The Administration Thread

[Dimmu]

5 minutes ago, David said:

I have sent another email to the EFL, despite taking yesterday off it’s hard not to let it play on your mind, the more it plays on your mind the more you start to see the bigger picture here and what the EFL mean when they talk about the best interests of the league….

Boro tried to sue the EFL first, Parry confirmed this himself on the Athletic podcast, why did Boro stop those proceedings?

It’s in the EFL’s best interests that Boro are successful in their case against us, why? 

If Boro were to win a legal case against the EFL, where would compensation be paid from? The EFL’s only revenue stream is TV deal, so it would come out the pockets of the clubs, understandable why there is so much silence from other clubs on this.

(Sidenote, we all know that once this is over they will all unanimously vote in new rules that cannot be argued and prevent any kind of legal action.)

If the EFL enforced their own regulations and prevented this action (reg 4.4), or followed insolvency law by ruling they were not football creditors would Boro turn their attentions back on the EFL instead?

When you read the EFL’s “disappointment” when we was cleared on the stadium sale, it’s easy to see why that disappointment would be, found guilty it would have opened the door for Boro to easily claim compensation.

If Derby were to be liquidated, Boro wouldn’t receive a penny of what they believe they are owed, again not a great outcome for the EFL, so what is their best option?…..Try to push Derby into a financial settlement with Boro.

The problem with that is the administrators will simply refuse, their job is to get the best deal for it’s creditors, paying off unproven claims out the creditor pot just isn’t an option for Quantuma despite how much the EFL try to push this.

Clear as day right?

Mel’s offer of taking the legal action on himself is an alternative escape route, one of which the EFL must be desperate to take up now, but can they convince Boro and Wycombe to take this on?

Given we were cleared on the stadium deal, despite the “independent” valuation from the EFL putting Pride Park on par with Fleetwood Towns ground, it’s difficult to see how they could win the case in the high court, especially when Sheffield Wednesday, Reading and Villa all sold their stadiums as well.

Final interesting point, Boro beat Sheffield Wednesday at Hillsborough at the beginning of the season, yet Wednesday went up to the Riverside and beat them 1-0…..a Sheffield Wednesday team that were clearly financially advantaged by selling their stadium right? You could argue those 3 points cost Boro their place in the play offs yet no legal action…..why?

Personal vendetta.

(Now breathe David) 

Just to add a bit... How come EFL support Boro's claims when they have not seen them?

[duncanjwitham]

4 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

His offer makes little sense but I think it’s intended to be read as saying two things:

1 “you’re saying I’ve been a cheat, so put your money where your mouth is and agree to sue me in the High Court. “
 

This is a PR exercise - it’s highly unlikely  that a claim by MFC against MM personally would stick 

2 “you’re victimising DCFC, let them be sold and instead bring your actions against the club against me in the High Court. “

I have no idea what the High Court would do with this bizarre proposal. I’m sure MM doesn’t either and that M/W would be advised it is a whacky ruse more aimed at public opinion than resolution

MM needs to indemnify the club against the claims to allow the club to be sold 

I agree with those 2 things, but I think it's also saying a third.  It's a very public statement of why he won't ever agree to indemnify the club against arbitration losses, because he (rightly or wrongly) doesn't believe in the EFL's arbitration process. He's convinced it's corrupt, so he wants no part of it.

[I know nuffin]

The EFL will not want it to go to the high court where they will not be able to hide their dirty washing. A tribunal aka arbitration only lets out what it wants, the high court is public

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

3 minutes ago, I know nuffin said:

The EFL will not want it to go to the high court where they will not be able to hide their dirty washing. A tribunal aka arbitration only lets out what it wants, the high court is public

Which is the worst for us as it means more of this endless dragging along…

[Day]

Just now, Dimmu said:

Just to add a bit... How come EFL support Boro's claims when they have not seen them?

20th January 2022 - At present, the EFL is not in a position to make a determination as to the status of compensation claims by Middlesbrough and Wycombe under the terms of the EFL’s Articles of Association and/or Insolvency policy

https://www.efl.com/news/2022/january/Derby-county-update/

17th January 2022 - The EFL is aware that the Administrators have also received notice of claims from Wycombe Wanderers FC of a similar nature to those of Middlesbrough FC, but the EFL has not received full details of them.

also

17th January 2022 - The EFL invited each of the Administrators, Middlesbrough FC, and Wycombe Wanderers to make submissions on this point last week, and we are now in the process of reviewing those submissions

https://www.efl.com/news/2022/january/efl-statement-Derby-county/

[ollycutts1982]

14 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I’ve also deleted the first post as out of order .

Having a bad day sorry 

So fed up with the whole thing .

It’s heartbreaking what’s happening and was trying to make the point it’s getting worse not better. 

I want it to go more in the direction of the Stadium being the problem to any sale 

Come on @Curtains pull yourself together.

Sorry couldn't help it.

In all seriousness though I/we all feel what you are feeling and we are all going through this together, very much one step forward and three back. We must all remain positive and try as best we can to not let it get to us too much.

Let us hope that this gets resolved sooner rather than later for all our sake.

As always happy to receive a DM any time night or day if anyone wants an ear to bend.

[RadioactiveWaste]

11 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Confused by your posts and  @i-Ram’s on this topic 

you’re right of course, limited liability protects shareholders not directors. 
 

But suing directors is very difficult and MM has not offered to be sued as a director. 
 

His offer makes little sense but I think it’s intended to be read as saying two things:

1 “you’re saying I’ve been a cheat, so put your money where your mouth is and agree to sue me in the High Court. “
 

This is a PR exercise - it’s highly unlikely  that a claim by MFC against MM personally would stick 

2 “you’re victimising DCFC, let them be sold and instead bring your actions against the club against me in the High Court. “

I have no idea what the High Court would do with this bizarre proposal. I’m sure MM doesn’t either and that M/W would be advised it is a whacky ruse more aimed at public opinion than resolution

MM needs to indemnify the club against the claims to allow the club to be sold 

All of this. Particually the point that MM needs to indemnify the club from the claims - that is the honourable thing for him to do.

[I know nuffin]

17 minutes ago, David said:

I have sent another email to the EFL, despite taking yesterday off it’s hard not to let it play on your mind, the more it plays on your mind the more you start to see the bigger picture here and what the EFL mean when they talk about the best interests of the league….

Boro tried to sue the EFL first, Parry confirmed this himself on the Athletic podcast, why did Boro stop those proceedings?

It’s in the EFL’s best interests that Boro are successful in their case against us, why? 

If Boro were to win a legal case against the EFL, where would compensation be paid from? The EFL’s only revenue stream is TV deal, so it would come out the pockets of the clubs, understandable why there is so much silence from other clubs on this.

(Sidenote, we all know that once this is over they will all unanimously vote in new rules that cannot be argued and prevent any kind of legal action.)

If the EFL enforced their own regulations and prevented this action (reg 4.4), or followed insolvency law by ruling they were not football creditors would Boro turn their attentions back on the EFL instead?

When you read the EFL’s “disappointment” when we was cleared on the stadium sale, it’s easy to see why that disappointment would be, found guilty it would have opened the door for Boro to easily claim compensation.

If Derby were to be liquidated, Boro wouldn’t receive a penny of what they believe they are owed, again not a great outcome for the EFL, so what is their best option?…..Try to push Derby into a financial settlement with Boro.

The problem with that is the administrators will simply refuse, their job is to get the best deal for it’s creditors, paying off unproven claims out the creditor pot just isn’t an option for Quantuma despite how much the EFL try to push this.

Clear as day right?

Mel’s offer of taking the legal action on himself is an alternative escape route, one of which the EFL must be desperate to take up now, but can they convince Boro and Wycombe to take this on?

Given we were cleared on the stadium deal, despite the “independent” valuation from the EFL putting Pride Park on par with Fleetwood Towns ground, it’s difficult to see how they could win the case in the high court, especially when Sheffield Wednesday, Reading and Villa all sold their stadiums as well.

Final interesting point, Boro beat Sheffield Wednesday at Hillsborough at the beginning of the season, yet Wednesday went up to the Riverside and beat them 1-0…..a Sheffield Wednesday team that were clearly financially advantaged by selling their stadium right? You could argue those 3 points cost Boro their place in the play offs yet no legal action…..why?

Personal vendetta.

(Now breathe David) 

 

[kevinhectoring]

32 minutes ago, Curtains said:

No but you are more intelligent than most right 

No. The reason I’m being so gobby is I’ve spent endless days and nights working on situations like this. So I’d be an idiot if I didn’t have a decent handle on what’s going on and I am very frustrated at watching it playing out and reading posts on here.  Experience counts for a lot but I certainly don’t confuse it with intelligence 

[PistoldPete]

38 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

All of the misconduct examples you have listed are criminal offences committed by an individual and are irrelevant of the position they held in the company they worked for. Breaching EFL rules is not a criminal offence. So, I’m not sure you’re comparing apples with apples.

An employee/owner/director can never hide behind the principle of the company being a separate legal entity in these cases.

Maybe the EFL can charge the owners (I don’t know enough about the Sheffield Wednesday case) but that’s a bit different to Middlesbrough and/or Wycombe suing him.

 

 Not all discrimination cases are criminal offences. .. I am talking by analogy about civil cases at Employment Tribunals.. And actually the fact that misconduct case can be brought against any employee only highlights the  Directors especially are exposed to risk of misconduct charges, because they have higher duty of care.

in the football situation. Those extra responsibilities include compliance with EFL rules . Directors can be charged for breaking those rules . And have been. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

I need to get things done this week.

I'm going to jump off the forum until the Hull game.

Take care everyone and hopefully there is some movement in the meantime.

[PistoldPete]

17 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Confused by your posts and  @i-Ram’s on this topic 

you’re right of course, limited liability protects shareholders not directors. 
 

But suing directors is very difficult and MM has not offered to be sued as a director. 
 

His offer makes little sense but I think it’s intended to be read as saying two things:

1 “you’re saying I’ve been a cheat, so put your money where your mouth is and agree to sue me in the High Court. “
 

This is a PR exercise - it’s highly unlikely  that a claim by MFC against MM personally would stick 

2 “you’re victimising DCFC, let them be sold and instead bring your actions against the club against me in the High Court. “

I have no idea what the High Court would do with this bizarre proposal. I’m sure MM doesn’t either and that M/W would be advised it is a whacky ruse more aimed at public opinion than resolution

MM needs to indemnify the club against the claims to allow the club to be sold 

What I have said Kevin is my reading of MFC statement is that Morris has already been charged as a Director. So all he has to do is ask that MFC drop the claim against DCFC… what exactly is the point of it when they already have a claim against Morris as well?

[I know nuffin]

Just now, I know nuffin said:

 

With you all the way BUT  the EFL will fight tooth and nail to keep us to arbitration. If it goes to a public high court and the Boro claim is thrown straight out wouldn't then the rams have a claim on the EFL fit the losses, mental anguish and the like that were caused by the EFL letting Boro go ahead with their stupid claim.

[Curtains]

4 minutes ago, ollycutts1982 said:

Come on @Curtains pull yourself together.

Sorry couldn't help it.

In all seriousness though I/we all feel what you are feeling and we are all going through this together, very much one step forward and three back. We must all remain positive and try as best we can to not let it get to us too much.

Let us hope that this gets resolved sooner rather than later for all our sake.

As always happy to receive a DM any time night or day if anyone wants an ear to bend.

I’m ok mate thanks and lots of people have problems to deal with  but  it’s great you say that to me .

End of the day watching Derby County should be about the football. .

Oh for the days of watching Geoff Barrowcliffe and Jack Parry again lol and pea soupers from Leys and Ewarts at the old Baseball Ground .

Up the Rams. 
 

 

[Tamworthram]

6 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

 Not all discrimination cases are criminal offences. .. I am talking by analogy about civil cases at Employment Tribunals.. And actually the fact that misconduct case can be brought against any employee only highlights the  Directors especially are exposed to risk of misconduct charges, because they have higher duty of care.

in the football situation. Those extra responsibilities include compliance with EFL rules . Directors can be charged for breaking those rules . And have been. 

No sorry. You’re right. I was thinking of abuse not discrimination.

[BathRam72]

7 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I need to get things done this week.

I'm going to jump off the forum until the Hull game.

Take care everyone and hopefully there is some movement in the meantime.

I just had a great movement

[Curtains]

7 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

No. The reason I’m being so gobby is I’ve spent endless days and nights working on situations like this. So I’d be an idiot if I didn’t have a decent handle on what’s going on and I am very frustrated at watching it playing out and reading posts on here.  Experience counts for a lot but I certainly don’t confuse it with intelligence 

I wasn’t being facetious it was just an observation.

I don’t find you gobby but just wanting the best for DCFC as we all do. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

16 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

No. The reason I’m being so gobby is I’ve spent endless days and nights working on situations like this. So I’d be an idiot if I didn’t have a decent handle on what’s going on and I am very frustrated at watching it playing out and reading posts on here.  Experience counts for a lot but I certainly don’t confuse it with intelligence 

Kevin, what is your view on the EFL seemingly ignoring their own  regulation 4.4 and 4.5 (I think) which Mel flagged up. This surely outlaws the claim from Boro against us? 

[i-Ram]

22 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

No. The reason I’m being so gobby is I’ve spent endless days and nights working on situations like this. So I’d be an idiot if I didn’t have a decent handle on what’s going on and I am very frustrated at watching it playing out and reading posts on here.  Experience counts for a lot but I certainly don’t confuse it with intelligence 

What do you do Kevin?

[Ewetube]

14 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

What do you do Kevin?

Don't tell him your name, Pike. ?