Tyler Durden Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, DJAY said: I'm not a Mel apologist by any means, but I keep reading 'Mel conned us' as a regular comment in this thread. How did Mel con us? From my understanding he didn't con us as he thought the amortisation policy had been confirmed by EFL as acceptable. If the amortisation policy hadn't been accepted initially by the EFL, would Mel have carried on using it? - No I don't think so, we would have used the straight line policy as per EFL suggestions. BUT, there was no recommendation to use only a straight line amortisation policy. If the amortisation policy hadn't been accepted initially by the EFL, would there have been proceedings hindering any takeover process - possibly but that would have been down to the arbitration process related to the stadium valuation (which we were found not guilty of). If the amortisation policy hadn't been retro-actively deemed by the EFL to be unacceptable, would we have failed FFP in the years we did? - I doubt it, once we knew we were only to use the straight line policy we would have cut cloth accordingly. The only thing we were found guilty of in the arbitration process was not making the footnote describing the amortisation policy clearer. But the arbitration process did conclude that this wasn't done in order to mislead. I agree that Mel putting us into administration doesn't put him in the best of lights, and he didn't make the stadium sale public knowledge until after the fact, but to say he conned us is a bit over the top in my eyes. Well he fundamentally conned all of us as we all presumed that he was paying HMRC tax that they were owed. Silly us. StaffsRam, atherstoneram and CBRammette 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 @David’s made his annual trip to PP this evening, if you see him, twist his nipple for me. Steve How Hard? and ThePrisoner 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 hour ago, BoroWill said: Gibson's claim began long before your administration and could have been sorted before it. Mel Morris delayed this and the cynical side of me says he put you into administration to get away from both the HMRC debt and our claim. What you may find is Morris stopped funding us around May 2019 after we lost the playoff final. so my guess is he didnt have a spare £45 million then. and then Covid happened which knocked a further £30m to £40m hole in our finances. so if Gibson was hoping for a big pay cheque I’m afraid he got his timing wrong. and most of the delays were of Gibson’s making.. trying to sue the Efl , then to muscle in on their action and all that .he’s just too litigious and vexatious for words.. Indyram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Boycie said: @David’s made his annual trip to PP this evening, if you see him, twist his nipple for me. Which one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamUltraRam Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 hour ago, BoroWill said: We don't know the details because it is confidential. Agreed, but I wonder why Gibson has circulated open letters wanting to know details of things like any administration deal with the HMRC when it is none of his business - & it most certainly is confidential Kathcairns, Maxwell Baxter and Indyram 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 hour ago, BoroWill said: It's felt like that at times! I really do appreciate those of you who have chosen to engage with me rather than just hurl abuse. Personal abuse towards you has been removed as quickly as its been posted. Steve Gibson is our enemy. He is trying to kill our football club. Middlesbrough and Derby have more in common than most. Industrial working class towns with football clubs loved by the locals. From Steve Bloomer to Brian Clough we have a long football history. If you cant see why we are so livid with Gibson for wanting to kill us then I would question whether you really are a die hard football fan. As others have said, if it was Morris trying to liquidate your club I believe many of us would be up in arms about it. Perhaps we are made of stronger stuff in Derbyshire, we'd do whats raite not just what a vindictive little multi millionaire wants to do because of a personal vendetta. Sufferingfool, Zag zig, LeedsCityRam and 14 others 7 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Raite, off to the pub. Come on you great big beautiful Rams. strawhillram, Animal is a Ram, Steve How Hard? and 3 others 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamUltraRam Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 2 hours ago, BoroWill said: It is nobody but Morris' fault that you are in administration. Entering administration was a voluntary action taken by him. This is true. I will never forgive Mel Morris for playing Russian Roulette with my club. The barrel has spun and the bullet is lined up at our head - but it's Gibson holding the gun Indyram, Kathcairns and Jimbo Ram 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 12 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: I posted it on here a couple of days ago and the mods quickly deleted it Ah, so he’s been in touch to ask for his anonymity back and is back lurking. I think I’ve found the thread David originally shared it in, and it’s been removed from there as well. Tyler Durden 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 Just now, uttoxram75 said: Raite, off to the pub. Come on you great big beautiful Rams. Look out for the boss, he’s in the south stand with his home help. uttoxram75 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: Personal abuse towards you has been removed as quickly as its been posted. Steve Gibson is our enemy. He is trying to kill our football club. ... You've done a fine job then, I've not read any of it...and I'd have liked too. ? #COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 minute ago, cosmic said: Ah, so he’s been in touch to ask for his anonymity back and is back lurking. I think I’ve found the thread David originally shared it in, and it’s been removed from there as well. You don’t have to log on to view this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 7 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: Which one? Not the one on his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, cosmic said: Ah, so he’s been in touch to ask for his anonymity back and is back lurking. I think I’ve found the thread David originally shared it in, and it’s been removed from there as well. I was surprised it stayed up so long, tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawhillram Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 11 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: Which one? He has 3 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 7 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Well he fundamentally conned all of us as we all presumed that he was paying HMRC tax that they were owed. Silly us. Because every other club was paying Hmrc even though they had agreed to defer the payments due to Covid ? And every other club was unable to get a loan via the Efl deal to cover the hmrc payments when they did claim them? No excuses for Morris leaving us in the poo. But you don’t need to like it on so thick. Hmrc May get nothing the way Gibson is carrying on. Indy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alty_Ram Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 48 minutes ago, BoroWill said: It's felt like that at times! I really do appreciate those of you who have chosen to engage with me rather than just hurl abuse. ... and it may not seem like it but I also think it is useful to have a sensible if slightly tetchy discussion about this. An issue discussed in the closed confines of a partisan message board (yours and ours) will always have a huge element of bias so I am genuinely interested in your take on things even if I don't agree with a lot of what you say. It was always unlikely that folk would roll out the welcome mat but you've popped on here and made your case regardless so fair play for that at least. The why's and wherefores of the key issues that we are facing have already been covered by others over the last several pages so I won't go over old ground but if you take anything away from here then understand a few key things. I can't speak for everyone but hopefully this will give you a flavour of some. 1) We understand completely who put us in administration. There seems to be a misconception amongst Boro fans that Derby fans are somehow living in denial over this. That is simply not the case, we feel badly let down and abandoned to our fate. 2) Derby fans feel very strongly that the club has accepted its punishment handed out by the relevant authority but that this was incredibly badly and inconsistently handled by the EFL who just seemed to be making it up as they went along and appealing their own panels decisions and that separate legal actions from other clubs just feel like a pile on when the club is on the brink of oblivion. The language from the EFL was very much that this would draw a line under things and that we could hopefully move on and rebuild. You may not see it as you track our results because the patchwork squad has done amazing things in very trying circumstances but our squad has been decimated by embargo, contracts expiring of the majority of our senior pros, and cheap vacuuming up of our the young players that we invested in and have brought through the academy. We have not been able to offer contracts to either senior players nor professional contracts to younger players who have left the club now and will continue to do so. The financial impact of all this is immeasurable and even if we survive will take a long long time to get over. You may feel from afar that we need further punishment, but given what I have just outlined we feel that we have been absolutely hammered. 3) Gibson is the bogeyman to Derby fans because in one of our darkest hours since I have supported this club that having been thrown under a bus and bleeding to death in the road that it now appears from a Derby perspective that we have someone who has wandered out of the pub opposite and is loitering to see if he can have our wallet because he thinks he's still owed a round (trying to avoid too much emotive language but that's how it feels). An existential threat to our club is completely pre-occupying Derby fans and you cannot be surprised that this is creating resentment as two wealthy men continue their feud but the club that we have supported through thick and thin just seems to be collateral damage in that ongoing battle of wills. 4) We have a narrow window to try and ensure the survival of this club in its current form not as some phoenix club in god knows what league. It feels that multiple parties don't give a damn about that due to their own agendas are on the brink of ensuring that we are running out of cards to play. In terms of rescuing the club there is precious little to buy apart from a lot of debt and a name so anything that adversely affects the attractiveness of any potential deal if a serious worry. Legal actions on top of punishments handed out by the EFL just feel like the last straw, regardless of when they were originally thought of. We know how we got here, all that fans want now is for an opportunity to climb out of this damned hole and rescue this sometimes infuriating and mostly bloody marvellous club of ours. To do that we need the club to get out of the stranglehold of administration and that means somehow clearing the barriers to a sale. England Ram, Hans Datdo-Dishes, Zag zig and 17 others 7 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, SamUltraRam said: Agreed, but I wonder why Gibson has circulated open letters wanting to know details of things like any administration deal with the HMRC when it is none of his business - & it most certainly is confidential And he shouldn’t be trying to pursue his litigation through the media. Everything about Gibson’s conduct is shameless and unprofessional .. and that’s being polite. Edited February 8, 2022 by PistoldPete Indyram, Jimbo Ram and Kathcairns 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Boycie said: You don’t have to log on to view this forum. That’s a valid point. Someone should have told him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 minute ago, PistoldPete said: Because every other club was paying Hmrc even though they had agreed to defer the payments due to Covid ? And every other club was unable to get a loan via the Efl deal to cover the hmrc payments when they did claim them? No excuses for Morris leaving us in the poo. But you don’t need to like it on so thick. Hmrc May get nothing the way Gibson is carrying on. You missed my point Pete. At what juncture did Morris come out and say that he had racked up a 40 million plus bill with HMRC. So the reasonable inference would be that it was getting paid by him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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