not enough mobility, not enough strength and they want to do the same thing. I agree with you there. The answer to our lack of wing-backs is not to play a system that needs them..... the fact this is his 3rd home game and he's only just working this out is a tad concerning. You could see against Port Vale that it left us defensively vulnerable in the air, on the flanks and on set pieces. It was a shambles and I could see we were going to lose that game even when we scored in the first minute. 

I'd honestly be tempted to shift Knight to right back, and have a midfield 3 or 2 of Rooney, Bird and Sibley or use roberts as an inverted full back and slot forsyth in on the left with knight in the middle accompany bird and sibley. That might provide sufficient cover until January and we can look for a loan or 3 to give us additional cover. Warne atm is making a meal of this so far. Maybe the club is too big for him and he's got Eddie Howe syndrome or something but no-one can convince me after that performance that this is working.

 

[plymouthram]

34 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Not sure when the mardarses on here are going to wake up and smell the coffee that Warne was given a 4 year contract so he ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

So bellyaching about getting Rosenoir back or why we brought him in when the players at the club don't fit into his footballing ethos might be helpful for your personal therapies but it isn't going to alter things one iota.

So get used to it and try and start supporting the guy as he's here for the long haul like it or lump it I'm afraid to tell you. 

Fans want to see good football, they want to see goals, they want to see wins, they want to see their team climb the table. If any of that ain't happening, they will moan, get disinetrested, stop going to games, not renew their season ticket and then the CEO, owner David Clowes and directors will smell the coffee and sack the bloke regardless of his 4 year contract. You heard it here first, this Hoofball football Warne will not complete 4 years with the club.

[Leeds Ram]

7 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Well that's up to you, but I'd love to hear your justification as to why he should have stayed up with by far the lowest budget and the worst squad? Rotherham also got very unlucky to go down the year we stayed up on the final day. 

Budgets don't determine league tables. A manager's job is to outperform the budget they have been given. I wouldn't blame Warne for not getting promoted to the Prem but at championship level it's less of an excuse in the lower reaches of that division. I can't see there being a giant budget gap between luton and rotherham for instance.

[Andicis]

Just now, Leeds Ram said:

Budgets don't determine league tables. A manager's job is to outperform the budget they have been given. I wouldn't blame Warne for not getting promoted to the Prem but at championship level it's less of an excuse in the lower reaches of that division. I can't see there being a giant budget gap between luton and rotherham for instance.

Budgets do determine league tables. There is a direct correlation. There are always outliers, but that statement is generally pretty false. 

Luton almost went down, got a bit of luck and then could build on their squad with more money. Rotherham didn't get that luck. 

Away from this tangent, maybe you should give the new manager a chance? 

[duncanjwitham]

3 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

The answer to our lack of wing-backs is not to play a system that needs them..... the fact this is his 3rd home game and he's only just working this out is a tad concerning

I’m still not convinced he’s worked it out. I think he was forced into it because we ran out of centre halves to play.  He even moved Sibley to wingback just to try and keep playing a back 3, before realising what a catastrophically stupid decision that was.

[RadioactiveWaste]

It's pretty clear the mentality in the squad has got to change far more than who is doing what job in the team, at least until january.

 

[Tyler Durden]

7 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Bird and Hourihane together is a busted flush. Not enough mobility, not enough strength and they want to do the same thing. I agree with you there. The answer to our lack of wing-backs is not to play a system that needs them..... the fact this is his 3rd home game and he's only just working this out is a tad concerning. You could see against Port Vale that it left us defensively vulnerable in the air, on the flanks and on set pieces. It was a shambles and I could see we were going to lose that game even when we scored in the first minute. 

I'd honestly be tempted to shift Knight to right back, and have a midfield 3 or 2 of Rooney, Bird and Sibley or use roberts as an inverted full back and slot forsyth in on the left with knight in the middle accompany bird and sibley. That might provide sufficient cover until January and we can look for a loan or 3 to give us additional cover. Warne atm is making a meal of this so far. Maybe the club is too big for him and he's got Eddie Howe syndrome or something but no-one can convince me after that performance that this is working.

 

Just out of interest whom are our full backs do we actually have any?

As Knight isn't really a fullback, Forsyth is really knocking on now, who else have we got?

We had to rush numbers in the door in the summer just to get a starting 11 together and now people with short memories are saying we should be getting promotion straight away it's ridiculous. 

And Warne has inherited all of this unless he was sending subliminal messages to Rosenoir in the summer ordering him to sign all of the players he now has. 

Then I read on another thread that this is the worst football managerial appointment ever and he needs to go, it makes you want to vomit really. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Tyler Durden

[Chellaston Ram]

I’m really not enjoying this league any longer, the refereeing and blatant time wasting is awful 

[May Contain Nuts]

16 minutes ago, jameso said:

Think of it more as: coming in with a suitably acceptable brand of football and points tally after 4 league games such that a subsequent draw at home to Exeter would be deemed tolerable by the majority of fans… would count as a miracle

OK?

We've clearly got off on the wrong foot.

You misunderstood my response to plymouth ram's response to an early post of mine that he himself misundestood! A comedy of error and misreading.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

 

I'd honestly be tempted to shift Knight to right back, and have a midfield 3 or 2 of Rooney, Bird and Sibley or use roberts as an inverted full back and slot forsyth in on the left with knight in the middle accompany bird and sibley. That might provide sufficient cover until January and we can look for a loan or 3 to give us additional cover. Warne atm is making a meal of this so far. Maybe the club is too big for him and he's got Eddie Howe syndrome or something but no-one can convince me after that performance that this is working.

 

So… you’re saying he could get us to 4th in the Premier League?

There were plenty willing to persevere with Knight at RB because we had no one better, but even Rosenior shifted him to midfield for his final match in charge; I think the more pertinent issue though is that he’s rumoured to be out for a month, along with the others on the growing injury list!

[Leeds Ram]

15 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Budgets do determine league tables. There is a direct correlation. There are always outliers, but that statement is generally pretty false. 

Luton almost went down, got a bit of luck and then could build on their squad with more money. Rotherham didn't get that luck. 

Away from this tangent, maybe you should give the new manager a chance? 

Your first two sentences are logically incoherent. Either they do or they don't, they can't 'sometimes' match up and still be determined by one another. One of a manager's biggest tasks is to over-perform in relation to current budget and stature of the club they are at. Warne didn't historically over-perform where Rotherham have often been (a struggling second and third tier side). Warne had a worse win rate than Steve Evans, Ronnie Moore and Mark Robins when they were there, i.e., Warne is the 4th most succesful rotherham manager out of the last 8,  so let's not pretend he did some insanely brilliant job up there. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Leeds Ram